Select to expand quoteMobydisc said..
VW gave the customer what they wanted, diesel cars that are economical and has power. As a result it puts out more emissions than it is legally supposed to put out. Unfortunately this means the US government doesn't get what it wants. Who is more important, the customer or the government? Whose interest does the government have close to its heart?
VW could make a car that puts out what its legally supposed to put out but then it would probably not be as powerful and probably not be as reliable. People say the VWs put out 400% more emissions than they are legally supposed to or something like that. So what? The legal emissions are so low that the actual amount over the limit is quite small.
This is just a ploy but the American government to kill diesel cars in America because American car makers don't know how make diesel cars and are not interested in learning how. So they want the government to kill their opposition.
I'm no VW fanboi, I never owned one and from what I've read and heard about their reliability, I don't plan to buy one.
Yep. Every second car here is a hybrid, and they're crap, but the industry has SO much invested in the technology...
So how about owners who are currently trying to sell or trade in their VW diesel cars. Up Scheisen creek without a paddle 
Select to expand quoterockmagnet said..
So how about owners who are currently trying to sell or trade in their VW diesel cars. Up Scheisen creek without a paddle
Why? Are the cars using more fuel, putting out less power or are less reliable than a month ago? So what if they don't meet an arbitrary limit set by the U.S. Government? As long as you ain't sucking on the exhaust you should be okay.
Everyone knows diesels are dirty and stinky. Why is there this big fuss about it? If I was the boss of VW I'd call it as it is. I'd ask why the U.S. Government did not as big a deal about GM Motors making cars with faulty ignitions that lead to deaths of many Americans. Is it because the G in GM may as well stand for Government?
Select to expand quoteMobydisc said..rockmagnet said..
So how about owners who are currently trying to sell or trade in their VW diesel cars. Up Scheisen creek without a paddle
Why? Are the cars using more fuel, putting out less power or are less reliable than a month ago? So what if they don't meet an arbitrary limit set by the U.S. Government? As long as you ain't sucking on the exhaust you should be okay.
Everyone knows diesels are dirty and stinky. Why is there this big fuss about it? If I was the boss of VW I'd call it as it is. I'd ask why the U.S. Government did not as big a deal about GM Motors making cars with faulty ignitions that lead to deaths of many Americans. Is it because the G in GM may as well stand for Government?
Simply because vehicles sold in the USA need to meet their emission requirements, VW couldn't, got caught fiddling the books and now are going to have a very large stick taken to them. As the media reports, its a great test case to see if the US justice department is serious about pursuing corporate crime.
Select to expand quoteMobydisc said..rockmagnet said..
So how about owners who are currently trying to sell or trade in their VW diesel cars. Up Scheisen creek without a paddle
Why? Are the cars using more fuel, putting out less power or are less reliable than a month ago? So what if they don't meet an arbitrary limit set by the U.S. Government? As long as you ain't sucking on the exhaust you should be okay.
Everyone knows diesels are dirty and stinky. Why is there this big fuss about it? If I was the boss of VW I'd call it as it is. I'd ask why the U.S. Government did not as big a deal about GM Motors making cars with faulty ignitions that lead to deaths of many Americans. Is it because the G in GM may as well stand for Government?
Basically the cars are on the road illegally and probably won't be able to be reregisterd to new owners until they comply with emissions standards.
It's BS. Basically the cars are fine except they don't meet a standard set by the government that has nothing to with safety. I don't own one so it does not worry me one way or another but it seems like standards have been set that are impossible to meet, witness Mazda basically giving up on selling diesel cars in America. Meanwhile GM are happily churning out hybrid cars and have spent little time or effort to produce diesel cars.
i have a diesel powered vehicle, not a VW which is close to 20 years old. I'm pretty sure it puts out more noxious gasses than a new VW.
VW always had the option to not sell diesels into that market, they took a punt and lost. I have zero sympathy for them and hope they make an example of them.
Mobydik do you not understand the concept of premeditated deception of a whole ****ing nation for capital gain ****ing scumbags
Out of curiosity, would anyone reading this who would have bought a VW, now NOT buy a VW as a result of this?
I have a VW and an Audi (not diesels) and if they got nicked I'd probably buy the same brands immediately, assuming they represented he best car / $.
Not that this is relevant, but as it happens they both were nicked last week, but the cops have found them and they are giving them back once fixed - unfortunately.
Your argument is two wrongs make a right and lying is clever if you get away with it, is this how you do business?
Select to expand quoteAUS1111 said..
Out of curiosity, would anyone reading this who would have bought a VW, now NOT buy a VW as a result of this?
I have a VW and an Audi (not diesels) and if they got nicked I'd probably buy the same brands immediately, assuming they represented he best car / $.
Not that this is relevant, but as it happens they both were nicked last week, but the cops have found them and they are giving them back once fixed - unfortunately.
It seems we've had quite a week of it 
Select to expand quotedjt91184 said..
Your argument is two wrongs make a right and lying is clever if you get away with it, is this how you do business?
You do business by giving the customer what they want. VW gave the customer a diesel car that is reasonably powerful and economical. However this means it puts out more emissions than the government wants. Who is more important, the customer or the government? Clearly in this case it appears to be the government is more important so in the future VW and other companies will have to produce cars the government wants, cars that are not as powerful, not as economical but do put out the mandated emissions.
Select to expand quoterockmagnet said...
So how about owners who are currently trying to sell or trade in their VW diesel cars. Up Scheisen creek without a paddle
Maybe not, a company such as vw would honour no matter who owns the car, no mention on the vehicules actual emissions - the gadget, I reckon it's still better back to back than most, vw are still a great car, the yanks would be keen to bad mouth the worlds leading brand , to improve their own manufacturing, think about it
Mobdisc, I don't think you understand how regulations/government/democracy works..
The government (is meant to) represent the majority of its population. The fact that the regulations are in place indicates that the majority of US citizens (also customers) didn't want cars on their roads that put out such high emissions. Unless there is an unlikely negative correlation between people voting in past and current governments and VW buyers, then the majority of customers actually wanted an economical car that has power AND complied with regulations. VW cheated the majority of the population via deceptive conduct and that same population implicitly wants such actions to be punished (since laws exist that punish misleading and deceptive conduct).
The legal emissions are low for a reason. When you multiply the small limit by a large number of cars you start to have a big problem.
You think that the government is meant to represent the majority opinion of its population? In that case we would have the death penalty.
As any petrol head knows, emission regulations are just nanny state overreach.
The thing here is the pious attitude of all condemning VW, which is disgusting.
The damn Govt bends rules (and sometimes breaks them) to suit themselves or their big business mates all the time.
Any Govt criticising VW for their clever way of appearing to follow the rules but actually not, is dead set hypocritical.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
The thing here is the pious attitude of all condemning VW, which is disgusting.
The damn Govt bends rules (and sometimes breaks them) to suit themselves or their big business mates all the time.
Any Govt criticising VW for their clever way of appearing to follow the rules but actually not, is dead set hypocritical.
the only real and fair will be ...democracy
Leave those VW as is with tumble/ toggle switch.Each driver now could decide if:
a) want to be green friendly, keep the pollution at min ( scarify performance of the engine and increase Co2 and fuel consumption same time)
or
b)switch to economy mode and release power at same time at the cost of releasing laughing gases.
Alternatively if they (government) want to be really credible ban instantly nitro's bottle boosters and all car racing instantly.
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
You think that the government is meant to represent the majority opinion of its population? In that case we would have the death penalty.
As any petrol head knows, emission regulations are just nanny state overreach.
Rubbish, go to China and ask yourself if "emission regulations are just nanny state overreach"
Select to expand quoteAUS1111 said..
Out of curiosity, would anyone reading this who would have bought a VW, now NOT buy a VW as a result of this?
I have a VW and an Audi (not diesels) and if they got nicked I'd probably buy the same brands immediately, assuming they represented he best car / $.
Not that this is relevant, but as it happens they both were nicked last week, but the cops have found them and they are giving them back once fixed - unfortunately.
Probably not. The govt regulators would have never approved them for import...
Tell you what tho. My wife has a vw 2L turbo diesel. It's by far the nicest car iv ever driven, and it's super fast, I mean real fast. I was blown away at how quick it is. As for the emissions, kind of sicks they did this, but look at the result.
Fun fact- live stock produce more harmful greenhouse gases then cars.
Greenhouse emissions aren't the issue here. It's the NOx emissions that were deceptively released into the atmosphere. Up to 35 times the amount that was allowed for by US regulations! The concept of deception seems to be lost on a few posters.http://www3.epa.gov/airquality/nitrogenoxides/health.html
"
NOx react with ammonia, moisture, and other compounds to form small particles. These small particles penetrate deeply into sensitive parts of the lungs and can cause or worsen respiratory disease, such as emphysema and bronchitis, and can aggravate existing heart disease, leading to increased hospital admissions and premature death."
The NOx coming out the tailpipe of a modern VW (35 times what we first thought) is invisible at first but later transforms to produce photochemical smog.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smog
"
Photochemical smog was first described in the 1950s. It is the chemical reaction of sunlight, nitrogen oxides and volatile organic compounds in the atmosphere, which leaves airborne particles and ground-level ozone.[14] This noxious mixture of air pollutants may include the following:AldehydesNitrogen oxides, such as nitrogen dioxidePeroxyacyl nitratesTropospheric ozoneVolatile organic compoundsAll of these harsh chemicals are usually highly reactive and oxidizing. Photochemical smog is therefore considered to be a problem of modern industrialization. It is present in all modern cities, but it is more common in cities with sunny, warm, dry climates and a large number of motor vehicles.[15] Because it travels with the wind, it can affect sparsely populated areas as well."
I live 50 km south of Sydney but often can see the smog drifting out across the ocean. Now I know VW Golfs are a major culprit. Who would have thought?
I will be interested if somebody tested ever our power tools motors for emission.
From mower to auger. I am pretty sure that mine doesn't met even XIX emission standards.
So only electrification is the solution. How soon we could see Electric VW on the streets ?
www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/e-golf
Australia has one of the biggest lithium deposits on the planet.
Could new government throw some money to support electric automobile industry ? If building battery manufacturing plant here is too ambitious for Aussie, or we need again keep sending raw materials overseas to come back to us as finished product?
Tesla battery manufacturer gigafactory didn't cost more then 5 bln and is the biggest in the world. Taking into account that our Stock market could loose
50 bln in one day, we should be afford to build similar.
Select to expand quotesotired said..
How long does it take you to go through 60 litres of petrol in your mower or auger?
I am sure that my gargen power tools like mower and augers do not exceed norms 40 times but 4000x fold that poor VW.I one weekend mowing or auger drilling we could assimilate more toxins that driving whole week on the road.All this once enjoying "healthy" work around garden or home.
I don't know what the fuss is about, VW said they could have power AND economy but they didn't say at the same time 
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..sotired said..
How long does it take you to go through 60 litres of petrol in your mower or auger?
I am sure that my gargen power tools like mower and augers do not exceed norms 40 times but 4000x fold that poor VW.I one weekend mowing or auger drilling we could assimilate more toxins that driving whole week on the road.All this once enjoying "healthy" work around garden or home.
How are you sure of that?
Do you have petrol power tools or diesel ones?
Again, one hour of mowing probably uses a couple of litres of fuel, and a couple of hours of driving probably uses 20 litres of fuel. I drive a lot more each week than I mow.
Regardless, defending VW is silly. The rules were there for all to meet, and they had a choice to meet them or not. Not a choice to defeat the testing mechanism. Surely the power and fuel economy values affect how many people buy their cars, so they have been lying. Period.
Even if you burn 20 litres of diesel in a bonfire every afternoon, you still can't get away from the fact that they lied and competed with other suppliers on an un-level playing field.
I wonder what the response would be if it was Holden that was found to do this. There would be outrage!
