Are there any with two wheels in front and one in the rear where the rear wheel is fixed, and the front wheels steer?
The tip over safety would still be in question, but it would not have the 'tiller wag' described above.....
^^^^^^ someone may be right 
...but then mabye not quite right! 
That argument dosen't stack up over time......... many great companys have
returned to things that are hundereds of years old and reused old design [}:)]
some just to beat copyright rules, others because they realized that originaly
people had it right 
One big example is The Caterpillar Co who are using 3
sided tracks nowdays, a feature of tractors 100+ years ago. They also bought
companys that had better systems operating and incorporated these items into
their world best designs 
The thing is not to let your ego, dull your eyesight.
That young buck from that car show is currently showing the world that things old
are not for the junk heap of thought . 
Maybe better to split the thread...
Below some pages from SAND OR LANDYACHTS by Millett Denning, 1955. Millett Denning was the builder of the Coronation Years, gigantic yachts with two or three men on board, rear steering and very very heavy because he believed only weight could help to get great speed. In continental Europe the "official" end of the rear steering was about 1959 when the main designer of its times, Willy Coppens, started to build a front steering yachts for safety reasons. He was shocked by a deathly collision brought about by a stern steering yacht out of control. On a landyacht (in its times? in every times?) the sail pressure was too forward, leaving the rear steering wheel too light, increasing the tendency to spinning.
Landsailingdarwinism!
Ciao - Enrico
Back to the original thread.... "Ultimate Minis"
There are many examples of people pushing the design envelope of land yachts, yes many are just concepts but it does get you thinking what could be viable in the future.
Yep! Tend to agree with GIZMO let's get back to the original thread. However I will state this and if further evidence is required I will post it on another thread.
Using this model I performed a couple of experiments the answer to which is as follows;
There was only a little difference in the front and wheel steering units which tended to favor front wheel steering in the stability stakes. How ever as Gizmo has stated if rear wheel steering is so good why did the Front Wheelers evolve to such a fine point of engineering??
One also has to keep in mind that people are Lazy and tend to Follow along in Grandpas foot steps "Hey! A Bullock and a Bent Stick were good for plowing for him, then it is good enough for me". There are a lot of evolutionary points that have surpassed in the front wheeler steering which make them far superior in performance "Generally", many of which have been touched on in this thread.
My Q to Gizmo is Has anyone bothered to query ADLandyachts on the cost of his CF Pod?? That is if he is prepared to divulge it..
The Concepts that have been shown are a Rich Mans Project. Would that I had the $$$$$ to delve into those designs. Blistering Speeds and Efficiency could well be achieved.
Ron
I say! Sir! You misunderstand my meaning. Would that I had the $$$. My thoughts were towards the rough costing of a full CF Beast such as one of those concept units. Building something in that line, I should imagine wouldn't leave much change out of 6 or 7 grand?? Hmm?. A well off mans project.
Ron
Thanks Colk.......you have thrown a hand grenade of common sence
into this forum...I didn't notice any real problem with the rear steerers
featured there 
maybe the builders were free thinkers exersizing their
individual minds and not being "flockers".....
maybe the builders were free thinkers exersizing their
i know im new but im getting confused here what has big old yachts with back steering got to do with the smal modern yachts with front steering its like 2 coversations at once goin on
makes it very hard if you are looking for information on a thread and the topic changes half way through
That is all my fault I'm afraid.
I was just musing that with a 'footprint' limited by the 5.6m rope rule it might be possible to make a yacht carry more sail with a 'two wheels at the front, one at the back' arrangement. From my simplistic water sailing background it seems that this would give you a longer 'righting arm' resisting sail force directed mostly sideways and a bit to the front. Of course, this supposes that 'more power' is the way to more speed, whereas the real solution is probably 'less drag'.
The rear steering conversation came out of that and a comment I threw in that it might be fun to make a mini replica of an old fashioned wooden stern steerer circa 1950.
some interesting things coming up, we have a name for joes rear steerer. how abot "this is gonna hurt"
the willy coppens thing when read has some things to consider
his idea of a small yacht was 2 people traveling up to 45mph, and faster yachts were machines with up to 6 people.
i do believe things may have changed in 60years, since our little lightweight minis are doing what the speed machine once did.
joe your articulated rear steerer reminds me of driving a crane at speed , very different from driving a forklift, but still something to really concentrate on
Something else that strikes me passing strange is that no one has mentioned the Centrifugal Force thing is fast sharp turns? With all the Pilot Mass the Butt end of the unit is going to want to keep going around in the turn resulting in a spin out that is going to want to pelt the Pilot to Buggery and gone as demonstrated in that Ice Yacht Vid'. At least with the steering of today that can be counter steered out of a Spin--------------------providing one has tire traction.
Ron
just watched cols british pathe video,
the smallest simplist yacht in the fleet won...................a DN
Gawdstruth! That could have been filmed while Noah was building his Arc if it weren't for the cars.. Front steerers win again and less and less I like the idea of the Stern Steerers. Anything that puts the Mass Distribution in favour of Centrifugal Force has to be bad.
Ron
sorry ron , but you and joe are committed now, build it , sail it film it .......prove us wrong. the video will be worth any pain
Dragging this one back round to 'ultimate minis' Heres a few photos for easily do-able ideas. Chassis is stainless steel, bulk of the strength comes from the GRP though, GRP axle, front wheel can unbolt and an extension piece be fitted to extend the wheel base.
Total weight for the lot is 49kg.
Cheers Col
