At my local, when I see the windsurfers at long reef I tend to give them more room to move.
As an x windsurfer they can't point into the wind as much as a kitesurfer when on a true wave board.
A lot of kiters don't know this.
Am more than happy to head downwind even if I am on starboard tack.
If anything goes wrong my lines won't go in front of them.
Can make up my ground very quickly.
If you have not tried windsurfing in the waves as I have done both,
windsurfing is ten times harder.
My 2 cents
Select to expand quoteyendor said..
At my local, when I see the windsurfers at long reef I tend to give them more room to move.
As an x windsurfer they can't point into the wind as much as a kitesurfer when on a true wave board.
A lot of kiters don't know this.
Am more than happy to head downwind even if I am on starboard tack.
If anything goes wrong my lines won't go in front of them.
Can make up my ground very quickly.
If you have not tried windsurfing in the waves as I have done both,
windsurfing is ten times harder.
My 2 cents
Zigackly right. Makes much more sense than sticking to your guns and refusing to budge cos you're in the right.
I give them a wide berth as they're completley unpredictable here... at least I know how kites work. Maybe it's a Buddhist thing...
Select to expand quotebigtone667 said..
Any how, there is value in Fez's original comments and I am now practicing the correct right of way.
Let us know how that goes. I suspect that, like here, if you're in the minority of people who follow the rules, you may actually create more problems than you solve 
I wiill always avoid any possibility of a collision occurring anyway. But i will more cognizant of those that probably are familiar with the rules
Port / Starboard rules are pretty simple
Surf etiquette and rules is what really needs clarification IMO
^^^ not really
(1) first on wave owns it (so doing 50m runs in and out is no good if a few ppl are out, there WILL be somebody on that wave you turn onto and it is theirs)
So we do the circuit. If you always turn around when you are the furthest rider out, then it is real easy. Don't turn inside somebody coming in unless there is stuff all riders out there and it is real obvious you will be alone on that wave
(2) BUT if you do a 2km run out the back whale watching, you don't get that wave cos it is ridiculous. It is First on the wave in the rough area that most people are turning around. There is an area where people have got "far enough upwind" for the next ride (which is a downwind ride yes?) so that si where everyone is picking waves up. You can't be a rebel and pick up a swell 10km out and claim its yours.
(3) if you can't pick who got on the wave first, right of way goes to the upwind guy or closest to peak ie: who can make the most of that wave.
Often i have really believed a wave is mine, but the other guy reckons it is his and yells at me, and I think 'well i dunno maybe he did pick it up same time as me and he is closer to peak' ....... so it is his ..... no sweat peel off and get another.
(4) sub-rules like
- don't stall if it is busy. ie: if you picked a sh1tty wave, don't drop out the back and take the next, if it is busy another guy will be on that wave. Windsurfers are often bad for doing that. If i could put up 'no parking' signs in the zone, I would 
- at some spots that are dumpy and big, or wave riding (rather than jumping) oriented, going out has right of way so they can get thru the waves.
BUT if you are well powered and can get out easy, that does not give you the right to fk up a rider's wave just so you can get a jump or big carve onto a wave.
The idea is to help people get out but once they are getting out easy that right of way no longer exists.
Then in open water (not the wave zone) we revert to port gives way to starboard, but avoiding collisions as paramount..........simple.
Alternatively at mushy spots with no riding, port vs starboard would apply even in the zone. but those just leaving the beach really close in would have ROW under kiting rules.
Not hard to obey 1,2 and 3 then ask about local stuff like #4.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
(2) BUT if you do a 2km run out the back whale watching, you don't get that wave cos it is ridiculous. It is First on the wave in the rough area that most people are turning around. There is an area where people have got "far enough upwind" for the next ride (which is a downwind ride yes?) so that si where everyone is picking waves up. You can't be a rebel and pick up a swell 10km out and claim its yours.
If a guys that committed to a wave he's been on it since 10km out, don't you think he's earned it? I do.
No because then everyone goes further and further out.......to beat the other guy. Then others get the ****s thinking "god when is this guy gonna turn around??" so they turn inside of him and we have problems.
and when way out the back, it gets real hard to ascertain who was on it first.
BTW 1 2 and 3 are the core oldest rules from hawaii etc about 1980 ish so if you don't like them don't redthumb me, I didn't invent them. However does make sense to me - it is all about taking turns to pick up a wave (doing the circuit) and then if you can't tell who was first you give the wave up if the other guy is gonna have a better ride then you. SIMPLE and really polite.
I ride the spot Fez is referring to when conditions allow. When kiting amongst windsurfers you need to be specially aware since they quite often travel a lot faster than us and can come up behind you quicker than you may be aware. The spot where Fez rides is very narrow if you want smooth flat water and doesn't lend to having many people there at any one time. So be super careful. Just a note to any windsurfers who may be reading this - we move our kites up and down often to generate power so please don't think we are trying to intimidate you when we do this.
Sometimes I will deliberately pass a windsurfer downwind of them regardless of tack because I know they can be spooked by my lines. If you would rather I didn't do this I am happy to comply. When I do this I make sure it is seen as a deliberate change of direction, well in advance so that there is no confusion.
Select to expand quoteKIT33R said..
I ride the spot Fez is referring to when conditions allow. When kiting amongst windsurfers you need to be specially aware since they quite often travel a lot faster than us and can come up behind you quicker than you may be aware. The spot where Fez rides is very narrow if you want smooth flat water and doesn't lend to having many people there at any one time. So be super careful. Just a note to any windsurfers who may be reading this - we move our kites up and down often to generate power so please don't think we are trying to intimidate you when we do this.
Sometimes I will deliberately pass a windsurfer downwind of them regardless of tack because I know they can be spooked by my lines. If you would rather I didn't do this I am happy to comply. When I do this I make sure it is seen as a deliberate change of direction, well in advance so that there is no confusion.
No, you must follow the rules! You can't go around just doing whatever you think is a good idea to make riding safer and more enjoyable! If you don't follow the rules, then what is the point of having rules!
I'm no racer, so I get spooked when windsurfers blast past within a few feet upwind of me, then gybe and fall over in front of me... wonder what the rules are on that...
Fez, you have a simple point to make which is that kiters have a due diligence to learn the rules. You lost me when you became the classic $&@!head who spends more time making others feel ****ty about their mistakes instead of spreading the good word and sharing your knowledge.
You're that crusty old surfer who thinks he owns the local wave and stares down any new face.
I recon the windsurfers gotta slow down. Riding that fast with limited control and vision is simply not safe.
Select to expand quotenikmcc said..
I think the bigger issue than people learning the difference between port and starboard, is the one windsurfer who intentionally goes out of his way to try and run kiters over at this spot.
I understand he might get frustrated with kites cutting him off etc, but does he realise how dangerous that can be for both himself and the kiter?
He'll kill someone one day if he keeps it up.
I wonder if it's the same windsurfer that kept on screaming up behind me one day ... then complaining when I turned around that I was too close to him and apparently not looking where I'm turning.
We ALL need to keep a safe distacne from each other. Do not creap up from behind. Follow the right of way rules when required. Enjoy and be safe!
Elicash, You obviously haven't read the original posts etc.
The spot is to be enjoyed by all Windsurfers and Kiters. It is not to discourage anyone in the water if done with respect to others around. I may be crusty but I do not stare down any new face as you say. Where the hell did you make that assumption!
After 3 times during a short period of time I had to seriously avoid a collision caused by kiters that were not sticking to some very basic boating rules and not looking before they propped and turned directly at me, I figured they did not know the danger they caused and it was prudent to inform them. Without swearing or calling them names which I feel showed a lot of restraint. Without pointing it out to them they would continue to do it. So the point is to help educate people, windsurfers and kiters alike. All they have to do is go on starboard tack in the flat water and then come back on port tack below everyone...pretty simple I would have thought.
I think it very amusing you are from QLD and make all these assumptions about me, and it is clear you don't understand the situation.... therefore I can only make my assumption of you ....@&%#head!
Select to expand quotemc2 said..
Fez
420's worlds 1981
470's Goodwill games
18'ft skiff world champs 1996 2000
Italian Olympic Sailing Coach 1996 2000
AIS Coach
Sydney Hobarts
I think he knows what he's talkimg about
prick hasnt done **** in years whats with this lazy fella? ohhhh right cant compete without other competitors and cant coach without students.
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..Mark _australia said..
....
When you have 30 craft going in and out at a beach, and people try to go upwind, their paths of travel will intersect sometimes. Knowing that port (here it is those heading out) are the ones who change their course a little to avoid those on starboard means we DON'T have the last minute "oh **** gotta avoid that guy" ................and maybe they both turn the same way and whack!
....
The whole port/starboard thing is entirely meaningless. The rule is more simply put as "Turn right". If turning right means turning upwind then chances are you won't be able to turn at all. That's ok because the rider going the other way should turn right and downwind and all is good.
Problem is there is another rule which supersedes that one, where you both hold your course to avoid having a collision. ...................................
All of this begs the obvious question, why are you guys all riding in such close proximity of each other at speeds that increase the risk of collision? Why follow a rider all the way to the beach and act all surprised that they turn and actually make the turn and want to ride back out again? Or follow close behind them and act surprised that they turn to head back in again? Oh. I forgot. You're on windsurfers. You can't turn.
the only way they will learn gorgo is if we stick em up a few thousand feet and sit them on a ridge with a dozen other people THEN we will see how much they follow closely behind eachother and force them to take evasive action hahahahaha
everyone would be a far better kite/wind surfer if they just spent a little time in the air gliding :P
Again Fez
There are a whole gamit of rules that apply to riding in this area not just the one that you and your mate are fixated on
You choose to ignore the rules that apply to speed and distance off! And the rule that states the overtaking vessel must give way to the vessel being passed.
If you are riding at a reasonable speed there is more than enough room for two vessels to pass each other between the bank and the poles
Move on from the eighties and read the boating handbook particularly pages 85 and 52.
IanR, you comments prove the point that you can't be taught common sense.
The issue is not an overtaking one. It is Port and starboard....pretty simple.
How can you be overtaking if you are on different tacks? Your imbecilic comments are laughable.
Page 52 refers to Motor boats. Windsurfers and Kites are sailing boats
Page 85 refers to swimming zones..... don't see any swimming zones in the location in question.
It would be wise of you to comprehend the information before making a fool of yourself.
Your complete argument is flawed.
Why not address the kiters who caused the problem rather than try to attack me and others that have been in the same situation trying to keep clear.
Don't bother replying!
Fez your arrogance is staggering
i don't know which copy of the handbook you have, it might be one for the eighties
I'm referring to the most recent one
www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/maritime/licence/boating-handbook.pdf
Printed page 85 ( not page 85 according to your PDF reader ) defines Kite and sail boarders as a VESSEL and gives very clear rules about speed and distance off
Printed page 52 (in blue letter in the bottom left or right hand corner) uses the word VESSEL in every paragraph except the final one that says power driven vessel
Are you really that bigger MORRON??
Distance off, page 85 current Maritime Boating Handbook, how is this an issue with me when the kiters were not keeping a safe distance as they are a vessel as well. When kiters just prop and turn they cause the distance off thing kind of null and void as it becomes an instant port and starboard issue.
Hey I've been called a Spanish pepper (morron), think I might go and cut my wrist.
M-O-R-O-N you a fool and a moron.
What's your fixation with the 80's...I think you just like to argue for the sake of arguing. The basic right of way rules in the current book are there to avoid collisions when vessels are coming together as boats come close to each other all the time.
You are wasting oxygen for others to use.
Maybe it's time Fez to re read the boating handbook with you new found understanding that we are all considered vessels
I would like to draw your attention to pages 46 and 48 particularly the paragraph on forcing right of way
Your claimed speed of 35+ knots in close proximity to others is part of the problem
Select to expand quoteFez said..
Go away you are just a pest.
Now you know how we feel! 
Relax, guys! Show respect to each other. Kiter / windsurfer / sailor lets save the agro for the jetskiers! Fez full respect and thanks for sharing your thoughts and trying to educate others. Shame that there is a us against them mentality (kiters v windsurfers). Peace!
Holy ****! I just found the NSW section and its awesome for entertainment.
I have nothing constructive to add to this discussion.
I too can not comment, since i don't know the spot. But this is very entertaining....
95% of all kiters are not going to read page 62 paragraph 6.5
We are not vessels, we can turn on a dime, hit the lip. So if you can go around someone do it. Especially if they are less able to that you (riding a wally or TT vs a surfboard).
In NSW the windsurfers struggle to stay upwind, so bear away and let em have it.
Now back to reading page 43.
Select to expand quoteFez said...
I will make it easy for you to understand!
If you look towards the kite and have the front edge of the kite going left you are on port tack... pretty fricken easy to work out bloke.
Like riding a pushbike... you not tested on the rules of the road, but they are there for everyone's safety not just yours.
Just think of the liability if a collision does occur, could get very expensive for someone not abiding by these simple rules.
It was too close the other day and i have had numerous similar close calls, hence my post on this forum. I have a few copies of the book in my car and happy to give them to anyone that needs to read it.
Maybe the NSWKBA, kite schools,instructors and experienced kiters can help by informing those that are unaware of the responsibilities needed.
As far as I am aware, kiting instructors don't have any qualification or national standard to work to. Sailing, windsurfing, keel boat and powerboat Instructors all work to a national standard and process. Boating regulations are part of the instructors responsibility when teaching. Anyone can just go out on the water and if they don't use or have any instruction there is still a responsibility to know the rules.
All water users, kites, windsurfers, sailing boats and powerboats should be able to enjoy their sport.
Can't I just ride behind you and then you turn when you get to the shoreline? Or is it better for me to hold ground then turn when your close by? I'm confused..
