Guday Troops,
Ok! So I have to start somewhere.
The upshot is I am going to build a Land Yacht of some description, "Do or Die"'
There is a lot of ether chat about a recycled product "Drill Core Rod" So is it really a prerequisite to use this stuff?? If so where can it be found??
I am in Wynyard Tasmania and there so many deserted beaches here for a loner to really "Go For It"
Any advice or input is welcome.
SOB (WRONG) Silly Old Bugger :-)
Hi Nikrum,
Over here in the good old GB we don't see much drilling pipe, but we do see loads of street sign posts in different thickness. Food for thought if you need some.
Jay
Lincoln,England
Hi Nikrum
Welcome to the forum You have come to the right place if you want to build yourself a land yacht The drill rod you mention is one of many options for a frame
I built my mini using 52mm diameter x 2mm wall exhaust tube There are other options such as waterpipe fencepost or trampoline tube etc
Most of us have used just what we can get and if it is free so much the better
Once you have looked around and figured out a design you would like to build
you can home in on the options for matierials
There is a member on this forum from Tasmania contacting him would be a good
place to start
Cheers Hiko
if your planning on building a Lake Lefroy Mini size yacht then the drill tube( seamless tube) isnt neccessary. look for 50mm' nominal bore' galv pipe. ( not tube)
It is 60 mm OD by 2-2.5mm wall . all the major steel suppliers have a similar size. the reason for such a large diameter are 1 a windsurfer mast fits nicely inside it, and 2 the bigger diameter makes up in strength for the tube not being a high tensile material( like the drill tube)
Well Lookey here,
I seem to have dropped into a forum where State Secrets aren't applied to Land yachting. Thanks Lads.
OK! It is remarkable where you can glean info, this morning I thought of a mate a couple of Km from here. This bloke is one of our ilk, he took a shine to the Old Bullockeys of yesteryear and just went out and did it for himself. Training a Team of 4 built a Tasmanian pattern Logging Wagon etc. Yes, he has had a lot of experience doing many thing, like me, just cos he wanted too.
After a good long chat and looking at the Pacific Magic Class 5 Yacht and materials, he was shocked to think anyone would want to use Drill Core Tube, "Way to heavy" is the mild form of his reply :-) Both he and I thought that Old Drive shafts from a wrecker would do the trick but we eventually brought the chassis down to main spine 60X60X2.5mm SHS OZTUBE with the "Y" section Rear Axle mounts made from 60X60X 6mm SHS OZTUBE. Because of the tolerance between 50X50x2.5mmm Axle extensions and the I.D. on the y section I decided it would be simpler to go with the heavy wall that area. What is more welding the Axle Mounts to the lighter wall Spine will allow for a good heavy Weld Penetration = Stronger Weld. From there on in it is pretty much plain sailing. Using new materials may be a little more expensive but I won't be running the Gauntlet of the Law and/or an Angry Wife over theft or Greasy washing.. 64 years of living has taught me it is far simpler and safer to shell out the bucks and keep the Danger for myself. LOL.
At the moment I have the 16"/400mm wheels arriving on Monday.
And with a little luck I will have a 6mtr Sail shortly.
Here in Tas' we have many beaches that are deserted most of the time. Damn! What a waste and I now have a way to partly cure that :-) ;-)
Thanks again and from time to time I shall keep updates going.
"All is as it should be in the Universe"
Nikrum
you will want round tube for the spine of your yacht. Square tube will not allow torsional twisting as LLF are designed to do.
Now that is the stuff I like to hear. Funny thing is I was tossing that thought about this morning and couldn't quite make up my tiny little Pea Size on the subject. You have just sold me on Round. I'm thinking 63.5 x 3.2 ID 56mm For the Axle "V" and 63.5 x 2.6mm For the Main Spine "I" V+I="Y" :-) :-) (Hows that for a Formula. ;-). This would allow the use of 50 x 3mm Aluminum Axle extensions about 1.075mm. This would give me around a 2.8mtr Rear Wheel Spread. If you guys aren't to sure what I am on about or interested in the Drawings www.seabreeze.com.au/Articles/Land Sailing-Pacific Magic .
I a am redoing the Drawings again for my purposes but that only covers measurements.
Keep talking to me and guide my hands. "Please OH Mighty Gods of the web" ;-) ;-) nudge nudge.
Nikrum (Alias Ron W)
just how big a yacht are you building.
2.8m wide is getting into big beast territory our big 3 seater is narrower
Ah! Gees! Don't take too much notice to me LOL. I B----y misread my own scale. There I go putting out a formula "V" + "I" = "Y" and then I go and make a helluva mistake like that.... Best hadn't do it while I'm cutting up steel Ha ha ha = LOL ;-) ;-) The Scale I am using is 200mm = 1Mtr. The OA width of the wheel spread is ------------------wait for it------------1.8Mtr' Sorry about that. OA Length will be Approx' 2.5Mtrs. Like our Polli's I will be a Back Slider :-) :-) Fully Prone. I really have no idea as to where my mind will lead me between now and the end of this project ;-)
After this evening on eBay I am now the proud owner of 1 x 6Mtr and 1 X 5Mtr Sail Board Sails 5Mtr for playing and 6Mtr for getting serious. Well I guess you guys will have something to say about my choice of gear. The 400mm Wheels Barrow will arrive this week.
Now get in there and tell me where I'm going wrong, BUT before you start the sails are not going on the market!!!!
Ron
-------------------"All is as it should be in the Universe"-----------------------------
OK! Landyacht,
At this point I have looked about a bit and haven't seen anything on the Mast Construct. What can you give up on a 6Mtr Mast. Once I receive the Sails I can add a couple of pic's and dimensions It just may be that I have to do alterations to its size
anyway check the pic's and give your thoughts.. All thoughts are valid. I mix and match to get the very best I can.
Ron
-------------------"All is as it should be in the Universe"-----------------------------
I was thinking of fabricating a boom to suit the shape of the Sail Bottom.
Seems a pity to alter it but "As needs must the Devil drives"
I can't see any reason to not use the sail with a boom shaped to the bottom edge.?
Bounce some thoughts off me.
Ron W
-------------------"All is as it should be in the Universe"-----------------------------
Just an addition to previous. I am trying to get a Handle on the difference between T6 and T81 Ali. Looking at tensile strengths there is only a few Ks in it. Is it necessary to use both or can the wall thicknesses be upscaled??
It was easier when I built my own Hang Gliders 30yrs ago LOL :-)
Ron
Yeah! Right! and people used to call me Giro Gearloose :-)
Yup! So you posted a Table of metallurgical Aspects, how does that help me a layman in these things. Just tell me what I should use and I will endeavor to get it but what is you can't source it locally???? Mataland doesn't stock T8 ( Somewhere in the dark recesses of my "Tiny Little Pea Size" I seem to remember using Cold Drawn Ali for the leading edges of my Hang gliders) That's another.
6061 and 6351 Would they come close?? Just looking for alternatives if all else fails.
Ron
-------------------"All is as it should be in the Universe"-----------------------------
all the better if you can find an old hang glider. Used heaps from mine, T6 scaff tube also gets used a lot. Some where else on here I posted where I purchased my mast tube from (bob Keely, Light spars of australia)
Cheers
aus230
A little bit of basic info o aluminium;
The "T" number actually refers to the temper of the alloy, (hardness). Where i work we use about t5 to t6 as it it is better to machine, (in a Mill or Lathe). The bigger the number the "harder" it is, also the more brittle.
The 6000 series are generally structural grades with good corrosion resisance. The 2000 series are considered a general purpose Ali. The 6061 alloy, (or grade of Ali), is probably the most common and is likely to be readilly availiable in a variety of tempers. We use this a lot in a t5 and t6. (I've also used 6005 in a t6 temper but it's a bit hard to get in a small quantity, less that 500kg).
I've got more info on this at work, so i'll have a look and get back to you.
Some good info on aluminium coming out here
Suggestion : Could it be lumped together in its
own thread so it doesnt get lost ?
Now there is what I'm looking for. This is great stuff. The Principle here is KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). The simpler the better for the Layman.
grlynch (The Grynch ;-) :-) Thanks for seeing my problem.
Educating the ignorant is a wonderful thing
Ah! But Sails come very cheep $67 Damn! What I couldn't do with a Macmillan 50cal 
.
Keep the info flowing. As Hiko says the info should be sifted out and caught up in its own Thread for the Sake of All New Comers and those that need a refresher.
Thanks guys,
Ron
-------------------"All is as it should be in the Universe"-----------------------------
A quick summary of all that tech data, in terms of what is relevent for bending.
This applies to Australia.
T5 is for BENDING. most common sizes will be 40mm OD 50mmOD 3mm wall
T6 slightly better range , not for bending. heavy wall. in metric , there is commonly 3 & 4mm and 40mm OD 50mm OD . in imperial you might find some 48.7mm with a wall up to5mm thick.
T8 tubes will be thinner walled , 1.5 , 1.6 , or sometimes 1.2mm. Capral have a range of telescoping tubes that goes (in OD) 28mm , 32mm, 40mm,44mm,48mm they dont do a 36mm
which would have been great.
the hanglider sections and Vics lightspar stuff is probably the more specialized T81-84 treatments. I would suspect that they are imported, whereas the other sections ive mentioned are locally produced
Thanks Landyacht,
OK! Hangliders. You have to remember when I built mine the first was a Seagull 5 Radial leading edge, leading edge tech----------then:-). Then I went to an experimental thing (in NZ) Called a Spyder 32' wing span, a glorious thing to flt but Double surfaces quickly followed with the upgrade of that hardware.. My point being The stuff we got pretty easily I might add was Precision Telescoping Ali' but with time and demand all that changed.
Cvestions, qvestions! Always more qvestions?
This one will cover a lot of people and experiences I recon ;
Steering Forks, Pivots and wheel traction in turning. What is the most efficient type the Horizontal Pivot and Fork System. The Perpendicular Pivot and forks or a combination of both at approximately 45Deg?
Now this one should "Put the Cat among the Pigeons"
I love learning this stuff and only the Mysteries of the Human mind can tell you what my "Tiny Pea Sized" is doing with it... .
For instance today I learned that a 6.1Mtr Sail was in square meters not in Mast Pocket Length and the same applies to a 5Mtr Sale. How come you guys didn't pick up on that one-------------Hmm??? 
Had I known that I could have Picked up a Brand new mast for $175 Ah! Well! Another day.
Ron W
I also learned today that "I do love Cats but I can't eat a whole one though"
-------------------"All is as it should be in the Universe"-----------------------------
OK!
I have had some more input overnight. Great stuff. It is a pity I got a bit worked up abut the sails though. Mind you one can't cry about the ones in the pic. They are not very old and had little use. I spoke with the seller last night and from the sounds of it he is probably a Solicitor that got too busy setting the guilty free and getting the innocent locked up :-) :-) He sounded pretty genuine----------Ahhhh! But when does a solicitor not sound genuine??
Test pilot 1 One would assume that is above Horizontal?? If so I will have to reorganize my drawings in that area. That is half the fun redrawing designs and putting your own spin on on thing in the hopes of getting the best of all worlds..
Forks? There are a few different layouts that in the end amount to the same thing, by the looks of what I see but I would have thought that the Push Bike style would be stronger and more secure for the front wheel??? Correct me if I'm WRONG..
We have lived in Wynyard for the last 5 years and to date I've not seen any Land Yachts about the beaches or paddocks as yet.. Hopefully I will help cure that .
Keep the info flowing and well be virtual sailing online
Ron
Before long the Land Yachting fraternity will be asking; Qvestions! Cvestions! Watayou? "The Spanish Inquisition?"
-------------------"All is as it should be in the Universe"-----------------------------
Just make sure that when you're setting up your forks that the axis of the steering lines up with the contact patch of the wheel. So draw a line through the steering bearing, it should hit the front of the contact patch.
Maybe even a little bit forward of the contact patch, but not too much.
This is called 'caster', the more you have, the more your steering will self-centre but will be heavy. The less you have, the less your steering will self-centre, but will be lighter.
If this line hits the ground behind the contact patch then you will have very unstable and twitchy steering. Not recommended.
When you set the steering angle up at 30% it has to line up to a point that touches the ground directly below the centre of the front axel
Check out landyachts front end below
Cheers
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/Steering/
Thanks for that. Duhh! I guess if I looked closer at some on Paul's stuff I might have gleaned something for myself
I just done this drawing after looking at some footage etc.
It looks like it may work and fall into conformity..
What say you?
That looks pretty good to me, you've got it sussed. That line you've drawn is the critical one -- if you get that right then you're 90% there.
If you want to get really pedantic then you can start doing things like flattening the tyre for the amount of 'squish' it's likely to have, drawing the line through the centre of the steering bearing instead of the weld, that sort of thing, but really it's not likely to make any difference.
In university I took part in a competition to build a racing car, and one team managed to get their caster 180 degrees out -- that line hit the ground behind the contact patch instead of just in front. It didn't steer well at all!!!
But then again I've never sailed a landyacht (hint hint if any landyachters are going sailing in the perth area then there's a box of construction fluid if you let me have a go) so I might be talking right out my derriere
