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G'day all,
I'm approx 95kg 6ft 2" and I've been SUPing for a bit over 3 years now and have previously had a 10ft Naish Mana and a 9'6" Altantis Vex Profusion (149 litres). I consider myself to surf with reasonable compentence in waves up to double overhead on my Atlantis. I've been on a Laguna Bay 8'10" × 30" (approx 125litres) Dogman model since last October, while I have had my best waves ever on this board I really struggle to maintain balance on this board in all but the smoothest conditions. I can paddle several kms on my local lake without falling off but as soon as get into the surf with a bit of chop and water movement I really struggle. I'm keen to hear the experiences of others on this board.
I have never ridden one, but from the pics it looks like to have quite a pulled-in nose, especially compared to the Mana & Vex.
I had boards with an outline similar to it, and I found out that you must let the nose a bit out of the water, and try to get your front foot quite centered, away from the rails, especially the heel.
I was falling a lot until I realised that my front foot was at a 45 degree angle or more, and so the heel was quite close to the rail. So if I was out of balance, I tended to put my weight on my heels (bad! but hard to correct), and would dig the front rail. Moving my front foot a bit to the center and opening it a bit more helped me a lot.
Also, keeping a good 6" of the nose clear of the water help a lot, otherwise digging a pointy nose while paddling can throw you overboard quickly.
Hope this helps!
PS: I also found out that I am too old for the pointed noses, but that is a personal decision :-)
Nice answer colas.. great tips.
KenM....2 questions:
how often do you ride that board? and... do you avoid it on wonky days?
I am 67 and 98K... I had a month to prepare for the narrowest board of my life
8'10 x 29 @ 130 L.....
I had never ridden a 29" wide board, or anything under 145 L, so I started training.
That meant getting the smallest boards that would float me, and surf them in crap conditions.
I never really had expectations of riding waves on them... I just wanted to build the proper muscles and reflexes.
When my board came I was pleased with the results, but needed to be better, so I went out in 8" waves in 30mph winds for hours.... 6 days straight.
Results? I still fall off when it is victory at sea, but I am respectable. If it's ever calm, it will be a cake-walk
For reference.... my board is a wide nose "Tomo" style.. but narrow tail
Last week a friend borrowed my board.
I jumped on his pointy nose little board for 20 minutes. Caught 3 decent rides and only fell over once.
I asked what size his pointy little thing was:
7'10 x 31 @ 117 liters.
Holy crap.... my training worked.... a month ago, that would have been impossible for me.
It may have been 31" wide, but it was a sliver.... super thin, foiled custom.. and the 31" was a tiny bit in the middle.
The numbers:
You and your board: 125 L divided by 95 kg = 1.31
Me and my board: 130 L divided by 98 kg = 1.32
Me and pointy board: 117 L divided by 98kg = 1.19
1.3 is considered low threshold volume for intermediate skills (weight in kg's x 1.3 = lowest volume for intermediate skill level)
Moral of the story:
It takes very tuned muscles and reflexes to regain some semblance of "cat balance"
These muscles take consistent, dedicated training to build and fine tune
Occasional or light wind sessions, are not enough, in my experience...
I needed extended, painful sessions to rebuild my aging support system.
My "comfortable" boards didn't stress me enough, and I had noticed my abilities were slipping.
Struggle is good.
Bottom Line?
My entire body feels each session, not just my legs..... everything is getting better tuned... and no more tight muscles.... just a nice tired feeling.
I used to hobble, now I swagger 
Briefly I would say better to trust your new physical shape rather than your new board . Once you will get your new physical envelop like I or Supthecreek did you may find the Laguna as favorite one . The Laguna is very well balanced board but as any other board need some times to challenge the sphere effect. As Colas have been saying before your topic, stability and surfing are antinomic.
Coming from a bigger rounder nose shaped board and gong down can be tricky but sometimes the dimensions of a board are right but the shape is just not for you or your conditions, I had a similar like you experience with my Hokua9.0....I,m 90kg +always using a full wetsuit and boots and when it was clean and proper wave the Hokua was was awesome, especially as a Quad ripping with full confidence!!
But when choppy or just not having my day it throw me off way too often and unluckily for me I live at a place where a lot of chop, confused waves and strong currents+some wind are rather normall.
so the yearly routine was that I paded the board half a year, got pissed and planned to sell it. Went for holiday to really nice waves like Cornwall-UK or Ireland, got in love with it again so kept it and repeating the same cyclus for 2.5 year.After 2.5y I realised that although when everything came together (like at the holiday spots I paddled) the board rocks but.... A it was just not made for my conditions and B after trying some other boards that although the general dimensions and pointy outline are right, similar outlines but slightly different shapes like the Fanatic 8.10 and Starboard Pro9.0 did suit me better. TheHokua can be an awesome board...but just not for me.I changed to a 2014 Starboard Pro9.0x29x118l. On a picture the outlines and specs look rather similar but it has the pro has a flatter bottom and slightly less pointy nose + holding a bit more volume in it....an and loved it every type of conditions. No matter how worse it could be, stable as a rock and catching virt everything with it. The Pro is like the Hokua still better in the good conditions but at least allow me to ride my stuff at home as well. Mine got pressure dings after 1 week dings and as soon as the new boards where in they replaced it under waranty (after half a year I happily paddled on it) for the 2015 Starboard 8.5x29x 112l Pro :)
Even the 8.5 is for me with 13l less volume easier to paddle as the Hokua was...just because the shape compliments more my style and riding.
So after a long story my advice would be to try a board with similar sizing but slightly different and see how that goes.
I had a Dogman model off Tully and couldn't fault the balance of the board. Mine was smaller but so are my spec's (although growing.. dammit!). It was the first board I had bought that was more of your normal short board style of shape so the decreased nose width and extra rocker definitely made for a more challenging paddle but having ridden several big name production boards since, I would say the Dogman model paddled quite well. In my opinion if you were buying a board from Tully and wanted performance plus stability, you can't go past his hybrid designs (like the surftech range) as the 8'6" surftech is still my all time favourite. Obviously the shortboard shapes work well but geez you work for it. I think you made a good choice for performance KenM but like myself didn't expect to work for it so much.
John
Hi Ken,
As you know we surf the same break. I like it when you fall off so I can catch your waves Lol!! Not so when you are on the Vex. Quite the opposite then!
I remember my first days on my Vex trying to balance. Soooooo frustrating with sooooooo many swear words. Now it is a piece of cake because the balance muscles are accustomed.
Like the guys have said above on the changes you might have to make. I will give my views.
Sometimes you have to make things harder for yourself on a training run. That is if it was me trying to get better at controlling this board I would on a good day with little chop or in the lake I would over stance on the board by either standing further back so the nose points up a lot more & the tail down under the water & paddle, turn etc without falling off. Then try paddling, standing with your stance to the right & then later to the left. This would tip the board sideways either way. Try to hold these positions as long as possible without falling off. Again only do this on flat water. Choppy waters would be a waste of time & effort. By doing this your balance muscles would be overworked more so than your typical day when trying to balance & you brain & body will remember to re balance before you get to an extreme over balance.
But remember let your muscles recover for a couple of days after a training session so they can grow stronger. It may mean to surf your Vex whilst recovering.
Standing on a sphere? I believe you should be in the stance with very little roll forward or backward. So I think stand further back is the answer to that. Feels crap I know. That is why I said over do it by standing even further back whilst training so when you do go for a surf with a more central balance it should feel a lot easier.
I tried a concept that was in my head earlier this year when I introduced paddle boarding to a friend who visited from over seas who had never surfed. After 2 hours he caught his first small wave on my JP Widebody!
In the first half hour of teaching him, I put him on my smallest board the 7ft Coreban Hyper. He tried hard to balance & paddle & fell off quite often, but he did make some minor improvements. Then I put him on the JP Widebody & he was off! Paddled out of Little Lake to the waves. He felt so much more confident.
So my concept was to tune his brain & body balance for the worst so that when getting on a bigger board it would become a lot easier. Quite the opposite to progressing from big boards to small boards.
By looking at your Laguna I believe because of the narrow nose you are actually trying to stand on a board that is actually a lot shorter than its 8ft 10" with less volume because of the wasted nose dimensions for the balance aspect, more like under 8ft. Not easy at all for your height & weight.
Now apart from all that my other view is this:-
At this stage you don't want to part from this board so therefore you could use it as your HU board. Hardly Used. Like my Coreban Hyper. And use it only on the best days to help your balance practise like I do. And a great surf obviously. It makes your other boards a dream to balance on like my JP.
So therefore you might want to invest in a board more suited for nearly every day with better performance than your Vex. My choice was my Sunova Soul as you know.
Then you would have a 3 board quiver. More expense I know. But you may later decide to sell the one you no further need anyway.
At this stage I love my 3 board quiver as each one serves its purpose. But the Soul is the one that will stay.
I looked at the Sunova Sups thinking that a Soul would be perfect for you until I checked the dimensions & volumes and surprise surprise I came up with the Speeed of all things, the Acid second. The Speeed being the 8ft 10" also but has a little more volume than your Laguna & obviously spread out width over the length. The Speeed would have great performance too. But TRY BEFORE BUY if possible. But my view it would have better balance.
Sorry for the waffle on. I try to keep it short but it doesn't happen.
Hopefully you will get a reply as you asked from someone with a Laguna at your height & weight.
See you on the water. Surfs up from Wednesday, best Thursday & Friday. Happy surfing!
Hopefully you will get a reply as you asked from someone with a Laguna at your height & weight.
so the yearly routine was that I paded the board half a year, got pissed and planned to sell it. Went for holiday to really nice waves like Cornwall-UK or Ireland, got in love with it again so kept it and repeating the same cyclus for 2.5 year.After 2.5y I realised that although when everything came together (like at the holiday spots I paddled) the board rocks but.... A it was just not made for my conditions and B after trying some other boards that although the general dimensions and pointy outline are right, similar outlines but slightly different shapes like the Fanatic 8.10 and Starboard Pro9.0 did suit me better. TheHokua can be an awesome board...but just not for me.I changed to a 2014 Starboard Pro9.0x29x118l. On a picture the outlines and specs look rather similar but it has the pro has a flatter bottom and slightly less pointy nose + holding a bit more volume in it....an and loved it every type of conditions. No matter how worse it could be, stable as a rock and catching virt everything with it. The Pro is like the Hokua still better in the good conditions but at least allow me to ride my stuff at home as well. Mine got pressure dings after 1 week dings and as soon as the new boards where in they replaced it under waranty (after half a year I happily paddled on it) for the 2015 Starboard 8.5x29x 112l Pro :)
I suggest looking into both the JP & Fanatic 9'2". Both are more stable than the 9'0 Starby and surf just as good. I've owned all 3 and currently ride the Fanatic.
Hopefully you will get a reply as you asked from someone with a Laguna at your height & weight.
If you try your mates 8ft Starby & stay up on it better than your Laguna then maybe the 9ft is a goer. You could try both my JP & Soul when we meet next to get a comparison
I am not pushing the Sunovas but I think they are a great board at a low price & great performers too.
All in all it is the shape, style, colours & make of a good performer that one will accept in the end.
Obviously the narrow nose isn't doing any justice & picking a good performance board with a wider nose area with a little more volume but keeping the width the same then I think it would be a confident satisfactory buy. Maybe even another Laguna. Either way I am sure you will make a good decision.
Hi Ken
I feel your pain buddy.
Just spent over 3 months out of the water with an injured ankle .
Stacked on 12kg.
N im in serious struggle street on my 95L dogman model boards while im rocking over 100kg.
(Now just smashed up my knee n im looking at more time on the couch)
Usually ill only ride my 8'2 dogman model sup's when it pumping . (Which is what it is designed for.)
If its really small and clean, ill ride a 10'2 longboard styled sup n if its junky ill usually just jump on a 7'10 shorter hybrid nose sup shape.... All tully st john custom shapes.
But it is damn hard to put my board back in its cover to swap to another board that may better suit the conditions. N sacrifice being able to shred like a madman possessed on my 8'2.
Thats the latest high performance model "blown up version"
Narrow nose n the rounded square tail.
Loads of drive off the bottom and crazy loose off the top.
Over the last few years ive been playing around with 3 different nose shapes and 3 different tail shapes.
Trying out ways to mix n match them into combinations, so they will work in different wave types n sizes on offer, to come up with an ideal board for an ideal situation.
All about trying to work out what "i like" from each boards own individual characteristics that make it "GO" strip it all down and build my quiver from there.
Front end nose shapes:
1)High Performance (non catching during steep drops n turns)
2)Standard Performance ( increased stability with added surface area)
3)Hybrid Performance (nose ridable allows for reduced board length)
Rear end tail shapes.
1)Rounded Square (ultra loose)
2)Swallow (powerful hold in larger waves)
3)Round (all rounder great in fat waves)
Each individual aspect of a board will have some sort of good merrits and some very bad merrits ... And work great in some conditions but suck @rse in other conditions.
Absolutely agree with regard to the performance level of this board...... I've launched into a some steep pits with a bit of a hail Mary but have been astounded at the ease I can get through sections and crank it back down off the top ..... but, with some chop, backwash and water movement (which are the predominate conditions at my local) I am out the back falling like autumn leaves and feeling like a real goose. I might have to expand the quiver to contain something a just a little more mellow.
Good luck with those injuries mate ..... I had about 3 weeks out of the water with a crook back a month ago no fun there...... you'll have to lock away those doggie treats or Tully will have whip up a new upsized quiver for you!
Hey Ken,
Sold the Doggy model about a year ago now and since riding some production shortboard style SUP's I would say the Doggy was one of the better paddlers (obviously going to a low volume nose with more rocker you have to take that into consideration) and for the size I ordered, was probably the best for surfing. I still like the hybrid style as I can be more aggressive with my paddling due to the increased balance whilst still enjoy surfing with the advantage of a few cheater 5's and Helicopter attempts. When you go from the hybrid to the Doggy the best part is freeing up the board when in the lip. Bugger, I am now starting to miss her now!!
Stick with it Ken and if you can afford a few boards as a quiver then for short board surfing style I don't think you will find any better.
John
Wow Dogman,
That board on the left looks awesome. I may have to plagiarise that spray on my next one although the resin bleeds Tully is doing look pretty sick too. I wish I wasn't so heavy footed as I need the full deck grip which covers up half the art work. Probably help if my wife didn't work at a bakery. ha ha
John
Top - standard nose/ swallow tail
Bottom - standard nose/rounded butt tail
Left - super hybrid nose / mutant tunnel rat swallow tail
Middle - high performance nose / rounded square tail
Right - hybrid nose / swallow tail
