With the (pending) and (possible), 2017 FISLY 5.6 mini rule changes, The US 5.6 mini yacht association as desided to change our stance on the US 5.6 rules, We feel the need to open the US 5.6 class to all comercially built yachts, and for the sake of all the pilots who build and experiment and still would like to race their yachts with the other 5.6 minis..
The US 5.6 mini yacht rules, ARE ( two (2) RULES ) (the rope rule) and (wind powered)
total open class no restrictions. that is it, have at it and have fun
BURT/ US306
From what I've read this is 180 degrees from what FISLY were contemplating...should be interesting viewing.
I won't mention the positives of such a decision, though there are a few. Do you think this will adversely affect sailors entering the sport who wish to race but can't afford (time/money/knowledge/time/etc) a 'high-end' 5.6mini landyacht?
So I will now be legal???? 
It fits inside the 5.6 rope and is wind powered.
I do like simple rules but I can see a competitive yacht will cost a packet.
Creating a TRUE international class for any sport is a chance that doesn’t come up often, it’s only happened a few of times in sports. Motor racing, cycling, and yachting, It’s there for the sport of land sailing worldwide at the moment with the mini 5.6 rule.
It needs to be done with a long term view of a sport rather than from a selfish personal biased view from a particular person or country.
FISLY have done an amazing job of formulating the first true world wide class of MINI 5.6 yet some people trying to manipulate the rules for their own personal reasons….why?
One of the reasons the sport has NOT flourished worldwide is there is NO flow through from beginners to top level competition, motorsport is a wonderful example of a well structured sport.
The MINI 5.6 is there to be an introduction to the sport for newcomers, often totally inexperienced women and children and on small sailing sites. Then moving on to more advanced race classes.
If groups create a fragmented versions of a class they undermine the ENTIRE sport not just that class.
This is what has happened in past with VERY poor results.
The proposed specs for the US 5.6 Mini is just plain stupid….. where are the newcomers in the US going to come into the sport?
What they will enter is full on ‘no restriction’ class that will cost an arm and leg.
Some of the high tech materials have and will be used just to ‘win’ in the class but at what cost….. All right for some with VERY selfish and personal reasons.
Please lets just have ONE Mini 5.6 class worldwide and promote the sport for all..
Burt,
If you want to create a FREE design class call it that or some other thing else, be creative with what your group is or wants to be ... BUT do NOT call it a 'MINI' or have '5.6' in the name as this confuses newcomers.
Do the right thing for the sport and land sailers worldwide.
Gizmo makes a good point and is what FISLY is expecting to do (I believe) - create a group for those wishing to go faster (ie: 5.6mini 'open' and 'restricted'). Seems simple enough to me to work with, at least until we try and decide what features fit the 'restricted' or 'open' classifications.
This said, the USA situation is a little different to the rest of the world. I think they have an entry class, this being the Manta. However, the USA may find it hard to attract European landsailors who enjoy the current 5.6mini (or future 5.6mini R class).
unusual for me to say the the US rules are a tad to simple , but I think the wheel restrictions should have remained. other than that Im fine with it . the problem that I see is that all the rules that get proposed are basically there to hold back those that re developing the class and advancing the sport. by resticting them you are killing the sport whilst accusing them of killing the sport . the people you want to simply buy a yacht and expect to win are never going to be happy. i would suggest they buy a blokart and go blokarting. that would solve all their issues.
in terms of cost. the fastest,and most advanced minis around are all built by people who have taught themselves the skills required to design , build and race the machines. they are generally the most giving of knowledge and time to encourage and teach others
I agree with Landyacht. By teaching others the knowledge and skills as well as encouraging helps the sport progress. The fast guys want others to improve, its pointless designing and developing a fast mini if you have no competition.
Designing and building land yachts is an investment in time. Most are made from recycled materials anyway. I think the most exotic material is some carbon fibre that I put on my seat. Nothing too high tech about that. Mini yachts aren't expensive compared to a fully decked out performance blokart. If you have to pay someone else to build YOUR yacht it can be expensive. Designing and building is part of the fun (its not windy every weekend).
I love the mini class more than class 5 because I have the freedom to express and explore my ideas.
The US miniyacht association has been exstablished for the last 11 years and we have endured
the negative responses to the mini class which has changed since the advent of the FISLY 5.6
mini class. We support FISLY! They have done a great job and they will continue to do so.
The US 5.6 mini class is a "US class only!" not ment to be an international class, or to set a precedence
for any other country. We will continue to support FISLY's 5.6 mini class. I understand that in 2017 there may be some rule changes to try and bring back the original intent of the class as an avenue for all ages and skill levels in a safer, more EQUAL racing venue. These pending changes could effect all 5.6 mini yachts with bodies or body types, which would exclude those yachts. We feel there needs to be a place for all pilots and their yachts to race. So, like the UK,
we in the US, will support the FISLY 5.6 mini class. And the unlimited US 5.6 mini class.
Burt/US306
here we go again
another person wanting to do what they want and the rest of the world can go jump
seen it before
i shake my head
Well I guess I will throw my hat into the ring. I have been landsailing for the last 8 years or so and have enjoyed it since day 1.
My rules are, find a large flat spot, wind blowing, setup yacht, go sailing!! No rules, lots of fun. To many rules ruins any novis
sport for anyone, just when you think you got it right, they change the rules. Use the KISS theory, they had a good plan for the
5.6 mini class when it started, Leave it alone. Not many people can afford a 3,000 dollar mini yacht.
I guess there are two issues at play here also. Racing vs. novice entry into the sport, do novice sailors really need to be competitive racing? Would they ever be regardless of yacht? Windcrazy has a point too, anyone can still rock up and sail. And I would argue for any club/group to make sure this can happen. I doubt anyone would argue that you can be competitive without devoting considerable resources, practice likely being the number one.
But I wonder why the current FISLY 5.6mini rules, to which people have already been building to with varied and exotic results, has been deemed too restrictive?
Every time you limit the construction method /material for building a mini you exclude some one some where as not all material sizes/shapes are available. As in class 5 T6 aluminium tubing, for masts, at decent price is not available to individuals in Australia and therefore is a restriction that eliminates us from sailing that class. 
Select to expand quoteGizmo said..
Creating a TRUE international class for any sport is a chance that doesn’t come up often, it’s only happened a few of times in sports. Motor racing, cycling, and yachting, It’s there for the sport of land sailing worldwide at the moment with the mini 5.6 rule.
It needs to be done with a long term view of a sport rather than from a selfish personal biased view from a particular person or country.
FISLY have done an amazing job of formulating the first true world wide class of MINI 5.6 yet some people trying to manipulate the rules for their own personal reasons….why?
One of the reasons the sport has NOT flourished worldwide is there is NO flow through from beginners to top level competition, motorsport is a wonderful example of a well structured sport.
The MINI 5.6 is there to be an introduction to the sport for newcomers, often totally inexperienced women and children and on small sailing sites. Then moving on to more advanced race classes.
If groups create a fragmented versions of a class they undermine the ENTIRE sport not just that class.
This is what has happened in past with VERY poor results.
The proposed specs for the US 5.6 Mini is just plain stupid….. where are the newcomers in the US going to come into the sport?
What they will enter is full on ‘no restriction’ class that will cost an arm and leg.
Some of the high tech materials have and will be used just to ‘win’ in the class but at what cost….. All right for some with VERY selfish and personal reasons.
Please lets just have ONE Mini 5.6 class worldwide and promote the sport for all..
It needs to be done with a long term view of a sport rather than from a selfish personal biased view from a particular person or country.
Every rule change is a selfish biased view from a country or club or interested person otherwise who would change any thing if they had no interest in change
If you wouldn't mind, please rephrase your post to make it a little less confrontational and more constructive. Thank you, Lachlan(admin) 
To all who comment here
I'm going to try and keep this topic friendly and not have it dissolve into something I will have to lock/delete later down the track. The subject is important and warrants discussion, and I know it can raise blood pressure accordingly.
Sorry JohnHS, I had to draw the line somewhere... 
I second the point that Chook made
Your new 5.6 definition includes kite buggies which in many cases will blow minis out of the water because they can carry so much more sail.
How about considering the consequences before jumping in the deep end.
Select to expand quoteSylk said..
I second the point that Chook made
Your new 5.6 definition includes kite buggies which in many cases will blow minis out of the water because they can carry so much more sail.
How about considering the consequences before jumping in the deep end.
wouldnt be very big kite buggies. how about build one that fits in the rope and we try it. you current axle would be rather wide perhaps
Select to expand quotelachlan3556 said..
Gizmo makes a good point and is what FISLY is expecting to do (I believe) - create a group for those wishing to go faster (ie: 5.6mini 'open' and 'restricted'). Seems simple enough to me to work with, at least until we try and decide what features fit the 'restricted' or 'open' classifications.
This said, the USA situation is a little different to the rest of the world. I think they have an entry class, this being the Manta. However, the USA may find it hard to attract European landsailors who enjoy the current 5.6mini (or future 5.6mini R class).
Questions:
Who are the rule makers in FISLY? Are the rule changes that are being considered published anywhere? Has FISLY requested input from interested people or is this purely a top down process?
All the information on FISLY rules that I could find on the internet was dated.
http://www.fisly.org/index.php?id=1
Lots of info if you go exploring the FISLY website.
I'm loving where this is going. This will bring out some outstanding designs on a 5.6mtr wheelbase.
Solid wings, fully faired large diameter wheels, totally enclosed streamlines bodies. The list goes on.
Cant wait to see the creations that will evolve.
Look around us......this is 2015, we cant get stuck in a rut.
If you don't like the rules they play by, don't play their game. Pretty simple really.
Sail a class of yacht that is totally specified or like "landyacht" said, you can buy off the shelf. I really cant see the problem.
If you believe you can just enter land sailing by knocking up a current 5.6 mini class and take on the world, I think you may be disappointed.
Even at our local state level here in West Aust, there is a powerhouse of sailing/building experience and the guys are always sharing techniques to make our craft better. This is the fun part, always improving and at the end of the day the only reason I do this is for my own enjoyment and the friendships it creates.
99% of my sailing is done for pure personal enjoyment. When I can get to an organized event that's just a bonus.
I bet the sketch pads are already smoking in the land of the stars and stripes.
When the mini 5.6 rules came in they were locked in for a period of 4 years to stop the constant changing of regulations, by doing so it has established some consistency.
So I doubt if there were to be changes in the future they would only be minor. Unfortunately the U.S. has tried to modify the rules to suit their own needs limiting the US yachts in international events and international yachts in US events, why people would go down that path is beyond me.
One of the reasons the Mini 5.6 rule came in was to establish a truly International yacht class.
If you were after more specific details about FISLY / rule changes etc. I suggest that you contact them directly rather than use a forum often based around speculation.
Select to expand quoteISelect to expand quoteGizmo said..
When the mini 5.6 rules came in they were locked in for a period of 4 years to stop the constant changing of regulations, by doing so it has established some consistency.
So I doubt if there were to be changes in the future they would only be minor. Unfortunately the U.S. has tried to modify the rules to suit their own needs limiting the US yachts in international events and international yachts in US events, why people would go down that path is beyond me.
One of the reasons the Mini 5.6 rule came in was to establish a truly International yacht class.
If you were after more specific details about FISLY / rule changes etc. I suggest that you contact them directly rather than use a forum often based around speculation.
Thanks again, Gizmo. The 4 year period appears to end next year and, based on what Lachlan3556 posted above, it appeared that discussions of rules were already underway - somewhere by someone. I was just trying to find out what is being discussed.
I have no problems with the current International mini yacht specs. I do have some concerns about how the races are run, in particular, about the flying start for a race of more than 40 minis with no effective brakes, like last year at Smith Creek. Although I like the idea of a flying start for sailboats going ~6 - 10 knots, it doesn't seem very safe for a large number of minis going much faster.
I would have thought that actual localised race details are more of concern of the local site club / group rather than the International Sport Governing Body.
Who were the site / race organisers at Smith Creek?
Who devised the starting setup at that event, was it NALSA or FISLY or someone else?
I have to agree moving starts can often be a nightmare, stationary starts with the pilot in the yacht seem to be the standard for many places these days, I actually love running push starts.
www.fisly.org/rules/isrr.pdf
I found these details...
nalsa.org/Worlds2014Pages/RaceInfo.html
nalsa.org/Worlds2014Pages/StartZone.html
Did you or anyone else make any comment officially to FISLY or NALSA about the starting problems so it could be taken into account for future events via emails, Facebook or the FISLY forum? If not how would they know there was dissatisfaction?
Perhaps we are getting a bit side tracked from the original thread subject.
Select to expand quotebarney831 said..
I have no problems with the current International mini yacht specs. I do have some concerns about how the races are run, in particular, about the flying start for a race of more than 40 minis with no effective brakes, like last year at Smith Creek. Although I like the idea of a flying start for sailboats going ~6 - 10 knots, it doesn't seem very safe for a large number of minis going much faster.
over the last few years we have trialed flying starts for both mini and class5, . lefroy is a great comparison for nUS sites as we both have big open areas for starting,
as the starter for most of those races here are my impressions.
2 minutes is too long, 1 minute would be fine , many yachts are onto a 3rd or fourth lap by the staart.
good pilots do it well ,bad pilots do it badly. the longer the start time the higher likelyhood of bingles.
in light to moderate winds ,class 5 yachts are fine , in fact its better in lighter winds,and the not so savvy pilots and heavier pilots place better with flying starts.
the only people who seem to complain are those who stress over 1 or 2 seconds over the line. the complaints are usually a tad silly , and being landsailors no problem has occured where the offended pilot has decide to fork out $15 a protest. Ive only seen 1 bingle where yacht damage has occured and in my opinion that was a case of throwing common sense out of the window in favour of demanding your rights even though you know the other yacht just cant manouver. in stronger winds class 5 needs a standing start.
in the one bit of video Ive seen of the minis starting in Nevada , my impressions were that a down wind start isnt a very good idea anyway, and the goodpilot/bad pilot observation applied .
Learning to get a good start ,standing or otherwise is one of the most critical parts of a race. most of the time the best starter is the winner, so go out on non race days and set up a course and spend the day starting , especially in light winds, add that to the days spent learning to corner and drift turn and you will soon improve
My preference is for line starts, To me it seems fairer and eliminates the risk of pain or damage before the race has even started.
My concern about flying starts for the Mini 5.6 class stems from my understanding of the intent of the Mini class.
If, as Gizmo states above,
"The MINI 5.6 is there to be an introduction to the sport for newcomers, often totally inexperienced women and children and on small sailing sites. Then moving on to more advanced race classes."
then I believe a flying start is totally inappropriate.
The Mini 5.6 class at Smith Creek, however, was not a novice class. It contained an eclectic mix from homebuilts with wheelbarrow wheels to factory sponsored all-out racing machines. The pilots' experience spanned the spectrum from total neophytes to former champions in big boat classes with decades of racing experience. Not a good formula for a flying start IMHO.
Finally, if Gizmo is correct, why would a current or former world champion want to compete in a novice class? Is it because they still have an empty spot in their trophy case or is it simply a compulsive need to win?
On the other hand, if Gizmo is not correct, what is the intent of the Mini class? Perhaps this needs to be clarified first.
I like a lot of people have been surprised at the rapid development of the Mini 5.6 class and as a suggestion of rather trying to limit or restrict it at the start by design rules and restrictions etc. (which will be manipulated by most people for their own benefits) why not look at the other end.... on the track.
For example many sports use a handicap system of some sort Golf, Horse racing and 'wet' sailing from dinghy racing to ocean racing ALL use handicap. It could be in several way for land sailing, here are just a few suggestions.
By the number of years in the sport... i.e. newcomers get an advantage of some sort.
Weight restrictions.
Or by a numerical handicap system that gives a 'corrected time' which favours 'personal' improvement rather than just first over the line. this is what is used in 'wet' sailing so even small dinghys can race EQUALLY with catarmarans or much faster boats.
If a handicap system like this was used then a fleet of 40 land yachts could be divided easily into categories like open frame, pilot experience, seating position or even color of the yacht..... the results are done by numbers after the finish.
Its easy enough to do the calculations with a calculator but these days with PC's and spread sheets it would be a breeze.
Ok there would still be a prize for 'Line Honours' but the most sought after prize is to win 'Handicap Honours'
Another advantage with a handicap system is that multiple classes could be raced at the same time giving everyone a LOT more time sailing.
Here is a brief explanation of how it works... http://www.somertonyc.com.au/handicap-calculation/
itunes.apple.com/au/app/sailing-handicap-calculator/id589988587?mt=8
