Looks like sabydent builds a Mini went stale.
I have a couple of friends who have a collector car website...www.mystarcollectorcar.com They just posted an article about my mini. They came out on a good day but were reluctant ...read chicken...to try it.http://www.mystarcollectorcar.com/2-features/editorials/1236-a-greenpeace-approved-land-yacht-with-an-infinite-mpg-rating.html
Went sailing today and had a few other guys try...they loved it. Hopefully getting something started in the great white north. My son also came out and shot some video. Light winds but at least it will show us underway will post as soon as he finishes editing.
I need to put a bigger sail on my mini. I was ticked off that Michael was kicking my but sailing the zooter...for shame. I could catch him on the gusts though. Given the average summer winds of 15 to 20 kpm I think I need a 6.0 meter sail.
Brian
Brian
Holy Dooley!! That looked like a tornado in the background of one of those pics.
That is a decent sized car park there. Are you sure you couldn't get a bit more speed out of her before having to turn?? 50 kliks is pretty good anyway.
No tornado, not even a good thunder head, didn't even get the wind up over 28 kpm. It is our fair grounds, unfortunately some wankers insist on parking their cars there when they to go to their events. Selfish buggers. There are some buildings that can mess up the wind and the lot seems to get smaller the faster you go. Am trying to get permission to use a local sod farm...I think it would be great right after they strip the grass.
Hey Bud.. last time i took out holey moley, winds gusted to over 30mph...had a blast...gonna put in some new bearings and need to make some kind of head rest...
If you have google earth look up stagecoach Nv. look right next to it for misfit flats, thats where we sail...
sabydent, with all that wind interference from useless buildings, she still goes really well.
Didn't look like it was very windy either. I suspect she will give you some mighty big thrills when you get her on the right playa with the right wind.
The sail looks great but me thinks a taller and more purpose cut and sewn sail would do her no harm.
Congratulations on a very successful build.
I was thinking you could slice about 8" off the boom,maybe 6at the front and 10 at the back
that would give you some visibility and allow the sail to sheet in better.
i can see an easy 60 in a carpark that size.
your main problem is not making use if the sail area you have there
And he's sailing along on moonlight bay.. Looks good though I'd give Pauls suggestion a bit of thought.
Ron
And he's sailing along on moonlight bay.. Looks good, though I'd give Pauls suggestion a bit of thought.
Ron
Yahooo!!!! I just got permission to use the sod farm for sailing. They are going to let me use any of the fields that have just had the sod removed. This leaves a very flat hard packed surface. All I have to do is sign a waiver that I won't sue.
Now I just need some wind with no rain.
I have raised my boom by putting some 3/4 inch plywood circles in the mast step pipe. It worked better, but I think I will make a mast extension to give me some more head room and to give me more leaverage on the sail when sheeting. I think that was what landyacht was getting at... I hope so.
Video looks great!
If I could make a suggestion on sail trim -- it really looks like that sail could do with some more static downhaul. The mast isn't bent nearly enough for the luff curve; you may have noticed that the sail had difficulty 'rotating' where the battens go from one side of the mast to the other. The battens were also sticking out the front of the sail on occasion.
Not too sure how you achieve it with your sheeting setup, but that would be the first thing I'd look at.
hth
Thanks nebbian:
I think I will put a cleat on my downhaul. I can then add some downhaul, yet the amount of downhaul will still increase when I sheet in.
Brian
the idea of shortening the length of the sail is to give some headroom, allow tighter sheeting,and enable you to really haul down on that downhaul. this as nebs said will make your sail have a much better more efficient shape and thats when it will start to perform.
your problem is often not lack of sail area ,but lack of sail shape. from the video you can see that when fully sheeted the top half of the sail is falling off, ie about half the sail isnt even working =drag
landyacht:
would adding length to my mast and creating some downhaul have the same effect?
I am working on tweeking my sail. I have added a mast extension to the base of the mast. This is an old adjustable mast base that just happened to fit. I added 6 inches. I also set up my downhaul so there is always downhaul tension. I added enough downhaul to get the battens near the back of the mast. I also put the outhaul on the upper hole.
This image shows the sail set up with no sheeting
This image shows the main sheet fully sheeted in. (no wind obviously)
Should I consider cutting my sail?
I thought it best to check with the experts before making any permanent changes.
As always thank you for your advice and help.
Brian
That mast does it have any stiffening in it? Looks very flexy to me ?
interesting to see what others think
I think you had it spot on in the video.
Have you considered tilting the backrest back a bit to lower your head? I know it might mean a spot of surgery on the pod but it looks like youre pretty good at that sort of thing.
Would also help get your weight back a bit. Nice job.
"G'day" Brian,
Looking at the footage I reckon you could either raise the height of the mast up to 8" or raise and adjust the Mast step angle a few degrees. Looking at the fully sheeted sail I think it could be a little to angled back and bringing the battens below parallel.
It is up to you haw you go about it but look at the whole thing logically and follow your gut You do anyway
Ron
dont touch the sail for now, you have built a rather long shaft to support the sheeting block . that could be significantly shortened, perhaps even reset lower than the back of the seat. you could then get rid of that lower mast extension thats looking worrying to me
you have built a fairly high backed seat.
as it is the rig only needs a bit more sheeting for it to be great. down haul is looking fine
Hang on nikrum.. changing the mast angle?
The Lake Lefroy Mini has an angle of 10 Deg, isn't that part of developing a "class"
This is one of the disadvantages of re cutting sails you need to work with what you've got, where as making a new sail from scratch is a different proposition.
Ive noticed you have packing around the top of the mast step do you have similar packing around the bottom of the mast, if not.. is this what is making the mast rake a bit greater?
Hmm I had one of those MPR sails, fond memories
Here it is doing 32 knots (60 km/h)
If it was on the water I'd downhaul it about 6mm more, with a bit less outhaul... I know from experience with that sail if it was rigged like that it would feel twitchy for me. It would feel a lot better than how it was rigged in the video before though. Bear in mind that we normally have six lines going up and down from the sail to the bottom of the mast... windsurfing sails are designed to have loads, yes bucketloads of downhaul. Way more than you might expect! Back of the envelope says something like around 150 kg total force pulling the sail down.
But as you're on the land it's probably a different ballgame. The only way for you to tell would be to experiment with different settings.
Agree with lowering the mast extension or getting rid of it altogether...
btw I compared your mast flex to another shot of me with that sail (more square on this time), and the mast flex looks spot on.
For what it is worth sabydent, I think you should drop the mast back to where it was and put an extension on the TOP of the mast with enough length to be able to adjust sail height.
Your mast looks to be flexing rearwards way to much which will change the dynamic of the Centre of Effort in relation to the Centre of Lateral Resistance.
The raised height of the sail increases the lever length between the Centre of Gravity and Centre of Effort as well which causes the yacht to tip over more easily.
As suggested, tilting the seat back further back to about 30 degrees will give you more head clearance under the boom and a greater sheeting range.
From the looks of it that sail in my opinion is a good high wind sail and I would leave it alone for the moment.
Were I you, which I am not, but if I was, I would be working on getting a fairly stiff but taller mast and a larger area sail with a higher aspect ratio, ie taller in comparison to the base length or in sailing terms more luff in comparison to foot.
Don't you just luff this sailing caper.
Edit:- Here is a plan for a "stiff" aluminium mast that Paul put up some time ago. It was the first mast I sailed my Mini with and it went like a rocket. He took it home with him and I had to build a sectional mast from a couple of windsurfer masts which while good, does not deliver the power to the yacht as well as the ally mast.
Edit 2:- If you can end up with something like this combination of mast and sail I think you will be very pleased. Just scroll to one of his posts, click on his profile and then on the right, click on his photos and you will find a lot of good stuff.
Thanks folks! It looks like I have some experimenting to do. Fortunately, it will be fun. If I ever get decent wind, I will try post some photos or video of my mini under sail.
Changing the seat angle will make a good winter project. (should have followed the plans).
Brian
Funny, that, as I extended mine from the Top
. Works well.
Brian,
How much difference is there between the Mast OD and the Mast Step ID. I am suggesting, before you do anything to alter you SHIP, to use something to push it forward in the MS. This should take the angle out of the sail. Perhaps give you some indication of the permanent fixs. A heavy strip of Tire Rubber or Plastic may well give you the improvement you need. From there you can go where you see fit./// Maybe a new stiffer mast //
Ron
"Doncha just love technology"
What i'm saying Nikrum about the mast angle is that if all the LLMinis have a 10 deg mast rake why does this one look different?... rather than chop the mast step look for other things that might be different from other LLMini's like mast dia.(or a larger mast tube) If a smaller dia. mast is used the rake will appear greater, and if you pack out the top to make the mast fit snugly you may need to do the same at the base of the mast to maintain that 10 deg angle.
There is a lot of play in my mast tube. In the sheeted in photo I really cranked the sail down thus the flex. I am using a fairly stiff carbon fiber mast. I will reduce the amount of mast extension but leave the piece in place as it eliminates the play at the bottom and the middle. I will add more Teflon sheeting at the top to eliminate the play at the top. If this does not work I can get out one of my longer carbon fiber windsurfing masts. (I was reluctant to use one of these as they are pretty expensive and I didn't want to wreck them). Will post photos and ask for your thoughts. Hopefully there will be some wind with no rain so I can try out the sod farm.
Brian
Brian,
Good thinking try everything before taking a risk on another good mast.. Put the TEFLON at the back of the mast and the piece at the bottom is a good idea as well.
Giz,
That is what I did with the demo in my previous post. All ideas are good ideas, it is just that some are better than others.
Ron
PS; The smallest differences can be magnified out of all proportions give the right circumstances..
