Hi Stevechris,
The old LF Havoc was a nasty piece of work but having said that, it is a big step in the right direction from the Torch.
Here's some advice, Have a look on Seabreeze Buy and Sell for a 10 or 12m Airush Flow 2007 or 2008 (forget the 2009 model). The 07 and 08 Flows were brilliant for learning. We sold loads of them and they taught many kiters to get their skills up safely. They were a really good, safe, general purpose kite.
The 07 LF Havoc would be worth about $300-400 if it's in good condition. If it's in poor condition, which is likely due to it's age, then it will be worth half that. LF were still blundering through kite design back then and hadn't quite got it figured out.
DM
the guy who owns it never used it at all he has a 14m and his girl friend has a 10m that she flew 3 times the guy took some lessons pumped up his LF asn it sat on the beach while he used his trainers kite...he could not ride it very well and the guy who was a friend of his left the country to train in brazil and from that point he never took the kite out again....so having said that it pretty much brand new
so what do you thing same value $400.00......and you don't think its a good kite to start with ...or just not as good as the one that you mentioned....oh and how do you do that thing where you get a piece of what someone says and put it in your next message....just cut and paste or ......
I think you should just buy the Torch especially if it is off of a kiteboarder that is going to put the money back in to the sport. Your just not going to make it as a kiteboarder.
obviously you have a lot more skills than your mate and seeing as he couldn't teach himself on the old LF kites you should have no issue. You have said that money is not a issue but you continue to scrape the budget basement of crappy old gear that will not help you progress in any way.
Where about in Aus are you, this is a big factor in gear. But seriously forget the gear and get lessons, they may cost you $500 but will be worth every cent if you think this sport is for you.
One last point on gear, if you buy gear as old as you have been mentioning then there will be no resale on the gear so if you don't get in to it you will be stuck with it. If you buy gear that is 1-2 years old and use it for a while and decide to not pursue the sport you should be able to sell it for close to what you payed for it.
So if you don't have $1500 to $2000 to get started then you may as well just save your money to start with.
If you plan to get the cheap gear and teach yourself do the right thing and get some insurance, public liability from your state AKSA organisation, you also may want private health and some income protection and don't forget to top up your life insurance.
so from 2010 going back 2 yrs. is ok but going back 3yrs a death wish? what does a 2yr old kite have that a 3yr old kite does not, that the result will be so different.....and so what about the board LF from the same yr. ..and one more thing the guy that owns the LF kite never used it to learn on it sat on the beach unused ..he used the kite that was provided by his trainer ..and ihave no idea what kite that was ..but he just did not have it in him i quote "i was not use to being pushed around by anyone or anything...i didn't like it."
No the kites that were made in the last 1-2 years are going to be in better condition and have a good resale price where as kites that are a lot older probably have been for sale for a lot longer because there isn't much of a market for them, due to them not being as good, not as safe, and generally be warn out and you cant get replacement parts for anymore. So potentially you are going to be stuck with them. If you have a real death wish i could hook you up with a 2 line cabrinha kite.
Get lessons, a lot of your questions will be answered by your instructor. I know you cant trust people you have to pay blah blah blah a couple of face plants in to the dirt should sort you out.
this thread seriously is the most entertainment ive seen on here since that bloke from the US was getting his knickers in a twist over that kite protectant **** and refuse to listen to anything anyone had to say. 
Ha classic - hey old mate have alook at the LF Spectrum2 kites, should be able to get one of them for under 200 bucks!! i feel mean
Ha classic - hey old mate have alook at the LF Spectrum2 kites, should be able to get one of them for under 200 bucks!! i feel mean 
I have a 2004 Best Nemesis in excellent condition that you can have for free.
Comes with bonus funeral package and permanent disability insurance.
Seriously dude you have to open your ears and listen to what everyone is saying. Old gear is crap. Anything pre 2007 will retard your learning process. Sure you will learn like we did, but your progress will be slow and you will just be a menace on the water.
I hope your not from Caloundra.....the rescue boat is gonna be busy.
We spend a lot of time pulling people out of the water who have 'hearing disorders'
Good luck
Hey bud ive got a 08 14m Airush Vapour that you can have for $400 Its only been crashed a few times. Waxhead even helped me out out once when i crashed it at whyalla ( nearly killed a couple ot people in the process).
Na my point is that some kites are good for begginers and some arnt. Both kites you have mentioned arnt the best by a long shot. As is the kite I have for sale. Its ok but if you wernt an experianced kiter looking for that particular kite in that size i wouldnt feel comfortable selling it to you.
Listen to this crew and get lessons and listen to you instructor about what kite would be suitable for you.
Oh S**t I forgot I have a 2001 Cabrinha CO2 two line, death trap in the shed. No quick release and a windsurfing harness line to hook into on the bar. No lessons, just self taught!(there were no schools back then) Now its got a bit of sentimental value so I cant give it to you only because it nearly killed me many times and stopped me from hitting the water on a kite again til lately. (went back to windsurfing for a few years). Anyone else remember learning in those days?
If you do let this bloke know! Sorry Ive slowly got more sarcastic in my posts.
The good old days ,started kitsurfing back in 01 gear was s**t and about as safe as a mustang with no brakes doing 100 ,no schools ,you learn't the hard way,couple of concussions later and a lot of swearing and your addicted,problem was you lear't by your mistakes and nowadays there are ways of avoiding them,i get guys turning up for lessons with old c kites who want you to teach them on the crap they have just bought and the answer is always the same i teach on the latest gear and give advice to resell and upgrade,most of the time they listen but there are always people who think they know it all, and there always will be.
