It is great to see Kiteboarding/Kitesurfing/foiling evolve. Each discipline offers its own rush. Those that love to jump, surf and freestyle and then those that love to head off into the sunset. The main issue we have to deal with is for everyone to stay safe and respect all the beach and waterways users. We must protect what we have as the sport evolves. Know your limitations, respect the rules, and don't go out any further than you are prepared to swim in I think is still a very solid consideration. but most of all bring on innovation and development and engage/support the younger generation.
Select to expand quotePlummet said..dbabicwa said..
Now you are in 0.1% which proves what exactly?
You asked for pictures of high wind and jumping so i provided it. What does it prove?
That the things that you said won't happen are happening by people around the world
If this old worn out kook can then anyone can,
Hell, I'm lucky if I foil once a month at the moment. I'm by no means in the top 0.1% by any level,
Rubbish mate.
I am 50yo, and I would never ever say if I can do a 720 and land it every time, anyone can.
You do realise that your words were a "lonely Pete"? Now you are trying to prove that foiling will bring more kiters, and you are still a lonely Pete?
A bit contradicting....Just watch the end of kitesurfing as you knew it. God, am I the only one seeing obscene HF board prices, which only function is foiling, no fins, straps or nothing.
And that's only a board. Plus, add a good few wings per kiter, plus good few kites (foil kites included). Plus, a TT, SB and whatever else floats your boat if you still using it. Cheap as chips. Not.
Everyone can see how efficient foils are there awsome, in 25knts maybe other things are more suited, but there will always be people going for next level foil air flip tricks but thats personal preference, jumping on a foil would be exact timing like a front flip on a moto
Select to expand quotedbabicwa said..eppo said..dbabicwa said..
Absolutely with OP.
To all foilers, please post a pic with your JUMPS, which is a basic TT skill.
No pics? Ah well...Before you *jump* into conclusions, I do foil.
Some people are unable to jump on TT or SB, and that's ok. Show us something else than.
Oh, and high wind foiling? Or RedBull King of Air? It won't happen.
I am a little confused on what you are asking for and why ?
If I want to jump get on my TT with a 10m rebel in 25 to 30 knots.
If I want to foil then I foil....
Sorry Epp,
I thought Plumm wrote this.
Why? Because we need a TT and SB riders to please the crowd. The same crowd who buys gear b/c they got exited watching you doing your stuff on a TT which you are NOT doing on a HF.
AFL does not need a crowd for survival?
How's that?
You yourself had a rant about a TWIN TIP rider who was jumping and cleaned up some tourists . How is that getting non riders excited about trying kiting ????????????????????????????????? I don't know how much sand is in your vag!na about foilriders but it seems you have half the beach in there . So ****** what if someone doesn't post pictures just to prove a point to you . I've seen people like andrew cooksey and alty frisby smashing it in high winds, me myself no **** that . Foils can be scary as **** when you're ripping along let alone in big lumpy water . Plenty of guys jump all the time like andrew chilcott over at melville . Move along
Select to expand quotedbabicwa said..Plummet said..dbabicwa said..
Now you are in 0.1% which proves what exactly?
You asked for pictures of high wind and jumping so i provided it. What does it prove?
That the things that you said won't happen are happening by people around the world
If this old worn out kook can then anyone can,
Hell, I'm lucky if I foil once a month at the moment. I'm by no means in the top 0.1% by any level,
Rubbish mate.
I am 50yo, and I would never ever say if I can do a 720 and land it every time, anyone can.
You do realise that your words were a "lonely Pete"? Now you are trying to prove that foiling will bring more kiters, and you are still a lonely Pete?
A bit contradicting....Just watch the end of kitesurfing as you knew it. God, am I the only one seeing obscene HF board prices, which only function is foiling, no fins, straps or nothing.
And that's only a board. Plus, add a good few wings per kiter, plus good few kites (foil kites included). Plus, a TT, SB and whatever else floats your boat if you still using it. Cheap as chips. Not.
Yes. Yes you are the only one seeing obscene prices.
..oh I get it. You buy cheap, **** gear 
My TT was only a couple hundred less than my foil board, but I'm used to primo boards now -- can't go back to a cheap as chips one.
I also only have three kites now, and probably only need two.
And think of the savings on straps!
Select to expand quoteajohnc said..
Everyone can see how efficient foils are there awsome, in 25knts maybe other things are more suited, but there will always be people going for next level foil air flip tricks but thats personal preference, jumping on a foil would be exact timing like a front flip on a moto
A guy here is riding Peak 4 kites on his foil, uses a 5m for light wind, a 4 or 3m over 25 knots. Total cost for the three Peaks is probably less than a big Contra or Zephyr and bar...
Select to expand quotedbabicwa said..
Absolutely with OP.
To all foilers, please post a pic with your JUMPS, which is a basic TT skill.
No pics? Ah well...Before you *jump* into conclusions, I do foil.
Some people are unable to jump on TT or SB, and that's ok. Show us something else than.
Oh, and high wind foiling? Or RedBull King of Air? It won't happen.
Jumping is easy. So are 720s. Get heaps more air than a TT in the same wind.
Still trying to figure out how to take the board with me though...
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..ajohnc said..
Everyone can see how efficient foils are there awsome, in 25knts maybe other things are more suited, but there will always be people going for next level foil air flip tricks but thats personal preference, jumping on a foil would be exact timing like a front flip on a moto
A guy here is riding Peak 4 kites on his foil, uses a 5m for light wind, a 4 or 3m over 25 knots. Total cost for the three Peaks is probably less than a big Contra or Zephyr and bar...
What happens if the Peak hits the water? Just curious, I know nothing about single skins.
Foiling is great bang for your buck.
the rare times you go back to Slappers means you can sell your new Tt and just pull out the oldie goldie.
one bar with two line lengths and a single 8m kite has you on water from about 11kts to mid 30's
my one Foil now bolts to a convertible foil board that can take some fins and be a hoot in waves.
it also bolts to my windsurfer Sup and prone board
Windfoil with two sails one boom 2 masts all circa 2004.
stick on my std Spitfire wings and it's jump city
go out with boat and wake Foil or tow in.
i see all that action for overall outlay as brilliant
Just do what makes you happy , me surfed for nearly 50 years ,kited for 19 and just cant get away from wanting to feel the wave and the ocean under my board , to me that is what surfing is the feel of the water under your board be it kiting or surfing
Have many friends that have gone to foiling both on kites and just surfing, they say they like it but still doesnt have that wave feel under your foil like a surfboard does
My take is if you like it do it , just be on the water having fun
oh and stay out of my way on the waves as i have yet to see anyfoil come out of a barrell in one piece
Select to expand quotebearbusa said..
...
Have many friends that have gone to foiling both on kites and just surfing, they say they like it but still doesnt have that wave feel under your foil like a surfboard does
...
I'm not sure about that. After foiling, kiting in chop is tedious pounding. The windsurfers call it "slapping".
Riding a foil is like having your own personal 1m glassy wave face to play with. You can use the height of the foil to drop in and accelerate and do fully banked carving turns. The foil can filter out all the chop and amplify the underlying swell.
Even better, dropping into a 1m piece of wind swell is like dropping in to a 2m wave face (not really, but near enough and you need to do it on a higher performance foil).
What is particularly nice when doing a foiling downwinder (after doing the upwinder which is also fun), is when you find a nice peak you can hit that one peak again and again and again until you get tired. The upwind performance is so good you just point the nose to the start of the section and ride back to play with wave after wave.
While I mention it, blasting upwind is fantastic. Your upwind speed is actually higher than downwind. You can line up the front of a swell then carve down the back of it and do it all at warp speed. There's a beautiful balancing act getting your weight forward and loading the front wing. You get in a bit of a "soul arch" position and just fly across the water.
Lining up a piece of chop to carve a jump on a foil is fantastic. The size of the jump is out of proportion to the wind and the size of the wave. A higher performance foil makes this fantastic "schwoooop" noise as you slice off the top of the wave.
I don't think I would pass up a session on a surfboard in clean ocean surf, but all the other pretend kite surfing that goes on in chop is far eclipsed by carving around on a foil.
Foiling is just another aspect or dimension you can enjoy.
I still go boosting, trickery on my TT and still love slash on a SB in waves.
Its not just one or the other.
You can get a foil for and below the price of a new kite so I don't know it could be considered expensive.
and this is what it possible if you have the balls...
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..bearbusa said..
...
Have many friends that have gone to foiling both on kites and just surfing, they say they like it but still doesnt have that wave feel under your foil like a surfboard does
...
I'm not sure about that. After foiling, kiting in chop is tedious pounding. The windsurfers call it "slapping".
Riding a foil is like having your own personal 1m glassy wave face to play with. You can use the height of the foil to drop in and accelerate and do fully banked carving turns. The foil can filter out all the chop and amplify the underlying swell.
Even better, dropping into a 1m piece of wind swell is like dropping in to a 2m wave face (not really, but near enough and you need to do it on a higher performance foil).
What is particularly nice when doing a foiling downwinder (after doing the upwinder which is also fun), is when you find a nice peak you can hit that one peak again and again and again until you get tired. The upwind performance is so good you just point the nose to the start of the section and ride back to play with wave after wave.
While I mention it, blasting upwind is fantastic. Your upwind speed is actually higher than downwind. You can line up the front of a swell then carve down the back of it and do it all at warp speed. There's a beautiful balancing act getting your weight forward and loading the front wing. You get in a bit of a "soul arch" position and just fly across the water.
Lining up a piece of chop to carve a jump on a foil is fantastic. The size of the jump is out of proportion to the wind and the size of the wave. A higher performance foil makes this fantastic "schwoooop" noise as you slice off the top of the wave.
I don't think I would pass up a session on a surfboard in clean ocean surf, but all the other pretend kite surfing that goes on in chop is far eclipsed by carving around on a foil.
Gorgo
each to their own , wind swells and chop are not wave riding , although maybe fun at times when there is no swell
riding a 1 meter swell is nothing like droping into a 2m wave , you have really got to be joking
In all my years wave riding is riding actual formed waves the rest is just cruising around on chop and wind swells ,nothing wrong with that if that whats get you off
And for you you to say that all the other pretend kiting is far eclipesed by carving around on a foil is of course is your opinion only , im sure many kitesurfers that have been doing it for the last 20years might disagree with you
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Foiling is just another aspect or dimension you can enjoy.
I still go boosting, trickery on my TT and still love slash on a SB in waves.
Its not just one or the other.
You can get a foil for and below the price of a new kite so I don't know it could be considered expensive.
and this is what it possible if you have the balls...
Well said Eppo
Just enjoy the the water always , everyone has their preference ,mine is waves not for everyone
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Foiling is just another aspect or dimension you can enjoy.
I still go boosting, trickery on my TT and still love slash on a SB in waves.
Its not just one or the other.
You can get a foil for and below the price of a new kite so I don't know it could be considered expensive.
and this is what it possible if you have the balls...
Yes,
we've seen this many times. But are YOU doing it?
No, you got it wrong, there are many in here who claim they sold a TT. Then they claim it's cheap as chips but they purchased a brand new foil kite. Plus at least a few inflatables.
They also claim the TT riding is sooooooooooooo backward once started foiling.
This is their claim, not mine.
Select to expand quotedbabicwa said..eppo said..
Foiling is just another aspect or dimension you can enjoy.
I still go boosting, trickery on my TT and still love slash on a SB in waves.
Its not just one or the other.
You can get a foil for and below the price of a new kite so I don't know it could be considered expensive.
and this is what it possible if you have the balls...
Yes,
we've seen this many times. But are YOU doing it?
No, you got it wrong, there are many in here who claim they sold a TT. Then they claim it's cheap as chips but they purchased a brand new foil kite. Plus at least a few inflatables.
They also claim the TT riding is sooooooooooooo backward once started foiling.
This is their claim, not mine.
Give us more cow bell dbabicwa!
There's not enough cow bell!
That's funny Plummet.
How is your mutant going?
How about posting MORE landboarding pics of yourself on this forum? It is about yourself most of the time, is it not?
"If this old worn out kook can then anyone can, " - please tell us more, what else you have in your disposal? Some nice bike riding?
Let's see, a bit of digging and BANG:
"
As Plummet says, lonely Nigel
This is true. there are 2.2 foilers at my local. But my local is challenging with high winds, big swell, shore break and subsurface boulders and rocks. It's not for the faint hearted. But i go to the east coast where the swell is smaller and theres foils all over the place. I'm not just talking on kiteboards., sup foils, windsurf foils, E foils, surf foils. Lets face it. Foils are here to stay. They wont ever be main stream due to the challenges learning. But for the select few they will bring big grins."
"
" plummet ? Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:39 am
The best and worst thing about hydrofoiling in a location where there are very few foilers is that when the wind is light you are nigel no mates.
Discuss!"
Plummet's words. This are your words right? So, again, it is about you. Selected ONE.
No as I said I ride strapless on my foil, same as a SB. If I want to go big I get in my TT with lots of power. I do enjoy though a good old TT bump and jump session in the surf.
Im prettt confident I could jump on a foil if I so chose to. Been doing this a long time now. But alas my stomach muscles are getting more and more prone to shearing or ruption. So I am avoiding having that much weight hanging off my body.
Its not what is best, it's what you want to explore. TT riding is by no means backwards if you ride at a certain level.
Just enjoy and id avoid talking about something you haven't even done.
also Gorgo is bang on. I see so many SB riders bashing and crashing through tiny slop or fat ass waves you would surf on normally. What's the point?....apart from training yourself for the big stuff with cross off conditions. 
Gonna have so much fun on a 1-2 foot ****ty wave on a foil. Or a big fat 3-4 foot wave that is hardly worth riding a SB on.
If the waves are on though ... get out the SB for sure !!! But if the wind is too light then a foil is a great secondary option and just as fun but in a very different way.
Ep,
did you read this on page 1: "No pics? Ah well...Before you *jump* into conclusions,I do foil."
This discussion is not about you or me, but the claim that "Foiling is going to lead to the end of kitesurfing".
As said, do we need a TT crowd? No one dares to answer that. Not even you.
Since no one knows the answer, and "is a serious issue with foiling that needs to be addressed" the easiest is to say "avoid talking about something you haven't even done."
Plus, by reading I would say you have a few foil wings. How is that cheap is unknown to me.
I've had enough. Bye..
Select to expand quotedjdojo said..Kamikuza said..ajohnc said..
Everyone can see how efficient foils are there awsome, in 25knts maybe other things are more suited, but there will always be people going for next level foil air flip tricks but thats personal preference, jumping on a foil would be exact timing like a front flip on a moto
A guy here is riding Peak 4 kites on his foil, uses a 5m for light wind, a 4 or 3m over 25 knots. Total cost for the three Peaks is probably less than a big Contra or Zephyr and bar...
What happens if the Peak hits the water? Just curious, I know nothing about single skins.
You relaunch it Guy here has yet to get his wet. You simply can't front stall them, you can haul the thing to the ground by pulling in the front lines. They drift like nothing else, and while you won't be jumping with them, they pull well.
My first foil set including shipping cost less than my TT.
My other wing cos the same as TT straps.
I think a few of you are missing the point of what the op said.
FOILING LOOKS BORING and who's going to spend a heap of money to get into a sport that LOOKS BORING.
You have all explained very well that it isn't but that doesn't change the fact that what 99.9% of spectators are seeing looks like people mowing the lawn.
Yes we still need twintips as watching people do huge airs and powered tricks makes people go 'wow I want to try that!'
Unfortunately you hardly see anyone doing a decent boost anymore, 20 knots seems to equal a 9m kite these days when it used to be a12.No one wants to be in the fun zone of being overpowered.
The real growth area for newbies is still the surf area, I've got a heap of mates that want to give it a go and it's all about the surf.
What I have seen in Melbourne A lot are going out racing which looks quite impressive if you are into it Also the crew that just won't to try something new Which some have mastered and end back on SB boards ,Older crew who just won't to get out and enjoy mowing the lawn I have not noticed younger crew they are on TT and SB And like me something new to learn but just on light wind days Still SB in
stronger wind It can be 2ft Or 8ft , if there is something to hit I am out there
Select to expand quotedbabicwa said..
That's funny Plummet.
How is your mutant going?
How about posting MORE landboarding pics of yourself on this forum? It is about yourself most of the time, is it not?
"If this old worn out kook can then anyone can, " - please tell us more, what else you have in your disposal? Some nice bike riding?
Let's see, a bit of digging and BANG:
"
As Plummet says, lonely Nigel
This is true. there are 2.2 foilers at my local. But my local is challenging with high winds, big swell, shore break and subsurface boulders and rocks. It's not for the faint hearted. But i go to the east coast where the swell is smaller and theres foils all over the place. I'm not just talking on kiteboards., sup foils, windsurf foils, E foils, surf foils. Lets face it. Foils are here to stay. They wont ever be main stream due to the challenges learning. But for the select few they will bring big grins."
"
" plummet ? Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:39 am
The best and worst thing about hydrofoiling in a location where there are very few foilers is that when the wind is light you are nigel no mates.
Discuss!"
Plummet's words. This are your words right? So, again, it is about you. Selected ONE.
That's good cowbell!
Did you say biking pictures?
Ask and ye shall receive!
Select to expand quotestoff said..
I think a few of you are missing the point of what the op said.
FOILING LOOKS BORING and who's going to spend a heap of money to get into a sport that LOOKS BORING.
You have all explained very well that it isn't but that doesn't change the fact that what 99.9% of spectators are seeing looks like people mowing the lawn.
Got it right there! It's not about having a go and seeing what it really feels like, it's about having an opinion of what it looks like and basing everything on that. Who needs reality when opinions will do
I think it's a bit sad that opinions can overwhelm what actual practitioners of foiling and other fun activities are saying. If you really want to experience life and the wonders that it can hold, don't keep asking for the opinions and approval of others, just f**king do it! Whether you succeed or fail your life will be way richer. BTW this generally applies to most aspects of life. No risk, no reward, if you never have a go, you'll never ever know etc.
Also you don't need to spend a heap of money to get into foiling. Read some reviews of previous years models, find one which you thinks suits you and look for it second hand. Many easy to ride & learn on foils and boards come on the market relatively cheaply as their owners gravitate to a more specific foil for waves, racing etc. (As I sell foil gear I'm losing money right here, but it's what I would do as a tightarse). Also there's a guy at my local around 70 yo who not only foils really well, he made his own foil and board out of wood, and fiberglass! He rips! Must have cost all of $2-$300.
And to our friendly troll on this forum and others, dbabicwa, who asks"do we need a TT crowd? No one dares to answer that. Not even you."I dare to answer
Who gives a flying f**k about a crowd. If you need a crowd to validate what you do, go and audition for a reality TV show.
There's something inexplicable about the sports we do which involve wind, water and waves. Something about the interaction creates stoke as well as a deep connection with the forces of nature. Foiling connects with these forces a bit differently, the smoothness and silence is pretty cool but the ability to feel and surf even small waves is a great bonus. Sure it may look like your mowing the lawn at times but if you haven't experienced the feeling you can't judge it.
And one other thing, learning to foil isn't easy. That rules out a lot of people right there. You've got to spend the time looking like a complete kook and you may injure yourself. But like life, the more you put in the more you get out.
Thats enough cliches, just have fun, Dave
I agree with above poster.
you try foiling because of the possibilities you see in it.
then the challenges of doing it suck you in or spit you out.
Get those first stable flights and most of us are hooked.
It wasn't that long ago, most of us were bagging foil kites as "pillows" and "doonahs". Now everyone wants one.
