If they want kiters to follow the "sailing" rules, they need to rewrite them to suit the modern times.
When those old sailing rules were written, kitesurfing wasnt even invented and poledancing hadn't even really started.????? Lots of pirates' around back then too " aaarrrrrrrrr"
Trying to follow rules written waaaay back then would be like following the road rules from back when cars weren't invented and horse and carts ruled the road.
Its probly the reason why so many windsurfers are getting mowed down by boats??????? Time to update to modern day.
We don't want sailing dictating our rules and our safety, we want sailing so stay out of our sport. We know best how to manage the safety of our own sport and have been doing a great job of it for 20 years.
Kiteboarding australias alignment to world sailing should be of concern to all kiters, the motive is funding$, not what us best for kiteboarding.
Decisions involving kiteboarding should not be involved by a different sport with ulterior motives.
We like how a kiteboarder has been considered a surfcraft in qld , it has worked well for 20 years, anyone that tries to align us to a sailing vessel it will be all out war as we value our ability to make decisions regarding our own own safety and freedom to ride as we do.
Yadda Yadda Yadda, it makes sense for the same rules to apply to all people/vessels travelling on water because there are no centre lines, roundabouts or traffic lights. Generally, the pilots of most vessels need to pass a test on those rules to get their licence, whether it's for a jet ski, yacht or mega freighter. Kiters, paddle boarders and wind surfers don't need to pass that test but it makes sense that we should know them because we are sharing the water with them. As for kiting, yes, upwind: kite high, down wind, kite low, coming in to land, give way to kiter trying to get off the beach etc
Yelling out "STARBOARD" is a very wanky thing to do! Only ever heard it from Euros. It helps though if you are on a collision course, both riders know, without being able to talk that the rider going to the right is going to hold his course and the rider going to the left is going to either drop down wind or edge further upwind if they can to avoid tangled lines. Usually the rider on the port tack (left foot in front) can signal their intention by either raising or lowering their kite Watch Blake's video clip I posted earlier in this thread.
Cheers
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..Sandfoot said..
Starboard rule is ****ty.
Person with the best advantage has right of way.......Just let the rider with the upwind advantage have right of way, easy.
Stops having to slow down and be all cheesy with a rule book.
Rubbish.
We share the water with yachts, windsurfers, powered craft etc.
So when approaching on opposite tacks, starboard holds his line and port yields ........ well before the point of being close.
Its really fkn simple. Its what the boats are going to do and hopefully windsurfers also so the continued attitude of kiters that they're different is bloody annoying.
Yes at a freestyle spot where its only you guys out - local rules
Yes in the waves, rider on wave had priority or whatever local rule. Fine.
But when on a big body of water going straight at each other on opposite tacks you gotta obey the Col Regs lest you end up in court.
How are we expected to high five if people are yielding all over the place?
Just spent 2 weeks in Cape Town ,in the 2 weeks only 2 people lowered their kites when I was upwind ,and the look of astonishment when mine was at 3 -4 mtrs off the water as I was below them if conditions allowed.
Mmmm... the fact that different people practicing the same sport (not sailing...) have posted somewhat different opinions on the same topic may raise concerns, specially when those same riders are on collision course with each other
Luckily for us there is plenty of coastline :D
Select to expand quotenewbie23562 said..
Mmmm... the fact that different people practicing the same sport (not sailing...) have posted somewhat different opinions on the same topic may raise concerns, specially when those same riders are on collision course with each other
Luckily for us there is plenty of coastline :D
There isn't an actual problem though.. 20 years and we have had hardly any collisions of vessel vs kiter, or kiter vs kiter.
This is because we respect the dangers and vulnerabilities we have as kiters and we are super cautious.
It is a problem when new misinformation with a sailing agenda is spread though confusing a new generation.
Like said we do anything to avoid collision. Kiters use "buffer zone" a radius around them empty of risks due to the nature of kites that can see riders suddenly fly/ accelerate. We try to go nowhere near other vessels where possible.. we are skin and bone vs tonnes of fibreglass/wood.
Kiter vs kiter.. we don't play the starboard rule because it means that some miseducated rider may disrupt a session by ruining the traffic flow.. no need to pinch upwind in a stupid way but usually it is clear who is further up wind... keep them upwind... we work hard to get back upwind to jump/ trick/ surf/freeride so don't snake.
Kitesurfing is not sailing, it has it's own very different safety considerations, it doesnt use a sail or mast!!, half of all kite surfer deaths are as a result of the flying nature of the sport ( usually accidental flying due to loss of control)
People need to be very careful how they "educate" a new generation of kiters.
Safety is the number one consideration and the sport of kitesurfing has it's own unique challenges that have been well managed for decades.
Sailings involvement in kiting at a racing /Olympic level should not enable corruption / misinformation of tried and tested safety standards for kiting.
Unfortunately as money is involved in the form of funding for the Olympic kite discipline through sailing which is a world away from what 99.9% of kiters do, there is risk of being dictated to by people that are absolutely clueles$.
cdn.revolutionise.com.au/site/l7njxnmon2hnjcry.pdf
Look at Appendix F Kiteboard Racing Rules.
Also look at the law prevailing in Western Australia which governs kiters. Similar rules exists in other states and territories as well globally. It seems to me that a kiteboard under a kite is a sailing vessel.
www.legislation.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/main_mrtitle_1944_homepage.html
Kite and sail safe.
And they think Australian Maritime Marine Regulations don't apply to them.................What a bunch of Frk'n Muppets!!!!
"It seems to you" lol
Starboard! Don't worry about buffer zone, wave riders, jump/freestyle sessions.. you just plough straight through them shouting starboard.
Want to pinch upwind and piss everyone off thinking you are sailing not kiting?.. go hard! Lol
Select to expand quoteiandvnt said..
"It seems to you" lol
Starboard! Don't worry about buffer zone, wave riders, jump/freestyle sessions.. you just plough straight through them shouting starboard.
Want to pinch upwind and piss everyone off thinking you are sailing not kiting?.. go hard! Lol
What's your private agenda?? you seem to have a beef with sailing and a beef with Kiteboarding Australia.
Where are you at with your thinking mate, seriously???
Are you just bitching for the sake of it or do you actually have something constructive to say???
Maritime Rules are there for a reason, so we can all navigate safely and get home to the people we love.
Not so some Knob head can go............. OH I'm a kitesurfer and i can make up my own rules on the water. It doesn't work like that buddy!!!
Hopefully you and are fair few others get the message.
Go to woodies, the pond, corronations, lancelin and tell us all what we have been doing wrong for the last 20 years to well manage our own safety.
Like mentioned by others do whatever necessary to keep yourself and others safe, if you decide to claim starboard in close proximity to another kiter that has worked their way back upwind during a session; however, you can still pinch wind towards them forcing them downwind in close proximity, u are are the rider creating a risk and not adhering to our 20 year culture of buffer zones and session rules. Also selfish to those that want to have a fun session and maximise a trick spot, waveriding time while sharing.
It sounds to me like u have an agenda, ploughing through fellow kiters on starboard and getting your little made up rule book out and lecturing us about getting home to our family safely.
Don't kite near me. Your a sailor mate with a sailing avatar and 3 windsurfers for sale on the breeze, not an og kiter.
The sports are different as we can fly with our kites ( not sails), we need to protect ourselves and others way more than sailors and have been doing so for 20 years because we are a different sport with a far higher rate/ risk of accidents than sailing.
I don't know much about KA, but I entered an event and it could have been better organised by children, it seemed the objective wasn't any rider satisfaction whatsoever, but simply a result ( I suspect the organiser was a paid subcontractor) There were no judges organised, the person running it didn't seem to understand that sub 10 knot lulls should result in an abandoned heat, no clear judging guidelines... so god help us if they try and rewrite the rules of keeping kiters and others safe!
My concern is that KA try to align themselves to sailing in order to receive funding from the $20 million IOC funding pot rather than let kiteboarding in australia look after it's own sport. That should not happen.
Its nuking, starboard!
Select to expand quoteiandvnt said..
Starboard!!!! said no one ever while kiting.
I do, although mainly when I'm on the port give way tack, works sometimes
Select to expand quotethe truth said..iandvnt said..
Starboard!!!! said no one ever while kiting.
I do, although mainly when I'm on the port give way tack, works sometimes
lol!
Dominant theme in this thread is commonsense...
Just remember that circumstances can change someones perspective - a lot...
Just look a road rage - 20 years ago unheard of in the main stream - now it is almost a de-facto anger expression for a portion of the driving public...
It happens with boating too there was a disgusting situation where windsurfer was mowed down by a power boat in the swan river Perth - ignorance - drugs - blind spot - texting on the phone - ???
When I set the SE Qld kite location guide up a few years back...
For each of the bar type river mouths with boat traffic.. the description includes Hazhards....
-------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Noosa Rivermouth
Description:
Directions -- N - E
Hazhards -- Active boat transit. Give way to boat crossing the bar - U R more manouevrable. Up to 4 knot tidal flow Rock wall on Southern side. Be aware of dropping kite if you are relying on the tidal flow to boost light winds - wave zone will punish you.
Description -- NB kite restrictions on sign on footpath leading to groyne @end of carpark. Coastal Watch camera. Limited capacity 15-20??
Code of Conduct - reference (hope it still links!) : www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=409012462501177&set=a.188358961233196.44275.142684039134022&type=1&theater
Level -- Not beginner Confident board skills and kite re-launch. Take advice. Refer hazhards.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By regulations.. The point is power has to give way to sail.. By practical assessment (common sense + perspective) If a power boat has pulled the pin on a bar crossing they have to go.. no niceties around slow fast etc just run behind your wave and not get mown down by the one behind.. you on your kite / windsurfer / SUP are playing in their danger zone..
Being 100% correct after the event is not going to fix injuries...
When you get hot under the collar - remember why you are there go ZEN - Stay safe
Cheers
AP
experience wins out
Even with bar crossing rules there was a surfer run over and killed by a boat at currumbin a few years ago, just minding their own business, real world situations are often very different from peoples rights to give way to those crossing the bar and gunning out though the bar with their rule book - who was the muppet here. I have no hesitation in sticking up for my own safety , the safety around me and if you come to me quoting a rule book and I think you are full of $hit, bring it on.
Unfortunately there are agendas to try and control our sport from people without the og experience in our sport and they have the potential to put themselves (liability) and us in a very risky position.
I think most kiteboarders, especially the highly experienced, understand this.
Here's an interesting scenario. I was coming into shore toeside on my foil. I'd slowed down getting ready to perform a stylish 
downloop to heelside and out again. Just as I was raising my kite another kiter came in full tilt underneath me thus preventing me from transitioning. He rode up to the shore, stopped and then headed back out completely oblivious. I had to bale out to avoid a collision. I spoke to him later on the shore and he was very apologetic and was unaware of the needs of upwind riders. No temper tantrums needed just a bit of misunderstanding.
Select to expand quoteKIT33R said..
Here's an interesting scenario. I was coming into shore toeside on my foil. I'd slowed down getting ready to perform a stylish downloop to heelside and out again. Just as I was raising my kite another kiter came in full tilt underneath me thus preventing me from transitioning. He rode up to the shore, stopped and then headed back out completely oblivious. I had to bale out to avoid a collision. I spoke to him later on the shore and he was very apologetic and was unaware of the needs of upwind riders. No temper tantrums needed just a bit of misunderstanding.
Depending on exactly where the other bloke was, another option may have been to flip the kite over the other side of the window and do the loop/downloop in the opposite direction (if you were lacking power)...if that makes sense. Not as smooth or as fun as a gybe with downloop though.
Select to expand quotenatho6026961 said..KIT33R said..
Here's an interesting scenario. I was coming into shore toeside on my foil. I'd slowed down getting ready to perform a stylish downloop to heelside and out again. Just as I was raising my kite another kiter came in full tilt underneath me thus preventing me from transitioning. He rode up to the shore, stopped and then headed back out completely oblivious. I had to bale out to avoid a collision. I spoke to him later on the shore and he was very apologetic and was unaware of the needs of upwind riders. No temper tantrums needed just a bit of misunderstanding.
Depending on exactly where the other bloke was, another option may have been to flip the kite over the other side of the window and do the loop/downloop in the opposite direction (if you were lacking power)...if that makes sense. Not as smooth or as fun as a gybe with downloop though.
Thanks natho but I think on the day it was a no win situation. Fortunately, no tangles, no one got hurt. In future I'll do a lot more looking about and maybe stay out the back. But foiling or no foiling, boxing an upwind kiter in is common on Botany Bay.
Select to expand quoteiandvnt said..
Go to woodies, the pond, corronations, lancelin and tell us all what we have been doing wrong for the last 20 years to well manage our own safety.
Like mentioned by others do whatever necessary to keep yourself and others safe, if you decide to claim starboard in close proximity to another kiter that has worked their way back upwind during a session; however, you can still pinch wind towards them forcing them downwind in close proximity, u are are the rider creating a risk and not adhering to our 20 year culture of buffer zones and session rules. Also selfish to those that want to have a fun session and maximise a trick spot, waveriding time while sharing.
It sounds to me like u have an agenda, ploughing through fellow kiters on starboard and getting your little made up rule book out and lecturing us about getting home to our family safely.
Don't kite near me. Your a sailor mate with a sailing avatar and 3 windsurfers for sale on the breeze, not an og kiter.
The sports are different as we can fly with our kites ( not sails), we need to protect ourselves and others way more than sailors and have been doing so for 20 years because we are a different sport with a far higher rate/ risk of accidents than sailing.
I don't know much about KA, but I entered an event and it could have been better organised by children, it seemed the objective wasn't any rider satisfaction whatsoever, but simply a result ( I suspect the organiser was a paid subcontractor) There were no judges organised, the person running it didn't seem to understand that sub 10 knot lulls should result in an abandoned heat, no clear judging guidelines... so god help us if they try and rewrite the rules of keeping kiters and others safe!
My concern is that KA try to align themselves to sailing in order to receive funding from the $20 million IOC funding pot rather than let kiteboarding in australia look after it's own sport. That should not happen.
Its nuking, starboard!
I thought we banned you 4x guzzling pricks from Queensland that have enjoyed a wee too much sun on the cranium from kiting in WA.
I'll have to talk to my mates on border control to keep an eye out for you.
WTF are you on about 3 windsurfers 4 sale??? Really??? Piss off back to the banana state mate............Seriously!!!
Ok bitches
The post was made for having a constructive discussion on what the **** you should or should not do when a wanker comes straight into your kiting (sailing) course.
No don't ****ing shout starboard or bitch about who does that, it doesnt work neither way.
The point is to have a general ****ing rule (being the starboard rule) that it's easy enough to learn, apply and share.
What you, your brother and mates do in your local pond does not have anything to do with the general public. Say you go kitesurfing Hawaii or the Netherlands you need to have a general guidance on how not to smack your face against other ocean users, even speaking a different language. That rule being written or not, everyone needs to know it to increase safety for all.
From the posts above, a general consensus seems that the starboard rule is perhaps frequently valid on collision courses or at least is known amongst kiters, independently if they apply it or not. So it's at least a (partial) achievement.
A bit the same as to keep left on the road, even if there isn't a middle line, or signs around. You would be safer if you stay left, I guess. Yeah a road train comes head on to the left you want to go right, fine, but that's a unique event.
I agree that upwind, advantage and power to manoeuver influence the decisions for a broad number of kiters and may be practical in many conditions, no dramas to admit that.
Common sense always freaking applies. And starboard rule is generally useful.
Having said that, you don't need to be an idiot and stick to it even if that is unsafe, WTF, yeah a ferry won't hear you shouting starboard (by the way who does even do that??!!)
On a side note, if you are kitesurfing but not doing tricks in that moment, say just riding to go back upwind before the next trick/wave, are you sailing?
A basketball/footy/soccer player following the rest of the team around the field, distant from the action, isn't just running?
Ahhh leave me alone
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..
If they want kiters to follow the "sailing" rules, they need to rewrite them to suit the modern times.
When those old sailing rules were written, kitesurfing wasnt even invented and poledancing hadn't even really started.????? Lots of pirates' around back then too " aaarrrrrrrrr"
Trying to follow rules written waaaay back then would be like following the road rules from back when cars weren't invented and horse and carts ruled the road.
Its probly the reason why so many windsurfers are getting mowed down by boats??????? Time to update to modern day.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-_and_right-hand_traffic
Traffic flow on left or right doesn't really matter, and rule was created in the middle age. Still applied today. What's worth is that is established well enough in each region so that people follow that rule, independently if riding cars, carts or skateboards, and they don't smack their coconut heads
