Select to expand quoteSectorsteve said...
No doubt if there was no mob they would have made it.
The mob was not off m3.
the missing sailor is Mal Lennon off a Sydney 36 called Amante at the time he was washed overboard he was on the helm.
I have first hand experience of changing weather forecasts. In 2013 on a voyage to Broughton Island for the Australia Day weekend between the afternoon forecast and the next morning the wind went from 15-20 to over 35 as a cyclone formed up north and started tracking down.
Returning from Lord Howe in November we had a forecast of nor nor westerly about 20kts, 3 hours later we had west nor westerlies at 30-35kts.
We can't predict the weather 3 hours ahead but can tell the future climate 100 years ahead.
It is one of the perils of those who say you can do coastal passages in benign conditions by just using weather windows. Eventually you will get caught out in far worse than forecast weather.
It is now over 24 hours since the MOB. I heard he didn't have a pfd on but that might have just been the media.
****
Guess that was at low water looking at the sand ?is the keel still intact ? Hull probably a few scratches any holes? ,mast looks ok
Anybody know the story regarding the person stuck up the mast ?
Copy and pasted from Sailor Girl's Facebook. I assume these are from M3's Facebook page. Gutwrenching. 
Local news tonight said 5 May Days were broadcast yesterday off Port Stephens.
As a local on this part of the coast I am sad to say that the weather event [still ongoing] was very obvious last weekend.
I in fact told a friend, sailing to Vic, to stay in Yamba until at least today, he is staying till Sat/Sun.
TV news also of the last race at Coffs, where they got a little taste of the coming weather,
showed sailors moving around decks sans any safety harness gear or life jackets. 
Sometimes I think that these racers think they are invincible, being racers!
I think M3 was unlucky, gear failure can happen to any of us, especially in rough conditions. Been there, done that.
Even so, my thoughts are for Mal, his family and friends. Two MOB's in a month is not good.
Select to expand quotetheselkie said..
Copy and pasted from Sailor Girl's Facebook. I assume these are from M3's Facebook page. Gutwrenching.
How do you salvage that ?, mast intact , Halyards ,hull intact, foils intact, Motor intact, electonics not sure probably lots of sails on board ,
hope no low lives around with angle grinder s
Just very sad. I may have said hello to him around Coffs Yacht club the last few days
Select to expand quotespiggie said..theselkie said..
Copy and pasted from Sailor Girl's Facebook. I assume these are from M3's Facebook page. Gutwrenching.
How do you salvage that ?, mast intact , Halyards ,hull intact, foils intact, Motor intact, electonics not sure probably lots of sails on board ,
hope no low lives around with angle grinder s
I wonder how they will salvage it? Pretty remote area for heavy equipment access. Could they tow it off by tug as is? Would have to go a long way out before righting on a 4m keel? Or do a Team Vestas and remove keel and rig before tow?
nswsailor said;
"TV news also of the last race at Coffs, where they got a little taste of the coming weather, showed sailors moving around decks sans any safety harness gear or life jackets"
What would "that little taste of coming weather" be?
It was in fact a nice spinnaker reach out to sth. Solitary, then a 2 sail reach back in flat seas and 6-10 kn S.E.
We were/ are, well aware of the " coming weather," along with many others, we are still here with the boat and we plan on starting delivery south on saturday.
There are some interesting comments in this thread, lots of supposition, and I would like to hear facts, which may take a bit more time.
I can understand people involved in the incidents wanting to keep their cards close to their chests.
M3 looks salvagable. I've sailed on a Sydney 36 before, the cockpit is vast, pretty slick and open, in weather if a big wave came over you'd have to be pretty good to hang on if you weren't clipped in. The wheel has no grip.
Select to expand quotenswsailor said...
Local news tonight said 5 May Days were broadcast yesterday off Port Stephens.
As a local on this part of the coast I am sad to say that the weather event [still ongoing] was very obvious last weekend.....,,,,
Even so, my thoughts are for Mal, his family and friends. Two MOB's in a month is not good.
Yes, this was a major weather event. It was obvious on all the long term predictions.
After similar Sygna and Pasha Bulka storms, I can't understand why boaters can't get the concept of an "East Coast Low". Like something that can potentially explode into our version of a bombing cyclone leaving freighters on the beach?
Hurricane warning - oh yeah, let's go sailing?
Select to expand quoteMeg1122 said..
M3 looks salvagable. I've sailed on a Sydney 36 before, the cockpit is vast, pretty slick and open, in weather if a big wave came over you'd have to be pretty good to hang on if you weren't clipped in. The wheel has no grip.
Did a delivery on a Sydney 40 from Sydney to Airlie in S/SE that never went below 25 the entire trip. I found it was safest getting around the cockpit on hands and knees. Getting to and from the helm was hazardous in itself in weather. And that great Sydney ferris wheel!!! I see the rationale, but it's downright dangerous. At that sheer size, it's strength as something to brace yourself on is diminished and there is a real danger of something or someone being caught in those huge spokes.
When I heard that Mal Lennon had been at the helm when he went overboard, I felt sick...again. As MB said, "...there but for the grace of God go I...".
Had a guy on board a while ago who boasted that when everyone else was coming into port due to strong winds, he was taking his boat out. He then when on to say that he had never used a harness ever. Got me beat how he reached 80 years of age.
I thought after the the 98 Sydney to Hobart race everyone pulled their heads in and the macho bull$hit mentality of some racers (and cruisers) was curtailed. And if you see someone doing something unsafe, then speak up. I would image there will be a few people from this race who would have made different choices now they know the outcome. Falling overboard in just not an option.
Especially falling over in such weather. Chances of survival are slim. If this keeps happening i bet sailing and racing will become more regulated. Its the aussie way.
Select to expand quoteSectorsteve said..
Especially falling over in such weather. Chances of survival are slim. If this keeps happening i bet sailing and racing will become more regulated. Its the aussie way.
Exactly Steve, and as the racers are only out there for a couple of days it will be us cruisers that bare the full brunt of any resulting regulation.
I hope every sailor does a course in Sea Survival so that this is not a recurring terrible accident, Safety is everyone's Responsibility.
Select to expand quotenswsailor said..Sectorsteve said..
Especially falling over in such weather. Chances of survival are slim. If this keeps happening i bet sailing and racing will become more regulated. Its the aussie way.
Exactly Steve, and as the racers are only out there for a couple of days it will be us cruisers that bare the full brunt of any resulting regulation.
The NANNY STATE we all live in is one of the reasons my wife and I are giving up work going cruising!
More regulation and sources of income for the pollies to hire helicopters, have liquid lunches and go on overseas trips is not what we want 
It's enough to make you want to go live in Venezuela or something!
Select to expand quotewhiteout said..
I hope every sailor does a course in Sea Survival so that this is not a recurring terrible accident, Safety is everyone's Responsibility.
Trouble is most yachts don't have a life raft onboard and its rare for anybody to get into one anyway.
The same goes for flares. I heard that the English are considering getting rid of them as very few are set off and only then on the rare occasion when the vessel has already been sighted by rescue craft. Save us all the hassle as well. When was an Aussie one set off in anger [apart from by racers].
With epribs and increasingly class 'B' AIS and DSC radios being onboard all vessels sort of makes the cartage of dangerous flares onboard redundant.
Noticed also in the photos nobody had any boots on ?? surely if you go over you won't have time to remove your boots first.
Didn't see any safety harnesses? Don't those blokes use them? Some of the life jackets didn't have jock straps either, vital for survival.
I suppose its horses for courses, the course works for some to tick boxes but not for others out there sailing around our coasts.
I have done all these exercises in the 1990s and even then doubted their value, except for the use of an inflatable life-jacket.
Select to expand quotewhiteout said..
I hope every sailor does a course in Sea Survival so that this is not a recurring terrible accident, Safety is everyone's Responsibility.
It's no good just doing the courses, the best courses in the world won't save your a**e if you don't implement what you learnt, or if you don't wear the safety gear.
Some footage from the Clipper Race of the guy stuck up the mast. 9hrs up there must have felt an eternity. I'm guessing the Clippers have ascenders and gear to climb a halyard.
Select to expand quotenswsailor said..
Local news tonight said 5 May Days were broadcast yesterday off Port Stephens.
As a local on this part of the coast I am sad to say that the weather event [still ongoing] was very obvious last weekend.
I in fact told a friend, sailing to Vic, to stay in Yamba until at least today, he is staying till Sat/Sun.
TV news also of the last race at Coffs, where they got a little taste of the coming weather,
showed sailors moving around decks sans any safety harness gear or life jackets.
Sometimes I think that these racers think they are invincible, being racers!
I think M3 was unlucky, gear failure can happen to any of us, especially in rough conditions. Been there, done that.
Even so, my thoughts are for Mal, his family and friends. Two MOB's in a month is not good.
Same again for the race to Queensland, saw only one [maybe 2] yachts with the crew wearing PFD's or harnesses on the foredeck!
Will these blokes ever learn?
Select to expand quotenswsailor said..nswsailor said..
Local news tonight said 5 May Days were broadcast yesterday off Port Stephens.
As a local on this part of the coast I am sad to say that the weather event [still ongoing] was very obvious last weekend.
I in fact told a friend, sailing to Vic, to stay in Yamba until at least today, he is staying till Sat/Sun.
TV news also of the last race at Coffs, where they got a little taste of the coming weather,
showed sailors moving around decks sans any safety harness gear or life jackets.
Sometimes I think that these racers think they are invincible, being racers!
I think M3 was unlucky, gear failure can happen to any of us, especially in rough conditions. Been there, done that.
Even so, my thoughts are for Mal, his family and friends. Two MOB's in a month is not good.
Same again for the race to Queensland, saw only one [maybe 2] yachts with the crew wearing PFD's or harnesses on the foredeck!
Will these blokes ever learn?Select to expand quoteFreeRadical said..
Some footage from the Clipper Race of the guy stuck up the mast. 9hrs up there must have felt an eternity. I'm guessing the Clippers have ascenders and gear to climb a halyard.
One hour up the mast is bad enough at the dock ,Surely after 9 hrs the old crotch must be black and blue this has to be a world record.
One that i don't wish to attempt !!!!!!
Clippers have everything gear wise for all emergencies
Select to expand quotenswsailor said..
Same again for the race to Queensland, saw only one [maybe 2] yachts with the crew wearing PFD's or harnesses on the foredeck!
Will these blokes ever learn?
We don't know what happened with the tragic Amante accident. However, I think there's been two (2) people killed by being lost overboard in Australian Cat 1/2 races since they started in 1946.* One or both (depending on who you believe) suffered serious medical issues that meant that survival was impossible anyway.
At a rough guess, calculated from the number of boats doing such a race each year and their crew numbers, there's therefore about a one in 10-20,000 chance that a sailor who has done a Cat 1/2 race in Oz will end their life by being lost overboard in a long race. That's probably an over-estimate.
That means you have much more chance of dying because of a "Fall involving bed, chair, other furniture", or "Fall on same level from slipping, tripping and stumbling" than you do from being lost overboard EVEN AS A SAILOR WHO DOES MAJOR OCEAN RACES. Drowning in your own bathtub is a more likely cause of death for ocean racers than drowning in a major ocean race. You've got about as much chance of being suffocated or strangled in your own bed as you do of being lost overboard.
So what are we supposed to learn - that we should always wear gear to protect us from a risk as big as that of drowning in the bathtub or being strangled by our own bedclothes? Doesn't that mean that a rational sailor would always wear a PFD in the bath, and sleep with a neck guard to ward off lethal blankets? After all, if the odds are around the same then why wear protective gear in one situation and not the other?
I've been wearing an unusual amount of safety gear in most of my ocean racing, starting with getting a personal strobe in 1979. I've also lost friends and family sailing. However, surely it's reasonable to acknowledge that the sport is not actually massively dangerous and that we shouldn't allow the problems we humans have with risk assessment to over-ride the reality.
* From Yahoo II in the '84 Hobart and from Sword of Orion in 1988. I may have missed some, but then again I think BOTH have safety gear on at the time and it didn't help them.
Select to expand quotespiggie said..nswsailor said..nswsailor said..
Local news tonight said 5 May Days were broadcast yesterday off Port Stephens.
As a local on this part of the coast I am sad to say that the weather event [still ongoing] was very obvious last weekend.
I in fact told a friend, sailing to Vic, to stay in Yamba until at least today, he is staying till Sat/Sun.
TV news also of the last race at Coffs, where they got a little taste of the coming weather,
showed sailors moving around decks sans any safety harness gear or life jackets.
Sometimes I think that these racers think they are invincible, being racers!
I think M3 was unlucky, gear failure can happen to any of us, especially in rough conditions. Been there, done that.
Even so, my thoughts are for Mal, his family and friends. Two MOB's in a month is not good.
Same again for the race to Queensland, saw only one [maybe 2] yachts with the crew wearing PFD's or harnesses on the foredeck!
Will these blokes ever learn?FreeRadical said..
Some footage from the Clipper Race of the guy stuck up the mast. 9hrs up there must have felt an eternity. I'm guessing the Clippers have ascenders and gear to climb a halyard.
One hour up the mast is bad enough at the dock ,Surely after 9 hrs the old crotch must be black and blue this has to be a world record.
One that i don't wish to attempt !!!!!!
Clippers have everything gear wise for all emergencies
I want his harness....if I was up there for one hour bits of body would start coming down.
How many halyard lock incidents have we had that have had serious consequences? Is it a big problem?
