LPG Compliance

Hi All,

My Phantom 32 has a very useful LPG stove and BBQ. with the gas bottle mounted outside on the pushpit. Currently in at the marina to have a gas sniffer fitted. The gas fitter wants to also install a bilge blower (which will necessitate an outlet on the topsides) before giving the system compliance.

Does anyone know if a sniffer and blower are required for compliance in NSW??? Seems a bit of overkill if I always turn the gas off at the bottle when I am finished cooking.

Cheers,

Mark

Phantom 32 "Aruba"

Gas fitter now tells me, "no blower - no compliance, no compliance - no insurance". He estimates the total cost to bring my LPG system (that has worked fine on the boat for the past 15 yrs) up to current compliance standards would be about $1000.

I am actually considering taking out the old LPG stove and taking the stainless steel BBQ off the pushpit and installing a two burner metho stove instead, which would cost about $500 and be safer and simpler (though a hell of a lot slower for cooking) and less convenient than the LPG set up.

What do others think about the LPG/metho decision, now compliance requirements are so rigorous???

They have a compressed natural gas filling station at 7/11 service station Heathcote road moorebank maybe give them a call or go out and have a look

I think metho is fairly dangerous to work with at sea. If you spill it and it ignites, you can hardly even see the flames. If you are doing ocean passages I would suggest going with gas compliance if the stove is a proper S/S unit with two or more burners on top and an oven or getting a proper kerosene stove like the one HG has on his H28.

If you are doing limited coastal cruising, think of how much you would be using an oven. A Weber Q or other hooded BBQ on the transom rail would probably suffice. For down below you could consider making up a gimballed frame or stainless sheet box and mounting a couple of these units in it.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PRIMUS-STOVE-PRESSURE-STOVE-CAMPING-STOVE-PARAFFIN-STOVE-KEROSENE-STOVE-/121749088186?hash=item1c58cfa7ba

There are a host of parts available for them on ebay and I estimate half the populations of China and India cook on them every day.

Kero stoves need metho for preheating the burner but only small amounts and once the kero is burning you get a very hot flame. It is allegedly hot enough to melt steel frames in sky scrapers like the World Trade Centre Towers 15 years ago. Take that one with a grain of salt.

Stoves on yachts are a vexatious problem and you need to consider the pros and cons of each alternative and work out which is most practical for you.

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StormPetrel said..
Maybe the best plan would be to keep the LPG and BBQ but disconnect it from the rest of the boat and go back to metho inside. Hopefully no compliance issues. Anyone using this arrangement?

I have on my cruiser a metho stove, and a LPG BBQ. I was led to believe only just a fortnight ago that you only need a compliance certificate if the gas is plumbed (WA). So a gas bottle running directly to a BBQ should be ok. Of course the requirement for a blower is due to where the bottle may be stored and a gas leak will still settle in the bottom of the bilge. My Bottle is in a bracket on the transom (open air).

Also be very weary of recommendations of using BBQs such as the Weber Q on a boat. Weber advice the Q is not suitable for use on a boat. Of course there are plenty of people that do, but if the reason for compliance is for insurance purposes, then you may find your insurance company not keen to payout...

From my understanding, that should be alright. But run it past the gas fitter and see what they say.

The law roughly in Qld and NSW is that a boat sold must have a gas certificate. In S.A u need to only hold one if its a new registration.
i sold my last yacht and removed the gas bottle to avoid the extra expence and hassle of getting another gas certificate.
have you just fitted the gas?
User at own risk is my moral now.

Yes but they don't always ask for it!

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StormPetrel said..
True, but apparently they can use the lack of current gas compliance not to pay up in the event of a fire.

You don't get gas fires. You get explosions. So if the boat catches fire and there are no gas appliances or plumbing below and the fire causes the gas bottle hanging off your transom to explode and take the back end of your boat with it, I think the insurance company will still have to pay up.

Best thing is to talk with your insurer.

Well after considerable thought I have decided to get rid of the LPG totally including the BBQ. Never liked the look of the gas bottle and BBQ hanging off the transom anyway. I can also live without an oven so I an just going back to a two burner metho stove.

Next question Maxi or Origo??

Hi, thought I'd join the forum.

I like pressure kero, as it has a high energy content, it is like cooking
with gas, and does not explode like LPG.

Since kero has such high energy content, it is possible to carry enough
fuel for cooking to last a year.

However pressure kero is high maintenance. The burners can clog up with
carbon. There are various ways to fettle them as discussed on:

classiccampstoves.com/

And in the book by Nigel Calder: Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual.

Marine pressure kero stoves require adjustable burners. I see cheap burners
on ebay without any type of adjustment, I don't know how you can use those.

There are now excellent Hanse No 1 burners available, reviewed here:

www.yachtingmonthly.com/gear/tried-and-tested-new-taylors-burners-28274

They are available here:

www.toplicht.de/en/shop/ofen-herd-und-kocher/oelregler-und-brennerzubehoer/taylors-zubehoer
www.base-camp.co.uk/exploded%20views/Optimus/207%20burner.htm

Taylors still make Pressure kero stoves and ovens. Hal Roth How To Sail
Around the World: p.363 "I do not recommend the 029 Model". Chapter 24 has
stories of boats taking lots of precautions with LPG and still exploding,
with deaths and loosing limbs.

Hanse make a 2 burner stove, also crazy expensive:

www.weimeister.com/sortiment/kocher/

I guess it would be possible to convert pressure alcohol stoves to
pressure kero by replacing the burners with the Hanse No 1 burners.

I wonder if a second hand marine LPG stove could be converted to pressure
kero, I guess that would most likely require remote mounting the pressure
tank, as is done on the Taylors stoves.

Pressure kero stoves can be scary to learn how to use them. It is necessary
to have something like a frypan or pot, maybe with a little water in it
to absorb the heat, nearby to stop the flames hitting the headliner when
there is a flare up.

The way to light a pressure kero burner is to check there is kero and pressure
in the tank. Ensure the burner control is in the off position. If there is
any kero in the burner cup, to soak it up first with a rag. Pour some
metho in the cup at the base of the burner. Light it by say dropping a lit
match into the metho. Then it is important to wait for the metho to burn
out, as trying to rush this procedure will result in a flare up. After the
metho has burnt out, then turn on the control knob and light it with a match.
If it works then it burns with a blue flame and it hisses.

If something goes wrong with lighting the burner then the result is a flare
up. The yellow flames may hit the headliner if they are not covered with
the frypan or saucepan that you need to have at hand to keep them under
control. After the flames eventually go out, and the burner cools off
enough to be able to pour some more metho into the cup, then the procedure
is retried.

Flare ups may be scary. I think pressure kero is a lot safer than LPG,
since kero does not explode. With the correct procedure the flare ups
do not occur. I guess I was a slow learner since you can probably tell
I'm speaking from experience :-)

I have seen this one before. It took them two or three goes to get it to do that.

Welcome to the forum "someday". Your description on kero stoves is on the mark. I personally believe they are the best thing for a live aboard yacht. There is a maintenance factor as there is with everything else on a yacht.

There is no reason why a metho or gas stove cannot be converted to kero. It is just a mechanical thing. I do believe, due to the high cost of certification of gas stoves and the bloody mindedness of insurance companies, there will be a resurgence in the popularity of kero stoves on yachts.

I have never had a microwave on a boat but I can see how it could be useful.

Now as power = IV, 70Whr = 70/12 = 5.9 Amp Hours.

You would not want to have too many cups of coffee, but even my house battery/solar panels could manage quite a few cups a day. Might be worth considering....

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andy59 said..
I love my Dometic Origo metho stove. Its easy to use, super safe virtually spill proof because the cartridges are filled ed with an absorbent material which soaks up all the metho. To operate it you basically just open the valve and ignite the fumes coming off the absorbent material in the cartridge, no priming.



Thats a picture of the cartridge above, you just poor a litre or so of metho in the hole at the top and its good for a lot of cups of tea

Andy, what model do you have and can you tell me the dimensions?

Thanks Andy. Delivered down here it will be about $625. I'm tempted to just get one and throw the CNG away. I'll measure up my space and if it fits and I can't get a filling card this week for the gas I think my decision is made.