In my opinion, the primary drawback with using a Tablet is sunlight viewability.
I've had a couple of tablets for personal usage, and neither had enough contrast to be used in sunlight, or even very bright light.
For me, that's the only real advantage of custom chartplotters - I actually dislike marine electronics manufacturers because they generally try to "lock" you in to their product line, and to continue to buy new versions of their stuff (hardware and software).
With third party waterproof rugged cases, I can keep my tablet dry in the cockpit, but I need it to be viewable in the cockpit without having to make shade just to glance at my position.
Now I know there are specialised tablets out there used by mining and army applications that have sunlight viewable screens (expensive), and am just waiting for that technology to work its way into consumer tablets. It will, it's just a question of time.
In fact, I may ask whether anyone reading this forum has per chance come across a consumer tablet with sunlight viewable screen? (and just for reference, I've tried all the Apple iPads, and no, in my opinion their screens are not sunlight viewable)
Thanks for the link fishmonkey, Armorglass looks like good protection for a tablet screen. Although when I have tried anti-glare covers in the past they definitely reduced reflections but did not make the tablet sunlight viewable.
Think about it this way; if a recent model custom chartplotter mounted in the cockpit did not have an anti-glare screen surface, its contrast is so good you could still read it in bright light. With the current Tablets, I'd have to use both hands, hunch over, shield the screen to create some darkness in order to read the map properly. Of course, on a cloudy day legibility is quite ok.
If you were a pilot, would you use a tablet to navigate?
Well, the same principal should apply to yachting.
I use a raymarine plotter which can be paired to the iPad as an extra screen when down below. I also run navionics on the iPad so it can be used as a stand alone navigation device . Have found it handy when the course is already in the plotter and you want to do a side track excursion. Just plot your new course on the iPad and follow it using the plotter to double check where you are.
Select to expand quotesirgallivant said..
If you were a pilot, would you use a tablet to navigate?
Well, the same principal should apply to yachting.
That's not really a like for like analogy in my opinion. But in the context I think you a meaning, then yes and it's been an approved source for a few years now.
scary huh 
Er, if we all agree that navigating with only a paper chart is fine, surely paper chart plus tablet is also ok?
Cheers
Bristle
Yes, l wholeheartedly agree with both of you, oldboyracer and bristle.
Why? Because both of you are using the tablet or phone as a secondary implement, as a toy, not a principal nav aid. Nothing wrong with that.
I know l am a bit harsh here degrading the tablet as a toy but as long as they are as they are, not marinised, unreliable in sunlight and wet conditions, they are toys.
No serious coastal or off shore sailor would rely entirely on any of them gadgets.
With charts and or chart plotters they are very useful gadgets.
Paper charts for the area of operation, Hand bearing compass, Capt Fields parallel rule, dividers, pencils, sounder and a late model hand held GPS unit such as a Garmin 72H are all the tools one needs to safely navigate the world. I think the Garmin has world tide times in it.
A brain that knows how to use them helps.
There are other gadgets that are defined as "Aids to Navigation" but the above list is adequate and minimum required unless you know how to use a sextant and sight reduction tables.
What an absolute joke.
I can see the skipper of the super tanker now telling the guy on the bridge.
Dont beleive what the electronics are telling you, get the hand bearing compass and the paper chart out and triangulate our position.
Its midnight and blowing 30 knots with 5m seas and we are 2 miles off a lea shore.
"...unless you know how to use a sextant and sight reduction tables."
Do you?
"What an absolute joke. "
No, it isn't. But what you describing is! 
I used to know how to take and reduce morning, midday and afternoon shots and plot the lines of position on the chart but that was 1979.
That kind of navigation is not for coastal work though.
In 1972-1974 the officer of the watch on Australian Navy Patrol boats was required to plot the ship's position on the chart every 10 minutes, day and night which was done mostly using compass bearing fixes.
There was no GPS but there was radar which was used mainly to plot other traffic.
So I put it to RiffRaff, what would you do if you had a complete failure of all your electronics???
With respect riff raff, the original poster has a 28' yacht and is discussing the first steps in electronic navigation. The thread is really around coastal / sheltered waters. The world of large, International commercial shipping is something else.
Having said that, all the commercial, naval and sailing professionals I've met would do just fine if their electronic nav went down.
Cheers
Bristol
We are talking about coastal navigation aren't we???
I would say in this modern tech world, the likely hood of loosing ALL your gizmos at the same time would be as likely as taking a wave and getting your paper chart all wet.
So let me put it to you this way. In the day prior to GPS and fancy plotters, your paper chart was likely at your nav table or elsewhere in the cabin nice and safe. If it were to be on deck, then it has just as much chance of getting wet or lost as the modern day tablets, and will render chart just as useless. If you too were to keep a tablet downstairs as you would your chart, then there will not be the glare issue or wetting issues that is disputed here. Now of course I am only talking about using the two different methods the same i.e. either inside or outside and not mounting the tablet.
Most people also likely have two electronic devices, either a 'marinised' plotter and a tablet or a tablet and likely also on a smartphone. The latter two are independent of the ships electronics and the latter two would almost have zero likelyhood of failing at the same time. So for coastal sailing I think you would have no problem of finding your way home.
I actually like using charts and will be using them on my up and coming cruise. But like sextants are a thing of the past, so will one day be physical paper charts.
The world is changing, you need to get on or be left behind.
If you only have a smartphone running navionics, something like this could be handy to get a bigger screen display, if the price is right.
www.kickstarter.com/projects/brentmorgan/superscreen
Select to expand quoteToph said..
We are talking about coastal navigation aren't we???
I would say in this modern tech world, the likely hood of loosing ALL your gizmos at the same time would be as likely as taking a wave and getting your paper chart all wet.
So let me put it to you this way. In the day prior to GPS and fancy plotters, your paper chart was likely at your nav table or elsewhere in the cabin nice and safe. If it were to be on deck, then it has just as much chance of getting wet or lost as the modern day tablets, and will render chart just as useless. If you too were to keep a tablet downstairs as you would your chart, then there will not be the glare issue or wetting issues that is disputed here. Now of course I am only talking about using the two different methods the same i.e. either inside or outside and not mounting the tablet.
Most people also likely have two electronic devices, either a 'marinised' plotter and a tablet or a tablet and likely also on a smartphone. The latter two are independent of the ships electronics and the latter two would almost have zero likelyhood of failing at the same time. So for coastal sailing I think you would have no problem of finding your way home.
I actually like using charts and will be using them on my up and coming cruise. But like sextants are a thing of the past, so will one day be physical paper charts.
The world is changing, you need to get on or be left behind.
Ah the voice of reason. I think I may get left behind!
I have sextant and know how to use it....as well as a compass, chart and 2b pencil. Oh and a handheld garmin GPS with a tiny screen... My phone has GPS. It is not a toy, it will tell me where I am way better than any sextant, even with horizontal sights or the distance off tables.
My boat is 80 years old and has thoroughly modern solar panels to power the batteries for the bilge pumps. Thats it. No lights, 3hp outboard, oil nav lights which are surprisingly good, gaff rig.
At 5 knots max I am getting left behind by everybody anyway so I just wave and carry on.
Simple but it is enough. Try it sometime, I think you will like it.
I have to admit, l ran into something today l thought will never happen. I was navigating in Killarney Heights and my chart plotter - yes, the almighty chart plotter l praised so much recently - could not give me any more detailed depth info so, horribile dictu, l turned to the recently maligned tablet with MMap on it!
It worked perfectly - sunlight or not - and showed a much more detailed picture of the depth situation than my plotter.
I ended up navigating the top part of the Bay on the tablet with full satisfaction, l have to add.
Yes, the tablet is a very good suplementary nav aid!
I am short to eating humble pie as l never discounted the usefulness of the almighty tablet, and l am just not ready to toss my chart plotter nor my charts, parallel ruler and my 2B into the briney, the tablet's advantages could not be overlooked.
What I have taken away from your opinions Sirgalivant is that you had never knocked the programmes/software itself, but the practicality of a tablet, and that is a fair enough opinion. what maps software are you using on Mmap? I use the Aus Quickcharts package and if you are using the same, than as you'll be aware the info giving to you is exactly the same as on a chart. Zooming in or out does not give you any more or any less information. Taking away the issue of power supply/power failure, in my opinion the above combo is more than just supplementary. But anyway, that is just my opinion.Select to expand quoteMEGAMAX said..
Ah the voice of reason. I think I may get left behind!
I have sextant and know how to use it....as well as a compass, chart and 2b pencil. Oh and a handheld garmin GPS with a tiny screen... My phone has GPS. It is not a toy, it will tell me where I am way better than any sextant, even with horizontal sights or the distance off tables.
My boat is 80 years old and has thoroughly modern solar panels to power the batteries for the bilge pumps. Thats it. No lights, 3hp outboard, oil nav lights which are surprisingly good, gaff rig.
At 5 knots max I am getting left behind by everybody anyway so I just wave and carry on.
Simple but it is enough. Try it sometime, I think you will like it.
Im not sure if you are being facetious or not there Megamaz, but just to clarify, I have no problems (in fact respect) those using an old art form and keeping it alive. Just like those building wooded boats with hand tools. Personally I would use routers and all other kids of power tools
I was just trying to suggest there are failings in the paper charts too (human error and accuracy being a big one) and that one day, paper charts would be done with too. As for your last sentence, I agree simple is good. I like it, I know I do. But I like sailing/camping with my wife and kids and to do that I need a little more mod comforts otherwise they just aint coming 
Select to expand quoteToph said..
What I have taken away from your opinions Sirgalivant is that you had never knocked the programmes/software itself, but the practicality of a tablet, and that is a fair enough opinion. what maps software are you using on Mmap? I use the Aus Quickcharts package and if you are using the same, than as you'll be aware the info giving to you is exactly the same as on a chart. Zooming in or out does not give you any more or any less information. Taking away the issue of power supply/power failure, in my opinion the above combo is more than just supplementary. But anyway, that is just my opinion.MEGAMAX said..
Ah the voice of reason. I think I may get left behind!
I have sextant and know how to use it....as well as a compass, chart and 2b pencil. Oh and a handheld garmin GPS with a tiny screen... My phone has GPS. It is not a toy, it will tell me where I am way better than any sextant, even with horizontal sights or the distance off tables.
My boat is 80 years old and has thoroughly modern solar panels to power the batteries for the bilge pumps. Thats it. No lights, 3hp outboard, oil nav lights which are surprisingly good, gaff rig.
At 5 knots max I am getting left behind by everybody anyway so I just wave and carry on.
Simple but it is enough. Try it sometime, I think you will like it.
Im not sure if you are being facetious or not there Megamaz, but just to clarify, I have no problems (in fact respect) those using an old art form and keeping it alive. Just like those building wooded boats with hand tools. Personally I would use routers and all other kids of power tools
I was just trying to suggest there are failings in the paper charts too (human error and accuracy being a big one) and that one day, paper charts would be done with too. As for your last sentence, I agree simple is good. I like it, I know I do. But I like sailing/camping with my wife and kids and to do that I need a little more mod comforts otherwise they just aint coming
Hi Toph,
just a gentle dig. My set up is a mix of old and new that keeps me safe. I have a chart chip in the GPS with the entire western seaboard that shows depths, yellow land bits to avoid etc. The WA govt issues really good coastal charts that are way better than the Hydro ones and you can download them for free. Yay WA! I print them in A3 which is about right for my cockpit and if they get wet I have full size below. Print another when I get home.
I only draw 4' and can fix with a compass but features can be sparse around here so the GPS is dead easy. For pilotage a chart and compass is fine. My issue is at night as my eyes are crap so the GPS although small does the job. I use old technology but for safety I have GPS, GPS enabled EPIRB, flares, torch that could cook a roast at 40 yards and ALWAYS wear a life jacket. Not because some little Hitler told me to, but because one would be stupid to have the brilliant technology available today for safety and not use it.
My only shortfall is I have to rely on the charts for depth as I don't have a depth finder. I have to make allowance for this but to anchor I can drop a line to get depth for scope etc.
I think we are slightly off the original topic but I thank it is a bit of Ford vs Holden, Engle vs whatever that other one is, kind of loop. Use GPS, use charts, learn to fix cause its not too hard and could be useful. After all we sail which is arcane anyway, no matter whether wood, fibreglass, steel etc.
I am enjoying the thread as I am always interested in how people solve the eternal navigation question.
I used to work with Morning Bird in another life and he used a chart and pencil to cover lots of sea and come back to mother safely. That was navigation of the highest order.
Select to expand quotecisco said..
I used to know how to take and reduce morning, midday and afternoon shots and plot the lines of position on the chart but that was 1979.
That kind of navigation is not for coastal work though.
In 1972-1974 the officer of the watch on Australian Navy Patrol boats was required to plot the ship's position on the chart every 10 minutes, day and night which was done mostly using compass bearing fixes.
There was no GPS but there was radar which was used mainly to plot other traffic.
So I put it to RiffRaff, what would you do if you had a complete failure of all your electronics???
I am not saying that there is no benefit in using compass and chart.
But it is 2017 and the compass, chart and sextant should be your contingency plan not your primary source of navigation.
Toph it is the Quickcharts thingo raster charts of AHO fame. EC version of above.
That is the one l like, running CMap (jeppesens) vector charts based on WGS84 on plotter, good complimet to each other.
Select to expand quoteRiffRaff said..
I am not saying that there is no benefit in using compass and chart.
But it is 2017 and the compass, chart and sextant should be your contingency plan not your primary source of navigation.
Equally I am not saying there is no benefit in having a chart plotter. We came across the notorious Wide Bay Bar at the southern end of Fraser Island at midnight on a dead low tide three years ago and could not have done it except for Gary down below calling the shots using navionics on an iPhone.
Daytime in Qld your primary source for navigation is your eyeballs and referencing to a chart, be it paper or electronic. There are only two or three rocks along the whole coast to be wary of. Anything you can hit you can see.
Legally one must carry paper charts for the area of operation. That I do and mark a GPS position on it at least every hour if in passage. With that done if there is an electronics failure you at least have a recent reference point on the chart. Another benefit is that it helps fill in the time on a long passage.
One thing that bothers me with vector charts even on a say 9" screen is the clutter at certain levels of zoom such as when the chart is near the change of layer with zoom.
Not all of us can afford or have the space for large displays like southace and Ramona have.
I was just tinkering with my various devices.
I have 3 android devices on board. Each has navionics (1 subscription does all), saildroid for basic instruments /gps inc waypoints, GPS status for compass stuff plus the usual range of weather apps. All free apart from navionics. They also provide Internet access, tv, radio, newspapers, local info and marine rescue log on/off.
Oh, and a tuner for my guitar!
Google maps is brilliant for everything shore based.
Why wouldn't you have a few of these modern miracles around?
My "old faithful" cost ?100 in Tesco Supermarket in the uk and just keeps going. The others are the very reliable Google Nexus and a (non exploding) Samsung phone. The phone is fantastic for a quick check of charts whilst planning in the cafe/pub/bed.
I have a garmin battery powered handheld gps just in case - and loads of batteries.
Weirdly "Alibi" came with 3 steering compasses - plus the fluxgate on the autohelm and the sighting compass makes 5.
Still love my paper charts and brass dividers though.
It's not going to be a lack of equipment that gets me lost!
Cheers
Bristle
Select to expand quoteBristolfashion said..
It's not going to be a lack of equipment that gets me lost!
Cheers
Bristle
You got that right Bristle. I am all for having back ups on a yacht at sea but one needs to keep in mind that every unnecessary kilo is slowing you down.
Standard on my yacht is compass, a marine chart plotter/fish finder, cheap auxiliary sounder/ fish finder, speed/log, paper charts, rules, dividers, pencils etc and one or two handheld GPSs, and of course a couple of VHF radios. I think that list is min' required for a coastal yacht and has cost me less than $2,000.
What I am looking for is a military grade waterproof tablet that will do all of the above (not sounder though it is possible) and will do fast internet and all that comes with it such as business centre, movies, music and other forms of gratis entertainment.
Any suggestions where or what I can get??
Select to expand quotesirgallivant said..
This quote is from the Practical Boat Owner web site after testing 14 apps as nav aids.
This was their conclusion:
"...So, would we use these apps for genuine navigation? The answer is a resounding 'yes'. The battery life and non-marinised nature of a tablet means you'd be mad not to have a proper marine GPS on board too but, with a failsafe, a tablet is a great way to get a plotter in your cockpit on a budget."
And here l would like to draw your precious attention to the words
'...you would be mad not to have a proper marine GPS on board too...'
Comment is not necessary.
After all, until every boat had two GPSs, not a single person in the history of the world ever survived a trip outside the harbour.
I think there have been more fatalities caused by racing boats hitting Australia since GPS than we ever had before it was invented. Obviously it's a great system, but PBO is mad to claim that it's mad to sail without it.
So I took the ipad to the local Apple store and they told me it was a generation 4. It means it has built
in GPS. The iOS however (thanks Toph) was 8.1.3 and Navionics needs at least 8.2. So the nice man
pressed a few buttons and I got a FREE update to 10.3.1 Looks like I'm all set to go but the ipads
telling me there's no SIM card in it. Do you guys use a SIM card or a modem. I do have a modem.
Advice needed.
Select to expand quotesamsturdy said..
So I took the ipad to the local Apple store and they told me it was a generation 4. It means it has built
in GPS. The iOS however (thanks Toph) was 8.1.3 and Navionics needs at least 8.2. So the nice man
pressed a few buttons and I got a FREE update to 10.3.1 Looks like I'm all set to go but the ipads
telling me there's no SIM card in it. Do you guys use a SIM card or a modem. I do have a modem.
Advice needed.
Pretty sure you don't need a SIM card, the Inbuilt GPS will still work, though initial acquisition might take a little longer.
Go to settings and turn off mobile data or put it in flight mode and then turn wifi back on, to try to stop the annoying SIM card message.
you will need wifi to download apps etc. if you dont have a home wifi setup, just go to McDonalds etc and use their free wifi.
if you buy navionics, run it whilst on a wifi connection and zoom in close to the areas you want the maps loaded. When you zoom back out, you will see the areas downloaded as white, you can then use it offline in the white areas.
That's really good info FR. It will be such a help if I don't have to power it with a SIM card
or modem. I may well go and sit outside the Apple shop to do it, if I get in strife I can nick
in there. Thanks mate.
I use my mobile phones hotspot to connect my iPad to the internet when I don't have a SIM card installed, that way I can download the maps I need on the boat prior to leaving. You can also take screen shots to boast to your mates how fast your boat goes
