I have been following a couple of unofficial FISLY conversations on Facebook where they asked for feedback re. the mini5.6 rules. There were lots of idea's, none of which were perfect I have to admit. From what I could see, there is no way of limiting the yachts any more than it would be possible to limit pilots (without going 'one design').
Nice stir Burton!
If it weren't for the original FISLY rules (design freedom) I would of never entered the class. How ever I understand the original intent of the class. Based off the Facebook I 5.6 mini page it looks like the class will be split in two. One with the original rules and one with restrictions to keep the playing field more level.
The Worlds proved that it doesn't take a big bank account to win. Ironically the second place boat was more or less a factory made open pipe framed boat with a few pieces of fiberglass. Not much different than any basic entry level boat I've seen on this forum. Who enters the International Mini class to compete? At the Worlds the top 4 placements minus my self had won 13 World or European Championships between them in the past in classes ranging from Promo, Class 5 and FISLY Class 3. Currently at the Euro's Jean P Kischner ?SP has a large lead over second place. He placed 4th at the Worlds.
From what I understand about FISLY World Championships - only the top ten competitors from each country can compete.
That being said where does an entry level newbie belong as far as racing? The only option is local club type racing until they can climb the ladder.
A nice model to follow is the DN iceboat class. It's one of the biggest one design sailing classes in the world including soft water boats. - https://ice.idniyra.org/ - I don't know what they do with novice but their scoring and race starts are broken up into 3 divisions Bronze Silver and Gold. You work your way up the ranks and have 3 opportunities to compete with your level of achievement or boat quality. You are ranked yearly. It's not uncommon to have 45 per class in the major events. Very successful by any standard.
I'm just a bit confused about this thread, someone starts off by wanting LESS restrictions for the Mini5.6 class and we are now looking at the FaceBook postings of people wanting much tighter restrictions for the class to define different categories.
No wonder why people are confused.
I fear the popularity of the DN has a large part to do with the fact that it is one design, another being it appears to have surpassed that critical mass allowing it to replenish its ranks due to the popularity of it.
From an initial thought I think a division racing system could be a good idea, take the yacht and pilot characteristics out of the equation altogether. If you are faster and continually winning races, you get transferred to another division. Seems simple enough (without yet wondering how to 'define' the divisions in a standard manner)...
John,
if Gizmo is correct about the intent of the I 5.6 mini class, the answer to your question "where does an entry level newbie belong as far as racing?" is perfectly clear.
The entry level newbies belong in the I 5.6 mini class - because that class was specifically established to introduce recreational sailors to the sport of racing.
All the champions and former champions, who should not have been allow to compete in a novice class in the first place, can rent or sell their I 5.6 minis to interested newbies and go back to racing in the elite classes where they have had so much success in the past.
It would be interesting to hear from the French on this topic. Barney are you saying I 5.6 Mini class should not be included in the World Championships? From what I recall the I 5.6 mini was derived from the need to organize a racing class from existing a smattering of small boats that already existed.
Select to expand quoteUS772 said..
It would be interesting to hear from the French on this topic. Barney are you saying I 5.6 Mini class should not be included in the World Championships? From what I recall the I 5.6 mini was derived from the need to organize a racing class from existing a smattering of small boats that already existed.
From what I understand the I 5.6 mini class was set up as a cheap wheelbarrow class for introducing recreational landyacht sailors to racing (but I may be wrong).
I see no issues with a 'World Champion Mini' within the above definition of a Novice class so it could easily be included in the World Championships.
I do see a safety issue with flying starts for a novice class when none of the elite racing classes have flying starts - likely because of safety concerns.
You could change the design of the Mini 5.6 by making the championship sail on a shopping centre car park.... This would favour with good steering and upright seating and slower speeds rather than aerodynamics and flat out speed....
No one said that Mini yachts had to compete on the same surface as the Class5's or Class3's
Or do one day a speed trial on a large circuit and the next day a slalom course on the carpark and average the results.
My take on the I 5.6 mini yachts is that there is very little difference in performance polars from yacht to yacht. The real difference in the race results at Smith Creek is a reflection of the racing experience of the pilots. John probably had the most racing experience in the flukey wind conditions common on high desert playas - and he won.
But, that is only my opinion. Perhaps John may want to comment on his take of the relative importance of superior skill to superior boat?
I do know that mixing novices in with very experienced pilots will not likely lead to an expansion of the sport but to the novices dropping out. Given how tiny the global landsailing community is, dropouts are not a good thing.
Why are novice sailors competing in World or even National championships?...... in ANY class
Where is the personal responsibility of each and every sailor to know when they are and are not capable of sailing at that level?
I don't see a problem with flying starts for the 5.6mini's, Blokart sailors don't seem to have an issue 
This said, maybe some clubs might use their discretion and either for go the flying starts if there are a lot of novice/new sailors, or separate their sailing area or time. If you are racing on a national or world stage I don't see why a sailor wouldn't have considerable experience.
Select to expand quoteGizmo said..
Why are novice sailors competing in World or even National championships?...... in ANY class
Where is the personal responsibility of each and every sailor to know when they are and are not capable of sailing at that level?
I think that you answered your own question above when you wrote,
"The MINI 5.6 is there to be an introduction to the sport for newcomers, often totally inexperienced women and children and on small sailing sites. Then moving on to more advanced race classes."
NALSA/FISLY advertised the Mini 5.6 class for Smith Creek 2015. Although 2000 km away, Smith Creek is the closest land sailing venue to Alberta so I decided to give it a try. I had no opportunity to race or even test my mini before I went. I expected to finish last even though there were a number of other novices entered. Although I knew that John was going, I was surprised at the number of current and former world and national champions from other classes entered in what I thought was basically a novice class. My bad for believing what I read on forums!
For future events, however, it might be useful for NALSA/FISLY to define the intent of the Mini 5.6 class explicitly on their official websites and, if it is a novice class to ensure that the pilots are all novices.
Myself, I plan to focus on sailing my mini 5.6 on snow and ice.
It looks like the EC 2015 5.6 mini racing has been complete.
Here is some info -
As far as I could tell mini 5.6 is an entry class for novice sailors,making that they are quite easy to transport, build and sail. This said i wouldn't expect a race full of novices at a world championships. Though in the future racing formats might cater for novice and experts if required?
This is said I once turned up to a Blokart comp with my mini5.6 and didn't feel too welcome, and left feeling a bit put off... 
Barney831's situation raises an interesting point, at least to me as I am in a similar situation, and that is if a handicap or division system were created for mini5.6 how might that cater for people without clubs or regular sailing practise Session/meetings?
Select to expand quotebarney831 said..
All the champions and former champions, who should not have been allow to compete in a novice class in the first place, can rent or sell their I 5.6 minis to interested newbies and go back to racing in the elite classes where they have had so much success in the past.
The whole reason that the former champions are probably in the 5.6 mini class, is that it is the only class that really allows for experimentation and development.
It is not restricted on sail area and materials used. You can throw down your own design and go race it.
Those former champions are very proficient at what they do and would probably be very hard to beat in any class.
I think this reinforces my belief that this is why they still choose the 5.6. Freedom of design.
This is the only reason I sail and enjoy minis.
I love to design, build, sail and destroy them without all the hassle of those limiting restrictions that apply to every other class.
Why would you want to keep building something exactly the same as everyone else has. Just buy a factory unit. They perform perfectly.
Bet my house or car is nothing like anyone's, that is on here.
Mini's are just an individuals concept of ideas, built to perform.
(look at the Lake Lefroy Mini)
The class is just Brilliant!!!!
The Women 5.6 Mini European Champions. Most of the Minis looked like they were all factory models. Pics link - www.pbase.com:443/waltercarels/ec2015
Select to expand quoteChook2 said..barney831 said..
All the champions and former champions, who should not have been allow to compete in a novice class in the first place, can rent or sell their I 5.6 minis to interested newbies and go back to racing in the elite classes where they have had so much success in the past.
The whole reason that the former champions are probably in the 5.6 mini class, is that it is the only class that really allows for experimentation and development.
It is not restricted on sail area and materials used. You can throw down your own design and go race it.
Those former champions are very proficient at what they do and would probably be very hard to beat in any class.
I think this reinforces my belief that this is why they still choose the 5.6. Freedom of design.
This is the only reason I sail and enjoy minis.
I love to design, build, sail and destroy them without all the hassle of those limiting restrictions that apply to every other class.
Why would you want to keep building something exactly the same as everyone else has. Just buy a factory unit. They perform perfectly.
Bet my house or car is nothing like anyone's, that is on here.
Mini's are just an individuals concept of ideas, built to perform.
(look at the Lake Lefroy Mini)
The class is just Brilliant!!!!
-Same reasons I built a few of my own mini's to sail. I built my second one ( fuselage) with an electrical conduit bender and 7/8'' thin wall round tubing. I skinned the framework with camper/ trailer top alum skin. The traveler uses skateboard bearings. The sheeting system uses screen door rollers. Very obtainable materials.
and what a fine job you did of the build US777 and sailed it to perfection. How gratifying is that? The ultimate I reckon!!!!! 
Probably at a fraction of the cost of the oppositions craft too.
Very well done to all the European champions.
If the factory yachts are at the pointy end of the field in Europe, then the interest in 5.6 hasn't waned.
Those "Carels photos" are sensational. Thanks for sharing. 
I checked the albums out on "Stalk-book" too.
www.pbase.com:443/waltercarels/ec15sat
