Downwinder Frustration, Please help.

Thanks KJ good info.Are you a sailor?

Here is an old seabreeze article that has a little more info:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Articles/Stand%20Up%20Paddle/How-to-read-runners-on-your-Stand-Up-Paddle-board_3214256.aspx

There are some good tips going around in this thread and it is good to see so many sharing what they have learnt over the years.

One thing that will really shorten your learning curve (and, yes, it is long) is paddling with other more experienced paddlers. There are groups of downwind paddlers all over Australia now and if you try and hook up with them you will learn quickly.

Another thing - a good leg rope is the bare minimum piece of safety gear that everyone should use out there.

Tomorrow is looking fine for a S-N run on the Gold Coast and Northern NSW. If you want to paddle with me let me know.

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mikeman said..

One thing that will really shorten your learning curve (and, yes, it is long) is paddling with other more experienced paddlers. There are groups of downwind paddlers all over Australia now and if you try and hook up with them you will learn quickly.

the sure thing is you need to paddle with better paddlers. If you are on your own and start to get runners you might think "OMG it's unreal there is no way I could go faster" . And then you see the better guys passing you and you think you have glue under your board!! This is one of the rare sport you can be doing it with the very best next to you, so you can watch and learn from them. And don't think it's only about fitness and strength. Skill makes a huge difference so you should always wonder " what do they do that I don't ? "

Sounds good in theory Al Hunter & mikeman going Downwinding with better paddlers to learn. Because that doesn't work maybe in a flat water canal but not in the ocean. When I first started learning Downwind Paddling in 2003 I paddled with the Worlds best Jamie Mitchell and co. So we'd go for a Downwind paddle and after about 2 minutes you're on your own anyway I'd be floundering out in the ocean all by yourself. (in 2006 I was 2 kilometres out at sea coming into the Southport Seaway and this Great White about 12ft swims past me looking at me along the surface about 30ft away "Help Me Please Mr Wizard" last year 2012 I nearly ran over a big 8ft Tiger Shark about a mile out at sea on Maliko Gulch didn't I s##t).

I believe if you want to become a very good SUP downwind paddler is to learn on a Prone Paddleboard first. Maybe join a 6 man Outrigger Canoe but that can be very clickie I believe. Or you can pay a lot of money to have someone coach you. I've seen good mate Jeremy Riggs from Maui in action giving Downwind lessons he's the best in the business on the Planet when it comes to Downwind paddling coaching. Or go see Peter Dorris I believe he's a good paddle stroke correction coach I don't know the bloke but he comes from a Clubbie background coaching Elite Clubbies and everyone says he's good. Like Phil MacNamara is the best surfing coach on the Planet just look at Mick Fanning Phil MacNamara is always coaching Mick. Phil coached Mick to his first World Title in 2007.

This will get Red Thumbed I'm a level 2 advanced surfing coach and a level 3 International Judge, the feedback I get from surfers around the world is I'm good at it, which makes me happy because I'm not in it for the Money.

This book worth reading "Riding Bumps" it tells me stuff I already knew I shall I say we know, but it's worth a read it has Jamie Mitchell on the front cover. http://www.ridingbumps.com/




As a Surf Coach I wrote this for the Grommets in 2008 have a read or a laugh or even Red Thumb.

G’day GROMMETS here’s some helpful hints on how to become a better surfer.
By your friendly Contest Director ironfilthyphil

1.The younger you are the easier it will be to learn how to surf. Its great to be in a Boardriders Club as it will help you surf better than ya mates. I guess you must be in Burleigh otherwise you wouldn’t be reading this

2.Surf all day. Even if the surfs bad it will help you surf better plus it will sharpen your reflexes. Then when the surf is pumping you’ll be ripping stoked.

3.Get to know your surfboard shaper & stay with him for life.

4.Surf without a legrope it’s challenging & fun, this will stop you from falling off. Watch Occy surf – he never wears a legrope! As a grommet learning how to surf in the late 60’s early 70’s legropes had not been invented. I remember dragging my 9’6” Malibu down to the waters edge paddling right out the back I was 8-10yo, then a set wave would come & I’d lose my board & have to swim all the way back to the beach to start all over again. Then I got my hands on a 4’6” Midget Farrelly pop out still no legrope but easier & more fun to handle.

5.Learn how to swim! For when you lose your surfboard 80% of surfers can’t swim. Exercise: Grab the end of the pool, hold your breath, & sit underwater for 20 seconds. Come up, sprint 50 metres. Rest. Do this 10 times. In a month your lungs will be balloons capable of handling 15ft Sunset Beach for those unpleasant moments when your leggie snaps & you look at the beach a couple of hundred metres away & think oh f##k.

6.Learn how to hold ya breath for those massive hold downs. Breath Enhancement Training www.equalize.com.au Andrew Starks the CEO of Surfing Queensland can hold his breath for 4 minutes (lying still in the pool). World record; (lying still in the pool) 8 minutes 47 seconds, Tom Sietas Germany. The longest distance underwater in a pool (with fins) 200 metres, Peter Pedersen Denmark. Constant weight 102 metres, Carlos Costa Cuba. No limit (use of sled & the aid of air bag to shoot back to the surface) 160 metres, Tanya Streeter USA.

7.Work on ya flexibility. There are 2 types hypermobile (Mick Fanning, Taj Burrow) means a high level of flexibility, hypomobile (Dean Morrison, Occy) means a decreased levels of flexibility. These levels of flexibility are genetically determined at birth & do not change throughout life. The determining factor is the “stretchiness” of the collagen fibres in the body. The more stretchy these fibres the more hypermobile you will be, the more stiff these fibres the more hypomobile you will be. Hypermobiles like to stretch, Hypomobiles usually hate it! You can improve your flexibility by stretching, but you can’t turn a hypomobile into a hypermobile & visa-versa. Check out www.yogaforsurfers.com volume 1,2 & 3. (Taylor Knox, Tom Carroll)

8.Get professional coaching by a level 2 or 3 coach. Hope you got rich parents as it will cost between $70-$200 an hour (ring Surfing Queensland’s Phil McNamara 0419029058 or Martin Dunn www.surfcoach.com these two are the best two coaches in Australia. Phil McNamara has coached James “Billy” Watson, Jay “Bottle” Thompson & Dave Rastovich those 3 are the best surfers you’ll ever see surfing Burleigh Heads + Phil McNamara coached Mick Fanning to his first World Title.

9.Learn how to become a better/good Judge (ring Surfing Australia’s Head Judge Mr Glen Elliott 0419176924 he da man for a cost of $150 he’ll teach you how its done) because if your Judging is poor you’re most probably surfing like a kook.

10.Ride a Single Fin Surfboard when you feel your surfing is a bit dead. This will help put your surfing back on track’ the single fin will make you draw your line. Bottom turn, retry, cutback. Then the next time you hop on your thruster you’ll be ripping again.

11.Ride a skateboard to mimic your surfing. It will definitely improve your surfing. As a grommet I rode a skateboard full on from the ages of 10-15, 1971-76. (Chayne Horan) was king. Check out the skateboard movie DOGTOWN AND Z-BOYS it was like that,bulk fun. If you get on the internet get your hands on a Surfer Sam skateboard deck (Australia) & put Chicago Trucks (California) on it & you’ll have the best manoeuvrable skateboard in the world! I guess the next best skateboard would be the smooth star?www.smoothstar.com

12.Add some fun to your surfing, ride a MR twin fin when the surf is under 2ft & fat you’ll be surfing like (Jack be nimble Jack be quick Jack done a million turns on a little stick) bulk fun + the great Mark Richards won 4 World Titles on a twin fin. I believe every surfer should own a MR twin fin!

13.When you leave school choose your chosen career path that allows for plenty of afternoon shift so you can surf 365 days a year. I promise you you’ll never be deprived of a surf again stoked .

14.Travel; Surf other Surf breaks around the World don’t deprive yourself of this. The Chinese say 100 miles of travel is more educational than 100 years of school! You may even get your hands on a six foot five female Scandinavian blonde bomb shell that wants to take you home & smash you. I recon it’ll feel like coming out of bucking shoot number 3 on heavens above, nice.

15.Eating healthy! Will help you surf better. Nutrition is the most important thing you can do for your body & your body will reward you for it. Eat plenty of fruit & vegetables, fish & kangaroo steaks, drink 2-4 litres of water a day. I graze like a Mallee Bull all day! Here are 4 excellent books to read, The Lean Advantage volume 1,2, & 3 + Lean For Life by Clarence Bass www.cbass.com its like this. If you put unleaded petrol into a diesel motor the motor ain’t going to run! Same with food. So if you eat s##t food you will look & feel like s##t & maybe die young simple. Food containing Cholesterol does not build up & clog your arteries over time, it’s instant. (keep your blood thin) My cholesterol is around 4.0 - 4.5 that’s excellent. 8 & above is a walking time bomb (death). My resting heart rate is between 35 & 40 beats per minute so my insides are finely tuned.

16.Training will help you surf better. After the age of 25 your body starts to break down (old age)

The Surfers Workout volume 1 & 2 www.surfstronger.com

Skip rope for timing, 10 minutes of skipping is equivalent to a ½ hour jog (Shane Dorian)

Swim 1-2 kilometres in the pool twice a week (Mark Richards)

Swim in the ocean once a week from Burleigh to North Burleigh (Rob Rowland-Smith)

Jog in the soft sand 8-10 kilometres Twice a week (Laird Hamilton)

Join a Gym do an aerobics class there’s plenty of sheilas www.fitnessfirst.com (Tom Carroll)

Get your hands on a 16ft Stand Up Paddleboard for those down wind paddles when the surf is blown out & s##t www.paddlemaui.com (Gerry Lopez, Dave Kalama, Laird Hamilton, James “Billy” Watson, Buttons, Tom Carroll) are all into it. Yes grommets this is bulk fun + the fitness benefits & core strength that come with it will blow ya mind. You’re just fully surfing the oceans swells walking up & down the SUP like a Malibu surfboard just surfing from rail to rail for 200metres bulk fun.

That was such a good read for a Friday morning.. Put me in a good state of mind!
Lesson #14 is key to becoming a good waterman I think ( bedding a Scandinavian blonde) hahahaha classic!!!

That's a great point about getting out with more experience paddlers - something I've yet to do... I figured I needed to at least gets some basic competency first so then at least I had an excuse for slowing everyone else down.

I snuck out late yesterday for a quick NNE downwinder, 15 knots gusting probably 20. I'm travelling about 500 to 750m off the beach for most of it - a bit closer than I normally would, and you can see the swell is approx NE. I had my iphone in my pocket running Motion-x. It was showing I was averaging around 13 km/h.

This is the first time I've put the GoPro on the big board (14' 2013 glide) - so I was pretty curious (and frankly.... dismayed) to see how much I (wasn't) moving my feet. I thought I'd share the video in the hope of some constructive criticism for specific parts of the video. Kenny, I reckon we're pretty much at the same skill level from what you've said... I'm 47 and 100Kg. So figured some of the critique might contribute to this thread rather than start a separate one.

This is also my first go at posting a video - so don't expect a lot - it has no music, no fancy scene cuts - nothing to speak of really... so don't blame me if you can't bring yourself to watch it all. For those who do watch it, any specific advice on downwinding (not video production) would be great.

Work on your balance is one of the main things i see, all that twiching around you are doing slows you down. Try and keep your board level while paddling yes its hard but your board is designed to be paddling flat and it will make you faster. Also try and bring your feet in a little as they are draging in the water which will also slow you down.

That wind on the beach looked 20knots plus by the way as 20 knots is when sand starts hitting you in the Ankles!!

Jacko

You kept looking back and to the left. Your focus should be on the nose area of your board and the general area near the front third of your board. You need to look for the trough in front and aim to keep your board paddling downhill.

Also, as you are paddling solo I would highly recommend changing your colours. Your Blue rashie against a blue ocean will not help you get spotted if you need any help. You have a white board, blue rashie and light brown boardies. Try chose colours that contrast with the water and white caps.

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mikeman said..

You kept looking back and to the left. Your focus should be on the nose area of your board and the general area near the front third of your board. You need to look for the trough in front and aim to keep your board paddling downhill.

Also, as you are paddling solo I would highly recommend changing your colours. Your Blue rashie against a blue ocean will not help you get spotted if you need any help. You have a white board, blue rashie and light brown boardies. Try chose colours that contrast with the water and white caps.

I see these videos where there always seems to be a trough somewhere in the vicinity, so as it dies out in front a quick turn to the left or right will pick it up again with a couple of paddles, I'm finding the that I get on a runner, but rarely seems to be able spot a good link up. I guess that might be because I'm looking behind me, not in front . I didn't even realise I was doing that.

Next time I will be resplendently bedecked in my ceremonial fluoro boardies and taxi orange themed (yet incredibly stylish) paddling top.

www.ocpaddler.com/game

Nice little game from an OC website, but the theory is the same. I just got a distance of 317 on my third go by applying the "paddle downhill only" theory.

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PeterP said..

You look the same as I do on the 23"......with the board being a little too tipsy for you (would be at 100kg) and as Jacko indicated it will affect your board speed. I think you are doing great, though - no falls and continued paddling.

But the instability is affecting your stroke, because you are using the paddle to semi-brace through the stroke. Your paddle is too far off the side of the board (2-3 inches away from rail), if you can get your paddle vertical and under the board you will find much better acceleration. Its all about timing the paddle stroke and then getting your weight off your feet and onto the paddle - the more vertical the paddle the more this works. And vertical means paddle right under the board.

I reckon you will be much more comfortable on the 29" wide Glide as you will be able to paddle more efficiently. But 13km/h is a very, very good average speed....

Don't worry I had a few falls at least in the first part - the give away is standing there dripping wet as if nothing happened! I think you are spot on about the stroke - in clean water I reckon I'm a pretty good paddler, but this board does require a lot of concentration when it's choppy. I've got the new one on order (when will they ever come !!@#). I know people reckon the 2013 glide is a great board, but I'm finding it a bit unforgiving. I had a ride of a DC14 in some small river waves, and I felt that was a very comfortable board - I think it was 30". However, I did have a great session on the glide on glassy 5' rollers one day which really opened my eyes to the possibilities of the board.

Thanks for the comforting message on the speed... that of course doesn't include the beach start, etc. It's probably obvious from the the video, but I was missing heaps of runners that I should have got and I'm sure other people would've been miles ahead of me. I just got back from the reverse run from a rather unpleasant SE wind, apparently 15 knots gusting 25 with building swell. Average speed was just 7km/h - I'll see if I can find anything from the GoPro that is even worth posting, but I doubt it - just too chaotic. Couldn't apply any of the great info suggested in this thread unfortunately.

Foamballer, I would highly recommend that you try hook up with Alain as he lives near you and is always frothing for a downwinder. He goes by "Al Hunter" and was probably on the water with you yesterday. He went from Broken Head south to Lennox, or somewhere down there. He got a max GPS speed of 27km/hr so must have got some epic runs.

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Al Hunter said..

Let's bring some controversy here
I agree that a leveled board allows most of us to paddle stronger and faster. But I don't agree that a level board will go faster because it has been made to be leveled. Some boards do some don't.
If you have the right board, enough skills to paddle on the rail and keep this momentum (which means you still have to feel stable in that position) and have a strong and regular paddle stroke you won't be slower, you'll be faster.

It obviously works for you with the speeds you have managed to get out of those new DC/NSP designs lately. I am only a cruiser so am much more comfortable on a level board and certainly don't get those same speeds. This could be interesting topic to discuss further as there may be more ideas on this out there...

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NNSUP said..

Always worth carrying a phone and even a flare. Paddling in a fluro top makes plenty of sense as well.

Fluoro tights are also worth considering.

Thanks again Downwinder, you're a legend!
You have been real helpful.
Cheers,
Ken.