So those three brands seem to have their marketing team on top of things. I can't seem to find anything on that Starboard Vanguard, as in a professional website.
I'm still on the fence with these Vanguard models. Might try and demo one during the holidays.
Select to expand quotehilly said..supthecreek said...
Kirk... how does does the "X" relate to the S5? The S5 has always seemed to fit my eye, is this a morph of the S5?
Xtra large at a guessSelect to expand quotesupthecreek said..
Kirk... how does does the "X" relate to the S5? The S5 has always seemed to fit my eye, is this a morph of the S5?
Creek,
This is very similar in principal to our S5. The addition of the stepped rails, channels and unique tail shape make it more like an S5 on 'roids.
Kirk
Select to expand quotehilly said..supthecreek said...
Kirk... how does does the "X" relate to the S5? The S5 has always seemed to fit my eye, is this a morph of the S5?
Xtra large at a guess
Kami,
I'm 210 lbs or 95kg. At 118L it floats me just right. These are custom made to suit any rider so yes, we can go smaller.
Kirk
Kirk,
What's the purpose of the reduced nose size on these boards? I (think) that I understand the tail fat tails found on all Simsups/Tomos - it helps with planing. And the deep concaves - they help planing too. But why the reduced nose? Surely any nose channel setup could be integrated into a natural nose just as easily? Is it just for aesthetic symmetry?
Select to expand quoteTalkToMe said..
So those three brands seem to have their marketing team on top of things. I can't seem to find anything on that Starboard Vanguard, as in a professional website.
I'm still on the fence with these Vanguard models. Might try and demo one during the holidays.
Yeah I have not seen anything on Starboard , which is really strange as most new stuff I will find out pretty early. I had no idea they had one?
What's the purpose of the reduced nose size on these boards? I (think) that I understand the tail fat tails found on all Simsups/Tomos - it helps with planing. And the deep concaves - they help planing too. But why the reduced nose? Surely any nose channel setup could be integrated into a natural nose just as easily? Is it just for aesthetic symmetry?
Everyone has their own theory. The design blow up from the shortboard Vanguard doesn't work perfectly on a Sup.That's why all brands are pretty different. Bring on the evolution I love it 
Select to expand quotePiros said...TalkToMe said..
So those three brands seem to have their marketing team on top of things. I can't seem to find anything on that Starboard Vanguard, as in a professional website.
I'm still on the fence with these Vanguard models. Might try and demo one during the holidays.
Yeah I have not seen anything on Starboard , which is really strange as most new stuff I will find out pretty early. I had no idea they had one?
What's the purpose of the reduced nose size on these boards? I (think) that I understand the tail fat tails found on all Simsups/Tomos - it helps with planing. And the deep concaves - they help planing too. But why the reduced nose? Surely any nose channel setup could be integrated into a natural nose just as easily? Is it just for aesthetic symmetry?
Everyone has their own theory. The design blow up from the shortboard Vanguard doesn't work perfectly on a Sup.That's why all brands are pretty different. Bring on the evolution I love it
The Starby one is a proto. The Starboard guys were at Merimbula last month and said they were surprised at how well the "Hypernut" had been kept under wraps.
They advised that there will be five sizes if I remember correctly. And that they will be released at different times through 2015. The one in the pic is 7'2" but there will be a smaller one specifically designed for Zane. The largest was I think 8'0" and 31.5" wide. The tail is pulled in slightly to allow rail to rail turns.
Thanks Zues will be interesting to see Zane on it . Have to Say from my personal experience 8-0 x 31.5 does not work.
Select to expand quoteZeusman said..
The Gulliver boards look pretty good. Anyone know the prices?
Yup, seems like a nice coherent design... except for the sizing!
Why increasing so much the length with volume? this means that for my weight I would be forced to ride a 8'1"... much too long for this design to work, you lose all the benefits of the parallel rails, and if as they say, this design allows you to have your rear foot on the kickpad at all times, this means that you have a huge swing weight far away up front slowing you down...
Select to expand quotePiros said..
Have to Say from my personal experience 8-0 x 31.5 does not work.
those dimensions seem almost perfect to me, as I find anything below 32" is just too narrow for my normal stance. why didn't it work for you? too much length, too much width, or just plain too much?
Select to expand quotePiros said..TalkToMe said..
So those three brands seem to have their marketing team on top of things. I can't seem to find anything on that Starboard Vanguard, as in a professional website.
I'm still on the fence with these Vanguard models. Might try and demo one during the holidays.
Yeah I have not seen anything on Starboard , which is really strange as most new stuff I will find out pretty early. I had no idea they had one?
What's the purpose of the reduced nose size on these boards? I (think) that I understand the tail fat tails found on all Simsups/Tomos - it helps with planing. And the deep concaves - they help planing too. But why the reduced nose? Surely any nose channel setup could be integrated into a natural nose just as easily? Is it just for aesthetic symmetry?
Everyone has their own theory. The design blow up from the shortboard Vanguard doesn't work perfectly on a Sup.That's why all brands are pretty different. BringPiros said..TalkToMe said..
So those three brands seem to have their marketing team on top of things. I can't seem to find anything on that Starboard Vanguard, as in a professional website.
I'm still on the fence with these Vanguard models. Might try and demo one during the holidays.
Yeah I have not seen anything on Starboard , which is really strange as most new stuff I will find out pretty early. I had no idea they had one?
What's the purpose of the reduced nose size on these boards? I (think) that I understand the tail fat tails found on all Simsups/Tomos - it helps with planing. And the deep concaves - they help planing too. But why the reduced nose? Surely any nose channel setup could be integrated into a natural nose just as easily? Is it just for aesthetic symmetry?
Everyone has their own theory. The design blow up from the shortboard Vanguard doesn't work perfectly on a Sup.That's why all brands are pretty different. Bring on the evolution I love it Piros said..TalkToMe said..
So those three brands seem to have their marketing team on top of things. I can't seem to find anything on that Starboard Vanguard, as in a professional website.
I'm still on the fence with these Vanguard models. Might try and demo one during the holidays.
Yeah I have not seen anything on Starboard , which is really strange as most new stuff I will find out pretty early. I had no idea they had one?
What's the purpose of the reduced nose size on these boards? I (think) that I understand the tail fat tails found on all Simsups/Tomos - it helps with planing. And the deep concaves - they help planing too. But why the reduced nose? Surely any nose channel setup could be integrated into a natural nose just as easily? Is it just for aesthetic symmetry?
Everyone has their own theory. The design blow up from the shortboard Vanguard doesn't work perfectly on a Sup.That's why all brands are pretty different. Bring on the evolution I love it
on the evolution I love itPiros said..TalkToMe said..
So those three brands seem to have their marketing team on top of things. I can't seem to find anything on that Starboard Vanguard, as in a professional website.
I'm still on the fence with these Vanguard models. Might try and demo one during the holidays.
Yeah I have not seen anything on Starboard , which is really strange as most new stuff I will find out pretty early. I had no idea they had one?
What's the purpose of the reduced nose size on these boards? I (think) that I understand the tail fat tails found on all Simsups/Tomos - it helps with planing. And the deep concaves - they help planing too. But why the reduced nose? Surely any nose channel setup could be integrated into a natural nose just as easily? Is it just for aesthetic symmetry?
Everyone has their own theory. The design blow up from the shortboard Vanguard doesn't work perfectly on a Sup.That's why all brands are pretty different. Bring on the evolution I love it
JeanG,
By "reduced nose size" I think you mean the chopped nose? Can't have parallel rails without this feature. And the parallel rails are the magic with these boards. This redistribution of volume and surface area allows these boards to be ridden shorter/narrower with little affect on overall stability. That funky nose template I used really has no function. Call it "bling".
Zane's Hypernut is a 6'10 x 23" and he completely rips on that thing.
I was with him in France the day he tried it for the first time in France, and he threw one of the sickest air reverses I've ever seen on a SUP board in one of the first waves he rode on that thing.
The concept itself is a bit different from the Vanguard boards, since it is a blend between the Vanguard and the Nut.
Zane was saying it was the best SUP board he ever surfed, and it was only the first prototype they've tried.
One of the things I really like about it is that the tail is way narrower than the other vanguard like shapes i've seen! Really curious to see where the new iterations of that shape will take it.
The Nut.....shortboards tail and longboard nose........is this not what is normally known as a Minimal?
Select to expand quoteJohnnyMaya said...
Zane's Hypernut is a 6'10 x 23" and he completely rips on that thing.
I was with him in France the day he tried it for the first time in France, and he threw one of the sickest air reverses I've ever seen on a SUP board in one of the first waves he rode on that thing.
The concept itself is a bit different from the Vanguard boards, since it is a blend between the Vanguard and the Nut.
Zane was saying it was the best SUP board he ever surfed, and it was only the first prototype they've tried.
One of the things I really like about it is that the tail is way narrower than the other vanguard like shapes i've seen! Really curious to see where the new iterations of that shape will take it.
Sounds good let's see if he rides it in the next comp.
He was going to ride it in the last day in Morocco but i think he was trying to hide it from the lenses.
He was just getting shacked on his backhand on a slab 100m north from the comp site right after the comp was off.
For those of you who have not seen it in person, the nut concept is not about a narrow tail and a longboard nose.
It's about a rail that mixes the rail line from a much shorter board with a longboard nose. I've tried a prototype that had the tail and rail line from the 7'1 inzane model blent with a front rail line and nose similar to those on the pocket rocket. A really nice ripper, with really easy manners!
Can be that kind sets with 8" cutaway fin and M7 side fin size's or as thruster combo with large back fin
Any way this 7'2" 26.2" 90 liters shows on volume diagram a well balance paddling abilities and i reckon it would be rideable as well because of medium widest point with flyers as a loose and responsive board and still some parallel outline to hold some back hand abilities on walling wave
Nice Kami but that is really getting away from the straight rail theory , keep us posted and lets see how it goes. In some discussions I have had with other shapers they want to get tail width down with straighter rails in front exactly what you have done.
Zane's Hypernut is a 6'10 x 23" and he completely rips on that thing.
Wow that's small 
if he can ride that it will rip.
Select to expand quotePiros said..
Nice call Hilly but I don't call it a Fad yet still room for improvements. I think you'll see the noses round up more and the tails square off like the Thomo design. These boards have their days where they just rip but in some fatter sloppy conditions they do struggle. If you can afford more than one board it's a must in your quiver but if you are a one board Supper this isn't your board.
We now have 4 major brands put out production models: Sunova 1st , then Gulliver , JP and even Naish. Sunova designs are pretty radical , JP & Gulliver is more the proven design so far and Naish have gone super short and fat. Deep has lead the way with customs and by far sold the most plus we have a bunch of other custom shapers and home made jobs. Everyone has their own theories on how to blow up this original Vanguard shortboard shape.
Personally I love it always keen on new stuff. One really interesting fact none of the top team riders are competing on them that has to say something.
Piros in terms of the fact that as you say none of the top team riders are competing on them there are a number of reasonable factors to consider.
At the end of the day this is a commercial business and the major players offer a wide variety of boards which go from the extremely short to the overly long with a whole
range of board sizes in between. Just taking the Minion as an example, we see here that you have a product which can cater for guys who are ultra light, say under 70kg as well
as the big boys who are 115kg and yet keep the board well under 8 feet. It just comes down to how artfully you distribute the volume on these parallel boards. I would suggest then
that it would be commercially disadvantageous to the bigger players by narrowing the size down. How do they sell the boards which are 8'6, 9'0, 9'6, 10 etc which guys are using for
surfing purposes? Okay yes there will always be a market for the flatwater range regardless of how small the boards become but that is a speciality area. What do they do with all these
templates? They are basically shooting themselves in the foot by doing this. Now compare that again to the minion. It really took one thread from Casso and the exposure that it received
was such that we saw an explosion in interest for these boards which also translated in huge sales as well as an overwhelming positive response. Now if I had a choice of taking
Kai Lennys advice on board recommendation I need to balance that with his personal interests given that he is sponsored by Naish - he has a financial commitment there. On the other
hand I would be more inclined to look at the plethora of positive responses from guys that have bought a minion who have NO financial interest whatsoever. I would view their remarks
with a greater level of objectivity than Kai Lenny's.
These boards work, there is no doubt about that. If they didnt we would have an entire thread from disgruntled SUPers and no amount of affirmations from Kai Lenny could dispel negative feedback from the public.
Probably the most raved about Vanguard style of SUP
Just check the thread www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/DEEP-Oceanboards-72-Minion-Review/
I have a 7.10 and love it. Different kind of surfing but WOW fast...hell fast..:)
Select to expand quotecolas said..Zeusman said..
The Gulliver boards look pretty good. Anyone know the prices?
Yup, seems like a nice coherent design... except for the sizing!
Why increasing so much the length with volume? this means that for my weight I would be forced to ride a 8'1"... much too long for this design to work, you lose all the benefits of the parallel rails, and if as they say, this design allows you to have your rear foot on the kickpad at all times, this means that you have a huge swing weight far away up front slowing you down...
$2500RRP... Comes with cover, carbon fins and grip.
Select to expand quotejonbro said..colas said..Zeusman said..
The Gulliver boards look pretty good. Anyone know the prices?
Yup, seems like a nice coherent design... except for the sizing!
Why increasing so much the length with volume? this means that for my weight I would be forced to ride a 8'1"... much too long for this design to work, you lose all the benefits of the parallel rails, and if as they say, this design allows you to have your rear foot on the kickpad at all times, this means that you have a huge swing weight far away up front slowing you down...
$2500RRP... Comes with cover, carbon fins and grip.
Holy **** batman.... Seen the question asked a few times now with no reply and now I can see why. Are these fully customized or of the shelf sizes/dimensions?
Even happier with the money I'm just about to drop on a minion
The reason why Australian Waterman/Gulliver don't reply is because they have a policy of staying off forums and advertising instead through this website. So I doubt that you will get a lot of info directly from them, unless you call or email them directly through their website featured previously.. I think the price above mentioned is for a package and it includes a lighter interwoven carbon innegra layup as well as a carbon fin setup that works, vbox cover etc I suppose the price would be less if they were copying the lay ups of other brands boards fins etc .. as the materials etc would be cheaper.. Fin setups are super important and this has been tested along with the development of the boards.. I have seen and heard of vboxs going out of the shop a lot cheaper than that and they also take care of repeat customers with regard to turning over boards etc. give them a call directly go into his shop at Burleigh Heads or an email if you want to talk Turkey
Select to expand quotejonbro said..colas said..Zeusman said..
The Gulliver boards look pretty good. Anyone know the prices?
Yup, seems like a nice coherent design... except for the sizing!
Why increasing so much the length with volume? this means that for my weight I would be forced to ride a 8'1"... much too long for this design to work, you lose all the benefits of the parallel rails, and if as they say, this design allows you to have your rear foot on the kickpad at all times, this means that you have a huge swing weight far away up front slowing you down...
$2500RRP... Comes with cover, carbon fins and grip.
Not sure who you were talking to .. $1900 without a bag. That price from ringing retailer Australianwaterman.com yesterday (07) 55203824
I think you will find that Australian Waterman includes grip fitted as well.. A lot of other board companies will have you buy it and put it on at your own time and expense. And then you will be asked if you would like fries with that and maybe a large coke, fins, legrope etc for an extra $250..
Select to expand quotecolas said...Zeusman said..
The Gulliver boards look pretty good. Anyone know the prices?
Yup, seems like a nice coherent design... except for the sizing!
Why increasing so much the length with volume? this means that for my weight I would be forced to ride a 8'1"... much too long for this design to work, you lose all the benefits of the parallel rails, and if as they say, this design allows you to have your rear foot on the kickpad at all times, this means that you have a huge swing weight far away up front slowing you down...
Colas/Piros what would u say is limit on length for these boards to be used optimally?
Select to expand quoteGrenfell said..
Colas/Piros what would u say is limit on length for these boards to be used optimally?
For me, you should think of these wide tailed boards as normal boards with the tail chopped off.
Imaging sawing your "normal" board just behind the front fins.... this means that you should ride these boards nearly 1' shorter than your normal board.
My Simmons 6'10" is a shorter version of the Gong production 8'0". The 8'0" is very nice, but a bit frightening at size, chop, and in hollow conditions; since you were far back on the tail, the nose up there was hard to control in late take offs and hollow parts. At 6'10" however, you get the board-makes-one-with-your-body feeling of a 7' with the paddling speed of a 8', because they have so little row for their length that you can crank hard on the paddle and compensate for the shorter length.
This means also that the 8' could be even be used by beginners, as it was as easy to paddle and use than a 9'+ board.
The problem is a commercial one: it is too hard now to convince people that a 7' board is not as hard as the world cup riders with their skinny toothsticks make it look, and it wont sell.
Also the concaves / channels are not here for speed, but for control. And fin placement can change a lot the behavior of these boards. I expect we will see a lot of people buy these new shapes and get disgusted because they cannot make them work and dismiss them as a fad, just because fin placement is not adapted to the shape. These are not bards designed to turn tight in the pocket. They need speed, and fin shape & placement should be designed for it.
Thanks Colas much appreciated. Anyone you think getting it right re: fin position?
It depends on the shape: tail width, concaves, rocker...
I guess the important thing is to be sure to have plenty of fin boxes :-)
For instance this is what I use: from left to right:
- 6'10" Simmons, twin fins on the tail. I can move them one plug forward for small waves.
- 6'8" Fast "fish" for weak waves. A nubster or 5th trailer fin can help for bigger waves
- 6'10" for hollow waves
As you can see, fin positions can vary a lot between not-so-distant shapes, so I am not able to tell exactly what is the best for other brands. Just that I was very surprisez how bad the Simmons shspe was working with a modern quad setup...
You sir, have in my house what I call the divorce quiver! Just jealous!
thanks again v useful.
