Forums > Land Yacht Sailing Construction

Sail bug. I like to call it XXtreme / VorteXX

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Created by Ruudje > 9 months ago, 27 Sep 2012
Ruudje
29 posts
27 Sep 2012 12:43AM
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Hi
Iam working on this project for a couple of months now ....
Give it a close look and give me your opinion please .
I normaly build the Kite buggys , thats why the front of the proto kart it self look like the XXtreme/XXracer buggy . The back ( that hold the wheels ) can be turned to the front for transport . The sail is still a proto It needs a lot attention to get it up to a 100 %





Have Fun
Ruudje

Gizmo
SA, 2865 posts
27 Sep 2012 4:11AM
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Awesome........

cisco
QLD, 12337 posts
27 Sep 2012 11:22AM
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I reckon that machine will hooooot.

Ruudje
29 posts
27 Sep 2012 2:57PM
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Iam working on the hooting part hahaha
I need to reduce the weight of the frame , the seat need to changed and the sail ...... it worxx but it NOT fast enough and still to much work to set it up .

Have Fun
Ruudje

Nikrum
TAS, 1972 posts
27 Sep 2012 8:24PM
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Ruudje. When working on the sail keep in mind , The Flatter the faster but less power. More Belly gives power but less speed..
Ron

Ruudje
29 posts
1 Oct 2012 7:24PM
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New sail nearly finiched ....
Updat very soon ( have to wait for wind )

Have Fun
Ruudje

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
2 Oct 2012 8:58PM
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I would have a good look at getting some rig tension on the sail to set some shape.
im rather impressed so far

Ruudje
29 posts
4 Oct 2012 8:04PM
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The sail is finshed .
No wind yet
this weekend got kite buggy races ( no time to try )



Have Fun
I no I gona have.....
Ruudje

gibberjoe
SA, 956 posts
4 Oct 2012 9:45PM
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Ruudgje, which one is u , the bald head with shoes on , or the hairy bugger with thongs [japanese riding boots] looking dejected? we all have moments like that, It would seem that your sail needs to be tighter in the batterns with more down haul to the tip of the boom [i think]

Ruudje
29 posts
5 Oct 2012 5:44AM
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Hahahaha Iam the hairy one whit the thongs ... The first and the last pict.
The sail in these pictures was completly wrong .
The new sail is made better ( I hope )


Next week after the races I hope there is still a little wind left to test and make more pictures .

Have Fun
Ruudje

gibberjoe
SA, 956 posts
5 Oct 2012 11:14AM
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Ruudge,,,,,,your working toward perfection with the new sail.

out here we have a habbit of giving a nick name to nearly everyone

its concidered an honour most of the time. So with your name we can

make that a "BUDGEY" which is a small native bird that can live in big

flocks or as most people see them in a cage, they become good

talkers. So from now on here your Budgey

Ruudje
29 posts
5 Oct 2012 3:07PM
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I like the BUDGEY nick name hahaha

Have Fun
Ruudje ( this is my nick name given to me maybe 30 years ago )

Clemco
430 posts
5 Oct 2012 5:12PM
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Ruudje said...
I like the BUDGEY nick name hahaha

Have Fun
Ruudje ( this is my nick name given to me maybe 30 years ago )


Welcome Ruudie, I too like what you are doing. The guys are right , you will have to get more tension on that sail cloth if you want to get that buggy up to speed. I would tilt that mast forward so when you haul it in it comes upright. I don't like the steering direct off the front wheel. Could be a bit scary at a 100k. Nice concept thou, a bit like Wally Hall's Ice flyer. He would be the guy to talk to.

Ruudje
29 posts
6 Oct 2012 5:38AM
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Hi
Yes I can put tension on the sail , because I can fix the boom in a every possion .
The iceflyer has a full surf sail in back , my idea is to build a frame and design a dedicated sail . The frame you can fold it so it fits in the trunk of a normal car.
The only thing I use that is not special made for the Vortexx is the frontfork ( I use the same as I use in my kite buggys ) and the mast , this is a 60% carbon surf mast from BIC whit a lenght of 460 cm .

After this weekend more pictures

Have Fun
Ruudje

Clemco
430 posts
6 Oct 2012 12:49PM
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Ruudje said...
Hi
Yes I can put tension on the sail , because I can fix the boom in a every possion .
The iceflyer has a full surf sail in back , my idea is to build a frame and design a dedicated sail . The frame you can fold it so it fits in the trunk of a normal car.
The only thing I use that is not special made for the Vortexx is the frontfork ( I use the same as I use in my kite buggys ) and the mast , this is a 60% carbon surf mast from BIC whit a lenght of 460 cm .

After this weekend more pictures

Have Fun
Ruudje


Your windsurf mast is only half as stiff as it will need to be, and you don't want the boom to be fixed... it will need to be downhauled as you pick up speed. Easy to achieve at the tack, much harder for you to do at the clew. Landyacht sails need incredible high leach tension. Twice as much as windsurf sails. Hence the strong mast.

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
6 Oct 2012 8:28PM
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whats the IMCS number on that mast?

Ruudje
29 posts
9 Oct 2012 9:38PM
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Hi
The IMCS is 25 .
Well after a great racing weekend , back to the XXtreme / VorteXX ....
Still NO wind But Ive made some pictures just to show .





The top of this sail is made deferently and the mast has more curve .

Have Fun
Ruudje

aus230
WA, 1659 posts
10 Oct 2012 12:06AM
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I think a center down haul would work fine on that sail with the rope exacting the lower block to the front of the yacht to another single block that you could pull back on.
I had an iceflyer and it was an option that I was going to try.

web.archive.org/web/20070905214315/http://iceflyer.com/plans/download.html

Ruudje
29 posts
10 Oct 2012 3:18PM
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Can you explain .... center down haul for me I dont understand
The white under the boom can be fixet to the bottom of the mast holder .

Have Fun
Ruudje

aus230
WA, 1659 posts
10 Oct 2012 10:08PM
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This pick shows a boom center pull, If you move the block it front of my hand to the front of your yacht (low against the seat) I think you will get a better sheeting result out of your sail. Only a suggestion.
The two boom blocks are triple and the front one could be a ratchet.



Ruudje
29 posts
11 Oct 2012 1:14AM
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Do you have any idea how much kg your pulling down on the boom ?

Ruudje

Nikrum
TAS, 1972 posts
11 Oct 2012 4:18PM
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Hey Ruudje,
The short answer is "Shiite Loads" That boom is about 1.80m long and it has at least a 25mm curve in it from the down haul. Yep, I'd say "Shiite Loads".
Ron
PS do the math and a proving test.

Down Haul is the down pull on the sail via the boom and Sheet. It tightens the whole sail where as, The Leach down haul is pulling extra tension on the Luff Pocket and Luff of the Sail (Luff Front edge of sail). Using these methods tightens and flattens the sail leaving Air Pressure to curve and shape the sail.

Nikrum
TAS, 1972 posts
11 Oct 2012 5:51PM
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Another reply to your questions..
We all seem to have had some input into the hows and what fors but noone has seemed to notice your sail boom configuration will only allow for Luff Down Haul. Try adding tension to the Luff by tying it down more tightly..

Ruudje
29 posts
17 Oct 2012 4:18AM
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Finaly got wind and a lot of it hahha 25 knt .
A pitty the water came fast on the beach so there was not much time to play
The acceleration was okay I dont no the max speed ( forgot to bring my GPS )
This is the first time in the VorteXX , I needed to get used to everything .
The first thing I have to look into is the rope wich operate the sail , it does not run smooth .
The sail need to be redesigned , it need to preform better and it doesnt look good .





Have Fun
Ruudje

Ruudje
29 posts
17 Oct 2012 4:19PM
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Ive got an video on YouTube

-upl

Have Fun
Ruudje

aus230
WA, 1659 posts
17 Oct 2012 7:33PM
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Hi Ruudje
Somehow you need more down haul to flatten that sail out, maybe a mast extension at the top of the mast to raise the sail so that this can be achieved. Maybe you could look at a windsurfer down haul at the front of the sail and similar out haul .
Cheers
aus230

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
17 Oct 2012 9:06PM
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Ruudje said...
Finaly got wind and a lot of it hahha 25 knt .
A pitty the water came fast on the beach so there was not much time to play
The acceleration was okay I dont no the max speed ( forgot to bring my GPS )
This is the first time in the VorteXX , I needed to get used to everything .
The first thing I have to look into is the rope wich operate the sail , it does not run smooth .
The sail need to be redesigned , it need to preform better and it doesnt look good .





Have Fun
Ruudje


as well as putting on the downhaul tension you also need to have a system to act as boom VANG. with our heavily sheeted cl5's its all in the mainsheet,on a blokart its the sail panel under the internal boom, on a windsurfer sail the wishbone creates the effect, basically a diagonal tensioner. I have no idea how you gonna fit it, sorry

Ruudje
29 posts
17 Oct 2012 11:31PM
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I now about the problem of the downhaul , I used a rubber diabolo . This rubber make the boom very flexible . I need to make something new for the boom . Also the white material under the boom is like rubber . All these things toggedder make the boom nearly useless .
Got still a long way to go before it is perfect

Have Fun
Ruudje

Clemco
430 posts
18 Oct 2012 7:32AM
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Ruudje said...
Do you have any idea how much kg your pulling down on the boom ?

Ruudje


The downward force on a mid-sheeted Class5 would be about 160 - 200Kg. I can pull around 30kg on a 6:1 pulley system. You could achieve the same effect by having a 3:1 system at the mast(tack) and a 3:1 at the tail end (clew). Either way you are going to need some sort of support truss sticking out directly behind the mast. Keep at it. Definitely a worthy project.

Nikrum
TAS, 1972 posts
18 Oct 2012 2:46PM
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You are right Clemco.. I have been nutting on that quandary. The Support Truss, call it a "Stinger" if you will should take the place of that White piece of sail to about 3/5th of the Boom Length, to gain enough tension on the Leech of the sail to start curving the mast and applying tension to the whole sail surface. It would have to be side braced between the axles in order to control and forces that might try tearing it from its mounts. The Luff Pocket should also have a down force applied to it in order to hold it down tightly. These modifications would also eliminate the amount of Sheeting rope one would have to control as it is.. The Vortexx appears to have enough ground clearance to accept a length of 5/8th" Box Section of the length required with a shorter length of the same angled down from about 4" up the Mast Step to about half way along the length of the stinger. To be on the safe side a piece of 1/4" Rod should be welded between the 2 to act as a Truss. The sheet could then be operated thru the end of the Stinger.
My thoughts at this time. Add too if you will.
Ron

PS. Rudje, Why the White extension?? Looking at it I think it would add very little extra efficiency to the over all sail as it is in the Wind Shadow of the wheels etc as well being in the lower Wind Sheer Area (The wind decreases the closer to the ground=Wind Sheer)

Nikrum
TAS, 1972 posts
18 Oct 2012 2:54PM
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Ruudje, You could think about folding the bottom of the sail Luff Pocket at 45 degrees to the bottom of the sail allowing a little extra down-haul length for tensioning the Luff of your sail..
Ron
PS. Gees! If we keep improving your LY you are going to be able call it a Light Aircraft..



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"Sail bug. I like to call it XXtreme / VorteXX" started by Ruudje