Rope slider with hook

Been contemplating for a long while to come up with/find a good design rope slider that incorporates a hook.

Came up with this collaboration... the Mystic Dynabar...

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Adoy said..
Been contemplating for a long while to come up with/find a good design rope slider that incorporates a hook.

Came up with this collaboration... the Mystic Dynabar...

Featuring auto accidental unhook - especially when launching.
Mainly caused by the centering bungee, because it pulls the hook up. You don't actually need the centering function, but when first switching to a slider from a hook it can help to get used to the setup.
Very hard to hook back into if you do unhook?

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snalberski said..
What's the advantage over the normal Dynabar?

I don't like the way the spreader bar connects to the harness with those bent rod/wire clips, prefer the mystic click in connection.

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snalberski said..
What's the advantage over the normal Dynabar?

Don't have to pay the $100 for shipping?

Maybe the Mystic Stealth bar?
No real hook, but similar functionality

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KPSS Used said..
We were the importers and distributors for Dynabar since Mario started, he has an illness of some sort now and is trying to sell. We always suspected other brands would jump on the idea of the slider spreader and our experience is that the Mystic Stealth is the winner and they have other options too.

Just because you have not experienced unintentional unhooking does not mean its not an issue for less experienced riders we saw so many over the years. It was easy to prevent, just hold the chicken loop with tension on the hook until the kite lines become tensioned, but people either forget or they are slow learners maybe? The bungee lifting the hook up definitely assisted the chicken loop to come off the hook even if the donkey dick was engaged.

We still have most of the spare parts including the bungees if you want the original?

Saw that on Facebook, sorry to hear eh.

So the same people would probably have their CL fall out of a fixed hook too because they didn't pay enough attention to it The last few years, Jay was assembling the hooks "upside down" to help out those who don't check their CL before they launch...

Done with the bungy now. I'd be more interested in a Mystic Stealth bar but sliding the CL on the raw rope I just don't like the idea of, and going through the ring is just as bad. And there's no ability to install a second rope for the leash. The problem with the Dynabar is I trash the spreader bar pad on a regular basis, and I prefer to carry the hook knife in the pad. So unless you have the pads cheap...?

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Kamikuza said..

KPSS Used said..
We were the importers and distributors for Dynabar since Mario started, he has an illness of some sort now and is trying to sell. We always suspected other brands would jump on the idea of the slider spreader and our experience is that the Mystic Stealth is the winner and they have other options too.

Just because you have not experienced unintentional unhooking does not mean its not an issue for less experienced riders we saw so many over the years. It was easy to prevent, just hold the chicken loop with tension on the hook until the kite lines become tensioned, but people either forget or they are slow learners maybe? The bungee lifting the hook up definitely assisted the chicken loop to come off the hook even if the donkey dick was engaged.

We still have most of the spare parts including the bungees if you want the original?

Saw that on Facebook, sorry to hear eh.

So the same people would probably have their CL fall out of a fixed hook too because they didn't pay enough attention to it The last few years, Jay was assembling the hooks "upside down" to help out those who don't check their CL before they launch...

Done with the bungy now. I'd be more interested in a Mystic Stealth bar but sliding the CL on the raw rope I just don't like the idea of, and going through the ring is just as bad. And there's no ability to install a second rope for the leash. The problem with the Dynabar is I trash the spreader bar pad on a regular basis, and I prefer to carry the hook knife in the pad. So unless you have the pads cheap...?

Yeah probably, its a thing that can happen with fixed hooks for sure and we have all probably had it happen once? Most learn to hold the chicken loop until there is line tension to keep it on the hook, some don't get onto this as quickly.
I'm using a stealth bar it has around 300+ hrs on it and I am yet to change the rope, but I'm using a Ronstan pulley block with a rotating D shackle to which I attach a forged 30mm SS ring and I put my chicken loop through that. A younger stronger heavier friend went through the pulley in 6 months though and he has switched to the Ronstan rope guide and thats lasting really well. He leaves the ring on the rope and attached his leash to that.
For my rope I use 5mm spectra with a 3mm spectra core that I splice inside the 5mm, works well saved a big mate of mine last week he broke through the 5mm while out foiling and was able to ride back to the beach safely just on the 3mm inner section.
I don't think I have any spreader bar pads left but will find out.

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Adoy said..
Been contemplating for a long while to come up with/find a good design rope slider that incorporates a hook.

Came up with this collaboration... the Mystic Dynabar...

three words:

Low
Friction
Slider

No moving parts
Only one part
Less wear on your slider rope

Over a decade ago I came up with something similar (see pics). That plastic clip on the first pic functioned as a donkey dick. I am still using the same system but with a slide specific chicken loop.

Just get a couple of 8mm hole drilled to the two end of a traditional metal bar, tide an 8mm spectra or dynema into them. It takes an outrageous 10 minutes and you are ready.

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Kamikuza said..

KPSS Used said..
The 11" Dynabar and the Stealth 280mm have a similar range of motion although you are correct the Dynabar is by far the one with the widest side to side range of movement (and probably some of that is not needed).

The Oh shiz release ball has caused numerous flyaway kites so we advised everyone to remove it and still stand by that. You have a perfectly good release on the chicken loop and you definitely do not need the poorly designed dynabar release. Would you really be able to find that ball upside down underwater while getting dragged at speed? Doubt it.

Sure it's needed. 13in Dynabar is much more comfortable than the 11, especially when foiling, especially toe side.

I've never heard of such a thing. With harnesses that use pull-down straps I make sure the ball isn't bound up under the strap ... but then I also make sure that the hook knife is accessible and my CL is actually hooked in when I launch. Perhaps I'm just overly cautious...

I've kept the red ball release on because I have actually had events where the QR was ineffective, and being able to ditch the hook would have been less stressful than fighting lines out from under it.

And having the second rope on the Dynabar means I can still get home.

Not a sexy setup, but very functional.

The Dynabar 13" spreader was designed for bigger guys because they need a wider spreader bar to fit their harness properly and that makes sense that you like the 13" because you are a bigger lump of human than average.
I saw it happen in front of me with one of my mates and he was a very experienced kiter, somehow it had worked its way loose and released. We had a couple of other reports of it happening so we advised everyone to remove it, the design is very simple and it can easily come loose if the rider is not checking it regularly.
I've been rolled in the surf in decent sized waves many times and my chicken loop QR has always saved my bacon. I know where it is with my eyes closed upside down and under water because I use it every time I kite to self land. I cannot imagine trying to find that ball thats tucked into the side of the spreader bar in an emergency.
You are experienced and smart enough to know which things need to be checked prior to launch.
It would not be too hard to put a second rope on a Mystic Stealth bar, but I prefer to splice a secondary rope inside the primary and have been doing this for about 5-6 years now and only change the rope when it gets a fairly worn. I saw a friend recently and he is a big guy like you break his main rope on the Stealth and he was able to ride home because he had 3mm Dyneema core inside which is still 630kg breaking strain. Looks very neat too. The rope in the pics below is about 12 months old and would have done approx 300hrs of riding. I'll change it this summer at some stage.
If it somehow broke completely my kite would flag out not fly away, and then I would reconnect my chicken loop to the dyneema loop in the centre of the Stealth surf bar, relaunch and either keep riding, or go back to the beach and sort any crossed lines. Dynabars can be set up the same way.

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Ozone Kites Aus said..
The Dynabar 13" spreader was designed for bigger guys because they need a wider spreader bar to fit their harness properly and that makes sense that you like the 13" because you are a bigger lump of human than average.
I saw it happen in front of me with one of my mates and he was a very experienced kiter, somehow it had worked its way loose and released. We had a couple of other reports of it happening so we advised everyone to remove it, the design is very simple and it can easily come loose if the rider is not checking it regularly.
I've been rolled in the surf in decent sized waves many times and my chicken loop QR has always saved my bacon. I know where it is with my eyes closed upside down and under water because I use it every time I kite to self land. I cannot imagine trying to find that ball thats tucked into the side of the spreader bar in an emergency.
You are experienced and smart enough to know which things need to be checked prior to launch.
It would not be too hard to put a second rope on a Mystic Stealth bar, but I prefer to splice a secondary rope inside the primary and have been doing this for about 5-6 years now and only change the rope when it gets a fairly worn. I saw a friend recently and he is a big guy like you break his main rope on the Stealth and he was able to ride home because he had 3mm Dyneema core inside which is still 630kg breaking strain. Looks very neat too. The rope in the pics below is about 12 months old and would have done approx 300hrs of riding. I'll change it this summer at some stage.
If it somehow broke completely my kite would flag out not fly away, and then I would reconnect my chicken loop to the dyneema loop in the centre of the Stealth surf bar, relaunch and either keep riding, or go back to the beach and sort any crossed lines. Dynabars can be set up the same way.

I guess that's why manufacturers been making spreader bars in 12 and 10 inches etc for years, huh.

Again, yours are the first occurrences I've heard of. I check mine the first session after I replace the rope then I literally never check it again.

No harder than finding the leash's QR, or the hook knife strap. Being able to release the hook is handy -- QR isn't going to do much use if you've a steering leader wrapped around the hook. I think I said that already.

When I replace my rope, I just splice the ~3mm Dyneema back into itself, use a nice tight eye for the pin, and knot in the other end. I seem to keep using the rope until the outer "sheath" wears through ... and the pin still doesn't slip out.

You'd have to be pretty silly to leash your safety to spreader bar QR rope

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Kamikuza said..

Ozone Kites Aus said..
The Dynabar 13" spreader was designed for bigger guys because they need a wider spreader bar to fit their harness properly and that makes sense that you like the 13" because you are a bigger lump of human than average.
I saw it happen in front of me with one of my mates and he was a very experienced kiter, somehow it had worked its way loose and released. We had a couple of other reports of it happening so we advised everyone to remove it, the design is very simple and it can easily come loose if the rider is not checking it regularly.
I've been rolled in the surf in decent sized waves many times and my chicken loop QR has always saved my bacon. I know where it is with my eyes closed upside down and under water because I use it every time I kite to self land. I cannot imagine trying to find that ball thats tucked into the side of the spreader bar in an emergency.
You are experienced and smart enough to know which things need to be checked prior to launch.
It would not be too hard to put a second rope on a Mystic Stealth bar, but I prefer to splice a secondary rope inside the primary and have been doing this for about 5-6 years now and only change the rope when it gets a fairly worn. I saw a friend recently and he is a big guy like you break his main rope on the Stealth and he was able to ride home because he had 3mm Dyneema core inside which is still 630kg breaking strain. Looks very neat too. The rope in the pics below is about 12 months old and would have done approx 300hrs of riding. I'll change it this summer at some stage.
If it somehow broke completely my kite would flag out not fly away, and then I would reconnect my chicken loop to the dyneema loop in the centre of the Stealth surf bar, relaunch and either keep riding, or go back to the beach and sort any crossed lines. Dynabars can be set up the same way.

I guess that's why manufacturers been making spreader bars in 12 and 10 inches etc for years, huh.

Again, yours are the first occurrences I've heard of. I check mine the first session after I replace the rope then I literally never check it again.

No harder than finding the leash's QR, or the hook knife strap. Being able to release the hook is handy -- QR isn't going to do much use if you've a steering leader wrapped around the hook. I think I said that already.

When I replace my rope, I just splice the ~3mm Dyneema back into itself, use a nice tight eye for the pin, and knot in the other end. I seem to keep using the rope until the outer "sheath" wears through ... and the pin still doesn't slip out.

You'd have to be pretty silly to leash your safety to spreader bar QR rope

The dynabar rope release was a dumb idea poorly executed, if you like it great.
The design was poor and QC was poor too, especially in this part of their kit. The pin has only a single point of contact and thats with the rope it can release, the pin could move around easily and the ball with rope could easily get snagged on things either when kiting (lines) or something could catch on the ball when not kiting and the pin could be 1-2mm from releasing and then under load it did and I saw it and had others report it.
The rope could not come loose after I removed the ball because I larksheaded the rope to the eye of the pin and put that under the spreader so unless the eye of the pin broke it could not come loose and the other end was knotted.

By the way I only used the roller hook slider for a year or so, several years ago and ever since have used rings, rope guides or what I use now the pulley with swiveling shackle and a ring.

Don't you think that if we really need a way to release from a slider rope system, by releasing the rope, there would be something on the market from one of the big harness brands? Its the one part of the Dynabar system that has not been copied?

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Peahi said..

Kamikuza said..
Ozone Kites Aus said..

Don't you think that if we really need a way to release from a slider rope system, by releasing the rope, there would be something on the market from one of the big harness brands? Its the one part of the Dynabar system that has not been copied?

Just because they haven't copied it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. Should we be dicatated by manufacturers?

Do "they" care about users safety? Or are they are all about selling gear and making flash videos? It was only 2014 that single line flagout became standard and before that some QR systems were downright dangerous. Also the whole rope slider thing is relatively new, most kiters still use hooks, rarely go out in large waves so the safety issue is not visible.

I am using carbon spreader from ride engine, and have wondered how I can mimic the same as the dynabar, seems like a pin setup and something to pull the pin with that is easy to find/grab.

And consider the reason kiting has become so popular is that it has become all that much safer?

Single front line flagging has been in use for a lot longer than 6 years, Ozone started using it around 2008 from memory. Manufacturers are not Dr Evil and minime, manufacturers, where the owners and designers kite and listen to customers, are the same ones that have been in business long term, providing things that are safe and fun to use. I'm positive they all care about customer safety and know it from first hand discussions with designers and owners I've been fortunate to meet.
The old adage of KISS should always apply, you don't need to complicate things if you have a working QR that flags out your kite, and then a QR on your leash that releases the kite, I just don't see the need for the third one?

Manufacturers have voluntarily moved towards safer products, because they are safer and because they want their customers to have fun, survive and buy and recommend their gear, so its a natural progression. We can see this in the car industry, baby care and transportation, etc so its not an evil plot happening just in kiting.

And if you are using a rope slider, why do you want a hook if you don't actually unhook to ride or do tricks?

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Adoy said..

Ozone Kites Aus said..

Peahi said..

Kamikuza said..
Ozone Kites Aus said..

Don't you think that if we really need a way to release from a slider rope system, by releasing the rope, there would be something on the market from one of the big harness brands? Its the one part of the Dynabar system that has not been copied?

Just because they haven't copied it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. Should we be dicatated by manufacturers?

Do "they" care about users safety? Or are they are all about selling gear and making flash videos? It was only 2014 that single line flagout became standard and before that some QR systems were downright dangerous. Also the whole rope slider thing is relatively new, most kiters still use hooks, rarely go out in large waves so the safety issue is not visible.

I am using carbon spreader from ride engine, and have wondered how I can mimic the same as the dynabar, seems like a pin setup and something to pull the pin with that is easy to find/grab.

And consider the reason kiting has become so popular is that it has become all that much safer?

Single front line flagging has been in use for a lot longer than 6 years, Ozone started using it around 2008 from memory. Manufacturers are not Dr Evil and minime, manufacturers, where the owners and designers kite and listen to customers, are the same ones that have been in business long term, providing things that are safe and fun to use. I'm positive they all care about customer safety and know it from first hand discussions with designers and owners I've been fortunate to meet.
The old adage of KISS should always apply, you don't need to complicate things if you have a working QR that flags out your kite, and then a QR on your leash that releases the kite, I just don't see the need for the third one?

Manufacturers have voluntarily moved towards safer products, because they are safer and because they want their customers to have fun, survive and buy and recommend their gear, so its a natural progression. We can see this in the car industry, baby care and transportation, etc so its not an evil plot happening just in kiting.

And if you are using a rope slider, why do you want a hook if you don't actually unhook to ride or do tricks?

Hooks are just more practical, for various reasons, manufacturers make fixed spreader bars with hooks welded on them, wouldn't it be simpler/ cheaper to just weld a ring on then?

Yep it would stop accidental unhooking which is one of the main causes of accidents when launching when the chicken loop comes off the hook. Hooks came from windsurfing, but kiting is not windsurfing and the small number of people who do actually unhook could easily be provided for and the rest should be on a spreader with a built for purpose large ring or a roper slider if kiting in waves or foiling.
Hooks are not needed by 95% of kiters, and it is strange that no brand has clued onto that fact yet???

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Adoy said..
Hooks are just more practical, for various reasons, manufacturers make fixed spreader bars with hooks welded on them, wouldn't it be simpler/ cheaper to just weld a ring on then?

Hooks are simple and do the job well enough. If the CL has to go through sharp angles, you get wear at that point and eventually a hole in the PU tube, then water and sand get in and the internal rope rapidly goes bad...until it snaps. The old FS Infinity bars were terrible for this, and I had a heavily used Cabrinha IDS bar go the same way. Very low probability issue though

NP does/did a solid hook that pivoted horizontally, which IMHO is a great idea...but it doesn't seem to have taken off. Or maybe it's really successful, but either way they're impossible to find. NP also does the Halo I think they call it, that completely eliminates accidental unhooks. Completely unnecessary IMHO... I mean, how hard is it to check you CL and DD before you launch?

Cabrinha's Fireball is a good idea, but there's a couple of guys I know who've snapped two of the lower part's internal rope. Now that's a problem design, but a step in the right direction.

The vast majority of kiteboarders on twin tips don't like hooks that move, but the surfers and foilers do, which is why most brands now offer rope slider spreader bars as well as hooks. I like a rope for the TT, makes it possible to ride toe side in a seat harness, but just doesn't feel as crisp for boosting.

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fepo said..
Hi, Does anyone know where I can get a sliding spreader bar with a hook that would fit a Dakine harness? It seems that the Dakine Option Bar is not sold anymore. I have an old chicken loop (Cabrinha IDS) and can't really pass it through a ring cause it does not open.

Some kind of Wichard shackle or even a carabina would be fine, as the IDS doesn't rely on opening a chicken loop to release.