Select to expand quotealexinbaja said..
The best bar without a doubt is the Cloud bar by Board Riding Maui. It is simple, light and huge amount of depower. I would guess it is less than half the weight of the next lightest bar. He also fits it with an amazing connection system that is far superior to anything on the market. The only thing you can't do with the bar is unhooked tricks.. After a couple of years using this bar anything else seems like it is from the last century. The owner of the company operates a small business out of Maui, so it may require a call to him to get a bar, but it is worth it.
How do you wind your lines up on these sticks?
A kite designer, Really like the idea of being able to order as I prefer . Did I misunderstand your posts though, as in the first post you suggested US$260 approximately but in your second post close to $700 Australian?
I also agree with the comment about red and blue lines as per the ozone set up, I have both ozone bar and a north, good things about both, but after I have been through the washing machine trying to sort out the north lines is total carnage.
Select to expand quoteludbey said...
A kite designer, Really like the idea of being able to order as I prefer . Did I misunderstand your posts though, as in the first post you suggested US$260 approximately but in your second post close to $700 Australian?
I also agree with the comment about red and blue lines as per the ozone set up, I have both ozone bar and a north, good things about both, but after I have been through the washing machine trying to sort out the north lines is total carnage.
I think it's a good idea too. Also, bar size! I know it's a small market but mini bars for the wakestylers. Most chop them themselves but it would be better to buy one already mini, instead of cutting up a bar you just paid $700 for. Just an idea.
Select to expand quoteludbey said..
A kite designer, Really like the idea of being able to order as I prefer . Did I misunderstand your posts though, as in the first post you suggested US$260 approximately but in your second post close to $700 Australian?
I also agree with the comment about red and blue lines as per the ozone set up, I have both ozone bar and a north, good things about both, but after I have been through the washing machine trying to sort out the north lines is total carnage.
I was saying I can set up a custom bar for about $250 - 290usd and make a decent profit to cover time costs stock etc, help feed an Australian family, and that that price was fair compared to say some big brand bar going for close to $700aud. Kickstarter project? so could order your bar, lengths, PU or no PU lines, amount of bar bar throw ( normal or Long ) line lengths ( 20 13 15 30m ) etc. Wondering if this is something some people may be interested in.
Mate lent me his LF envy once - loved the bar - clean , simple light , functional and great feel
Check out Greg's video
I can connect my lines and be flying in less time than it takes someone else to lay out and straighten their lines out. It does take a bit of practice, but once it is perfected you have a control bar that is super light, has an integral leash built in, has massive depower, impossible to mess up your lines if careful winding it up, and looks super neat like a beautiful French braid. It is the future of bars, at least in my opinion. The length of the harness to connection point is instantly changeable which is especially good for anyone with short arms. Instead of a hook plus a 4 inch chicken loop, you can now set the connection point as close as an inch from the harness, which then allows you a huge depower range. I have been using this bar for 3 years now and when forced to use a standard bar, find it very awkward, heavy and clumsy. I use this bar on both inflatable kites and the Cloud kites.
The other thing that is important, but never gets mentioned is the safety in use of this bar. If you get in a life threatening situation the total kite release is a simple two finger pull and goodbye to kite. I have been in a situation on a standard bar in which I have release the kite only to find myself being dragged backwards by the leash while under water. As you use the release every time you hook up and unhook the bar from your harness, it becomes 2nd nature and you never waste time trying to remember how to release the kite. In big surf, if you drop your kite, you want to be able to ditch the kite instantly, not turn it into a 2 stage operation. I am not an expert, but giving my thoughts after plenty of time using the BRM (Cloud) bar.
Re Gregs Bar, Firstly massive respect for the bar build, for Greg and others im sure its a fab bar, and to come up this system is awesome, so big respect. .
My 2 cents
1) I dont see any untangle spinning? I do alot of 360s. With this bar I would have to come into the beach and spin around alot, or make note to do 360s the same amount each way, this is doable, but not great. I like the idea of a below bar swivel, easy to untwist lines.
2) 2 line flagging system, this does not work on most pullyless kites, kite flags to 2 inside lines, this wont give enough safety for depower on most pullyless kites, I have tested this alot, so this release wont work for most modern kites as many kites are going pullyless. And many bars age going 1 line flagging.
3) Cant unhook, i dont unhook, some others do, but I teach, and it would be hard to swap kites, unhook, or do a self land by attaching the release onto a log.
4) Self rescue would be harder with 2 line flaggin, agree what he says about lines and fingers on self rescue, but I and some others have had to self rescue, and its good to have the bar ends to help and 1 line flaging system.
5) The safety line is your depower line, if your depower line snaps, ( this happens a bit ) you have no safety line attached, by by kite, hope you can swim. I like the idea of a separate safety line, just in case main line snaps. Because people always think "it will handle another session" SNAP.
6) No trim, having no trim would be ok in non gusty places, but where I ride can get gusty, 12 to 24 knots, not being able to adjust the depower on the fly would be a problem. in the gusts you would be riding poo stance. For me a trim strap is a must.
Important!, im not bashing the bar, I am explaining why the bar might not be great for some, but great for others.
I think custom bars are a great idea and could do quite well, I would personally love to see a mash up of the cloud bar and a normal bar, one with direct connection and extra long bar throw but also swivel, trim and safety line, I ride with a sliding spreader and don't unhook and find the chicken loop is just wasted space that Puts it all further out and Can get uncomfortable, I would really like to see some direct connection options coming out with bars
Select to expand quoteKiteDesigner said..
Re Gregs Bar, Firstly massive respect for the bar build, for Greg and others im sure its a fab bar, and to come up this system is awesome, so big respect. .
My 2 cents
1) I dont see any untangle spinning? I do alot of 360s. With this bar I would have to come into the beach and spin around alot, or make note to do 360s the same amount each way, this is doable, but not great. I like the idea of a below bar swivel, easy to untwist lines.
2) 2 line flagging system, this does not work on most pullyless kites, kite flags to 2 inside lines, this wont give enough safety for depower on most pullyless kites, I have tested this alot, so this release wont work for most modern kites as many kites are going pullyless. And many bars age going 1 line flagging.
3) Cant unhook, i dont unhook, some others do, but I teach, and it would be hard to swap kites, unhook, or do a self land by attaching the release onto a log.
4) Self rescue would be harder with 2 line flaggin, agree what he says about lines and fingers on self rescue, but I and some others have had to self rescue, and its good to have the bar ends to help and 1 line flaging system.
5) The safety line is your depower line, if your depower line snaps, ( this happens a bit ) you have no safety line attached, by by kite, hope you can swim. I like the idea of a separate safety line, just in case main line snaps. Because people always think "it will handle another session" SNAP.
6) No trim, having no trim would be ok in non gusty places, but where I ride can get gusty, 12 to 24 knots, not being able to adjust the depower on the fly would be a problem. in the gusts you would be riding poo stance. For me a trim strap is a must.
Important!, im not bashing the bar, I am explaining why the bar might not be great for some, but great for others.
Actually the BRM bar flags to one front line. Check their website for more details.
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..
I heard a rumour that Cabrinha are bringing out something new for 2017. It sounded like they might be modifying or getting rid of the chicken loop.
guaranteed obsolescence
I looked at the fireball system, great idea, but...
When you release you have a separate bit attached to your harness, if you didn't lock the ball in place, bump it with your board or knock it out after you release, then you just lost half of your release, no more kiting for you.
There is a pin that flicks back at release, if your hand or finger is there, it can cut you to the bone, i have read on other forums that this is happening.
The thing is frigging long from ball to end where you can pull the bar down to, its almost double the length of my current release, too long for me. Not good if you dont have gorilla long arms.
The thing about the ball being closer to you where they show a spreader bar with a friggin long hook, then a short hook for the ball is bs, my current harness has a hook about the same size / cloaseness as the ball special harness, they just showed a harness with a frigging long hook, when there are harnesses for kiting with short hooks. So i have the same distance as the ball then attached, and don't have any issues of ride up as the harness is tied down.
So good idea, a bit of bs, but some things need to be fixed and it could be awesome.
Select to expand quoteAdoy said..alexinbaja said..
The best bar without a doubt is the Cloud bar by Board Riding Maui. It is simple, light and huge amount of depower. I would guess it is less than half the weight of the next lightest bar. He also fits it with an amazing connection system that is far superior to anything on the market. The only thing you can't do with the bar is unhooked tricks.. After a couple of years using this bar anything else seems like it is from the last century. The owner of the company operates a small business out of Maui, so it may require a call to him to get a bar, but it is worth it.
How do you wind your lines up on these sticks?
Select to expand quoteKiteDesigner said..
I looked at the fireball system, great idea, but...
When you release you have a separate bit attached to your harness, if you didn't lock the ball in place, bump it with your board or knock it out after you release, then you just lost half of your release, no more kiting for you.
There is a pin that flicks back at release, if your hand or finger is there, it can cut you to the bone, i have read on other forums that this is happening.
The thing is frigging long from ball to end where you can pull the bar down to, its almost double the length of my current release, too long for me. Not good if you dont have gorilla long arms.
The thing about the ball being closer to you where they show a spreader bar with a friggin long hook, then a short hook for the ball is bs, my current harness has a hook about the same size / cloaseness as the ball special harness, they just showed a harness with a frigging long hook, when there are harnesses for kiting with short hooks. So i have the same distance as the ball then attached, and don't have any issues of ride up as the harness is tied down.
So good idea, a bit of bs, but some things need to be fixed and it could be awesome.
First part, yes this could happen if the box is not in place. This should be checked before launching. You can't simply "knock" or "bump" it open again though.
Same release that has been on cabrinha leashes and many others that i can remember and the mainline quick release until the "Quickloop" came out in 2012... I have never seen an injury relating to this release since we have sold Cabrinha (2005/06)
Just had a look at an old Griffin release here and the pin actually slams into the fat pad of your hand when releasing... Hope its better now?
I'm pretty short, the whole system brings the bar closer by 3-5cm. This can actually be uncomfortable for taller people, which is why they are making the fireball section in 3 different lengths. All our harnesses have tie town straps as well, they will still twist into you ribs no matter how much you yank on the straps (probably causing those thinner tie down straps to wear or break eventually)
You should probably ride one before splurting your own "bs" about a product you clearly haven't ridden. Just had a couple guys take our demo out yesterday and loved the freedom of movement it gave them.
edit: It's not perfect but is a great step forward in moving away from the "loop" and eliminating any chance of foul hooks occurring.
Peace
Select to expand quoteDanozDirect said..Adoy said..alexinbaja said..
The best bar without a doubt is the Cloud bar by Board Riding Maui. It is simple, light and huge amount of depower. I would guess it is less than half the weight of the next lightest bar. He also fits it with an amazing connection system that is far superior to anything on the market. The only thing you can't do with the bar is unhooked tricks.. After a couple of years using this bar anything else seems like it is from the last century. The owner of the company operates a small business out of Maui, so it may require a call to him to get a bar, but it is worth it.
How do you wind your lines up on these sticks?
Looks ass backwards to me... but each to their own
I'm still on the lookout for new bars... Was going to get the cabrinha 1x trimlite until I read about the de-power line jamming issues on the kite forum...
The slingshot Compstick is growing on me. Adjustable length for the cleat, de-power line magnet plus the 2017 ones come in 20 + 3m extensions so you can change lengths depending on kite size/style.
Can anyone else comment on those bars? Slingshot are the most popular brand in the US btw.
Cab invented the IDS bridle depower system also, if you didnt use a cab ids bar, the kite would power up when you pulled the release. I think thats a bit dangerous.
Select to expand quoteKiteDesigner said..
Cab invented the IDS bridle depower system also, if you didnt use a cab ids bar, the kite would power up when you pulled the release. I think thats a bit dangerous.
I would say that's user error.
Select to expand quoteKiteDesigner said..
Cab invented the IDS bridle depower system also, if you didnt use a cab ids bar, the kite would power up when you pulled the release. I think thats a bit dangerous.
Thats a pretty silly statement Christian. Like saffer says not using a cab bar is user error, not Cabrinha's fault. Single front line flagging bars would depower a Cab IDS kite anyway, which bar are you referring to?
This old clip explains what you dont understand. Or just Google Cabrinha IDS like I did and you will see why your statement is dumb.
Select to expand quoteKiteDesigner said..
Cab invented the IDS bridle depower system also, if you didnt use a cab ids bar, the kite would power up when you pulled the release. I think thats a bit dangerous.
My bad, apologies, looks like I was wrong. Looks like you can use normal bars on the IDS system, So i apologize, incorrect info, i was wrong, you were right.
But i did find the below while checking the IDS info:
======================
SAFETY RECALL NOTIFICATION Cabrinha Overdrive
The product recall is being conducted in cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission.
This problem is limited to a small percentage of the 2016 control systems.
The base of the adjustable trim line may break resulting in a loss of kite control.
=====================
Select to expand quoteKiteDesigner said..KiteDesigner said..
Cab invented the IDS bridle depower system also, if you didnt use a cab ids bar, the kite would power up when you pulled the release. I think thats a bit dangerous.
My bad, apologies, looks like I was wrong. Looks like you can use normal bars on the IDS system, So i apologize, incorrect info, i was wrong, you were right.
But i did find the below while checking the IDS info:
======================
SAFETY RECALL NOTIFICATION Cabrinha Overdrive
The product recall is being conducted in cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission.
This problem is limited to a small percentage of the 2016 control systems.
The base of the adjustable trim line may break resulting in a loss of kite control.
=====================
Seem to really have a bee in your bonnet with Cabrinha? It's not about who is right or wrong, just clarifying all the misinformation you seem to be spewing out lately.
These trim lines were replaced straight away, I think we sold one bar before this recall, got the customer to bring it back and we swapped out. There shouldn't be any bars out there still with this recall issue as Cabrinha got onto it straight away. Even looking at the trim line we had to replace, I couldn't figure how on earth it would break.. better to be on the safe side.
I just checked the setup i have been using for 3 years vs the fireball,
I think its a bit wrong to market the fireball and compare it to a 11.5cm hook, i don't know anyone who has a 11.5cm hook on a harness.
Im sure it is a great system and people will love it. But keep it real.
Fire ball is 6cm, my old setup is 6.1cm, not a lot of difference.
Select to expand quoteKiteDesigner said..
I just checked the setup i have been using for 3 years vs the fireball,
I think its a bit wrong to market the fireball and compare it to a 11.5cm hook, i don't know anyone who has a 11.5cm hook on a harness.
Im sure it is a great system and people will love it. But keep it real.
Fire ball is 6cm, my old setup is 6.1cm, not a lot of difference.
Go look at a Dakine harness with a hammerhead spreader bar, which is what they have used for their measurement. Of course all manufacturers differ but they haven't gone and used some obscure brand, Dakine has a very large market share.
Get real,
Cabrinha searched around for the longest hook they could find so they could show the comparison.
I mean I would too if I was doing the marketing.
lol.
Select to expand quotewaveslave said..
Get real,
Cabrinha searched around for the longest hook they could find so they could show the comparison.
I mean I would too if I was doing the marketing.
lol.
No one is arguing that.
