Boat construction for bluewater cruising

That Mason is nice, but what a sharp witted person is the broker putting in multiple pictures of the V berth, settee table, galley, nav station and none of the hull, rigging, deck, cockpit or God forbid the accommodation area, tender etc.

What a brilliant broker!

As Bristle pointed out supporting my earlier observation, some modern production line yachts are designed with inherent weaknesses as far as cruising is concerned. Strength is sacrificed on the altar of ease of manufacture, lower production costs, higher profits or just vogue of the day.
Simple, in the past well adhered to principles are discarded trusting the modern, no doubt much stronger space age materials.

Which construction could one trust more just by looks and feel?

This is my trusted Adams 28 with proven credentials, staggered keel bolts and a keel-skeg combination which is working well in all situations either dodging flotsam, crab pots or minor groundings as well as being overvhelmed by an occasional beam wave sliding sideways easily because of the construction of the hull.




This Bavaria 42, which must be inspected after the slightest grounding, would not stand up to any of the above mentioned torture tests with it's bottom-heavy narrow keel, most likely non staggered keel bolts, and balanced spade rudder. The odd conctruction of this type of keel would act as an anchor in any grounding however minor.

This is the most likely occurrence in a minor grounding.
The bottom is sandy, the keel is shaped as it is, would survive with no apparent ill effect as long as the bottom is not rock or corall. Even then, it most probably would survive the ordeal.



The survivability of a knock down is in many instances depends on the capability of the hull sliding sideways and so, releasing the huge lifting forces of the waves which are trying to lift the keel and tip the hull over the point of no return usually 135-140 degrees resulting in a roll over. A short stubby or full keel would make the hull slide sideways while a long bulbed one would act like an anchor and most likely tip the hull over.
The situation is similar in the case of a major grounding like hitting a reef. The shorter, stubbier keel is more likely to survive.




A keel like above (dehler 34) would not survive any mishap in case of a grounding bar a very minor one in soft grounds like mud and a knock down would develop forces at the keel bolts unheard of around the design table. Those modern keels would act as anchors in many situations mentioned above especially the forward pointed bulb keel which would catch and hang on to anything in it's way, soft or solid wrenching the keel out of it's socket.

The modern design might be fast efficient and cheap to manufacture but when the crap hits the fan they would most likely scatter in all directions.

I've got keel bolt envy, I've only got 1

Whatever construction you look at has good and bad points, but a boat that won,t sail well will disappoint you every time you go out. I like multis and for them foam or cedar composite , but there is still plenty of good well built plywood and epoxy boats which is what I have at the moment. Timber if sealed in epoxy doesn't have a lot of things going wrong with it.

Freeradical, both, the Bavaria and the Dehlers are marketed as 'cruiser-racers' whatever that suppose to mean?

Of course, there is nothing wrong with timber in boat building just the modern world's attitude is different.

Old is out, modern is in.

It has a lot to do with relentless advertising and brainwashing.
What was wrong with hemp until DuPont - the largest artificial material producer in the world - decided, hemp is the bane of humanity and banned it all around the world using false reasons.

Dexport, good on ya, you looking forward to some exciting times!

Thanks for all the input. I already have a French cruiser racer and for what I do with it the boat is fantastic. Our family of 4 can very happily cruise for 3-4 weeks at a time throughout the Gulf's of SA and Kangaroo island which has been brilliant. However while our current boat is in great condition, the family is getting larger and our plans are getting more ambitious with further afield sailing in mind, hence the need to change boats.

My thoughts are for a construction method that does not risk water ingress into cavities. I have previously owned foam cored race boats and when I bought it I drilled a hole into the foam at the lowest point and drained the water our which took a number of days, then there was a recoring process that I definitely do not want to repeat. Hence my original post about the qualities of wood cored boats eg: fibreglass carvel or glass over kauri stripped. I am not keen on steel but would consider aluminium but they are mostly too expensive (Onvi drool...). Main criteria are skeg hung rudder, after that I am flexible with different keel configurations, although I am not a fan of a full keel due to the lack of manoeuvrability.

Thanks also for people throwing options of boats for sale. We have put that Warwick onto our short list and while I have seen that Mason before while browsing and I think she is beautiful and very well equipped.

I agree that there could be better photos of Inez, the Mason 44 that Boty and dralyagmas have commented on favourably.

I'm very happy to put them in direct touch with the owner for more details and better pictures. He is pretty motivated at present as in a shed somewhere in Tassie, construction of his new yacht progresses apace .

There is a really nice Constellation Brewer 44 listed on yachthub. Lots of recent updates. Great sea boat for under 130k.

Tony Bull posted this link on Facebook. Worth a read.

www.yachtingmonthly.com/yacht-reviews/understand-boat-statistics-30154

Purely from the serious cruisers point of view the ORC type boats were not built for cruising and were cantankerous beast in need of large crews to keep them tamed.

Designs like Lars Bergstrom's and Lavaranos's amongst others - who were constantly pushing the envelope with their designs amongst them their offshore cruisers - have been taken up by the French and eventually developed into our modern IRC and BOC racing boats.
Lightly built hulls, vertical bows, full warterlines, balanced spade rudders, fancy deep keels, high aspect ratio rigs, laminated or carbon fibre sails are hardly a requirement for a serious cruising yacht in corall infested cruising grounds. Serious cruising, not a hop to the next Marina few miles away, l mean.

Lots of design features of those racers have been taken up by the designers of the 'racer-cruiser' which is an oddity. Like motorbikes, guns or cars for all occasions. Neither fowl nor fish, full of compromises, production line-built for profit and to satisfy the unsuspecting, ignorant and technically uneducated public's dreams of owning a yacht for all occasions!

This doesn't mean they are un-sailable, far from it, they are cruised on and raced frequently at SAGS and WAGS and all other events. They are a bit of everything or they claim, but not excelling in any fields except a few which has been designed and built as racers rather.
Unfortunately, the rest of those yachts though motored a lot, seldom sailed well and spend their miserable life's as gin palaces at popular marinas. They could be pontoons for entertainment as well, or they rot on their moorings forgotten and unloved.

Specialised yachts like Shaggy's are wonderful racing machines while a Mason, Island Packet or Halberg Rassy, Bluewater 420CC or 420RS (which are built at Cardiff NSW presently) are cruisers built for one purpose not to claim other qualities.