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Hi JB,
It's interesting how power seems to get better results than cadence although you still have Avery high rate compared to mine, you must be a lot younger
i don't think you or I are over thinking this as you see results straight away when you try different styles of paddling instead of just doing one thing. A good catch with the paddle is critical, how far do you bury it when you go for power?
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As you said JB I think you need a video to really see what's going on. I know what I think I am doing and what I am actually doing are 2 different things.
Fins would be interesting! I use the VMG Maliko 35 at the moment which is very light but maybe Ishould use my Danny Ching for these time trials?
Oh dont start on fins as well!
Paddle length,blade size,cadence.
I am sure burchas will chip in, he is a wealth of knowledge. There were some good posts about fins on standupzone he was involved in.
I dont know but I think the Danny Ching fin is huge. I nearly bought one. Then I saw one! I think you want the smallest fin possible for flatwater/time trials. I imagine the VMG fin is a faster fin in the flat as long as you are ok with the stability and tracking.
I could be completely wrong and cant afford to buy 200 euro fins to experiment! Which is why info from burchas and others is great. Thanks. Not the guy in the shop saying its awsome buy it.
but since both Dave and JB are mixing it in...
9 km/h average on a 12 km course is not given to everybody by a long shot :-) I would need a strong tide at my back to get there so definitely Burchas is doing everything right.
I do believe that when you have an acceptable technique then the intensity of the effort you can provide on each stroke and maintain over a long time is the most significant difference. I whimp out and can't sustain that is for sure but I can see the difference on the screen of the GPS....
Ok. Burchas you could take a door and whip most people. What is that board and how old is it?
9km /h avg on a 12'6!
I warned you! Now you have to buy 4 fins!
You guys made me think and take another look at DPS, SPM and other fun stuff that I had not looked at since long forums discussion with Bryce Dyer and others at StandUp Zone.
I just ran Average Speed / Average Stroke Per Minute as a kind of "efficiency" measurement for all my paddles and boards in different conditions. i.e. it makes a lot let sense during a downwind that on flat water....
In most cases, it came out the highest ratio matching the highest average speed but there were a few exceptions.
Fins fins fins LOL .
OK did a 5km last night and another one this morning. Not ideal conditions and the tide/water is getting really shallow on the lake, so aside from getting taxed with bottom effects, I am actually hitting the bottom to the point I nearly lost my paddling when it stuck into the mud.
But, With serious concentration on 2:1 Water to air and less on Cadence I think I have found the cross roads. Times were 33:34 and 33:51. Lots of tide and wind (so aided one way and taxed the other). I am of the thinking that I need to get my cadence up around 50SPM av. I have been playing down around 40 - 45 and think I have slipped into another performance void. It is funny trying to work it all out. And most annoying that the conditions almost always differ too. I think cadence must equal board speed, but power needed to get board speed up is taxing. But more water to air with a gradual build up and maintaining rhythm should work, its just knowing the right rhythm to go for. It is full cycle with components of a good stroke.
This mornings efforts.
Abvious to see the tide going east and north. Wind was SW also, made for a hard return against tide and wind.
Stride length is very good, maybe a little too good. 3.4m is long, and maybe why I am bleeding a little too much speed.
Heart rate was up higher than I try for in training. But the wind and tide was killing me on the way back. Usually try for 138 Average, so 140 aint that bad considering. 148 was likely cross chop/wind/tide and buoy turns.
So much to take in.
Always learning. Maybe I need some more fins. BTW, loving the VMG TT fin. I have gone back to it and it feels fast. Just need a good day to wind it out.
JB
It seems that when you go down to 40-45 and posting 3.4m per stroke there is some idling in effect. If the tidal force is strong, you could be at 3.8 even 4 which is not unheard of. Slower cadence and longer than 2:1 with the tide. Fast cadence and 1:1 against if tidal effect is substantial, otherwise, you maybe loosing ground as it's unlikely you'll maintain board speed since you're always fighting to bring the board up to speed.
ok, here's the first of many paddle analysis I plan to do. I made up a noodle floating gauge, each colour is 30cm long. The idea was to approach the noodles from about 20 meters aways to get up good speed and set into what I would call my 80% stroke.
This is the same pass twice, the second one has the shaft angles market up. My DPS is roughly 3m. Catch was good with no slip and coming out equal or in front of entry.
So if paddle entry and exit is the same with no slip, does that mean blade size is irrelevant??
Man, now that's what I call commitment JB. Bravo. I can't get motivated enough to bring myself to that effort level.
Looking at your video analysis, I have few ideas for improvements. The torso twist and hinge at the hip before power sounds good.
Maybe you can post again once you included these 2 additions. also add-in the passes in real speed rather than just slo-mo so one can get the feel of the motion. Awesome stuff!
Great video and that feels like what I am trying to do but would have to do the same to see, with lock down coming I may be back on the water more often sooner than planned so I can try it out.
Noodle-tech video #2. Stroke on the starboard side. A little more torso twist which is interesting, also maybe a little more hip hinge. Good DPS at probably just over 3m.
Thanks Burchas,
Yes, timing the Hinge and catch are something to definitely work on. But also more important for me is not to power on too early and slip. Just a tight balance. From what I could gather, not powering too early is more important.
I have always been conscious of the tail sink. It is one of the main reasons I went with the 24" wide over the 22" to try get some more lift. I also nearly thing I am standing too far back still. I have a little more nose clearance than I think I need. But definitely coming on late with the hinge and body weight will bring everything back.
Thanks heaps for the insights. Gives me more and more to work on.
Back to the noodle this weekend I think.
Regards,
JB
BTW, I like that I am being modelled off Travis LOL 
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I think more knee bend may help too? I seem pretty straight in the knee?? This would help engage earlier and get more reach without over reaching.
So much to dial in 
. Travis is a master technician. No wasted movement. He's about the same built/height as I am and therefor my 
In regards to board pitch, it looks like you're on the sweet spot of the board, toes slightly forward center. You might be pushing water if you're going to move forward but that's something you can easily test and address with a GPS. If you can trim it better for flat water that's going to be
very helpful.
Beyond that I can see an immediate culprit you can address. Take a look at the picture below.
At this point you're still pulling the paddle, you can even see slight bent in the shaft, meaning you're pulling the blade upward which contributes to the tail sink. At the point where the blade is past your feet you should only be pushing down. ( see Travis )
Other than that, The Javelin does seem to have unbalanced Nose to tail volume ratio. My guess would be 10+ Liter difference . I think it's by
design, I like it when going in upwind chop, bottom turn and catching bumps, but downside is that extra pitch when trying to maintain top speed paddling flat water.
. I was doing this a while ago too, and thought I had eliminated it. I guess while working on pother things I have fallen back into some bad habits. I heavily sink the tail when I do this.
Great information in this thread. I have had a hip replacement and am currently holding off on a knee replacement, both on the left hand side. These issues affect my ability to incorporate hinging, bending the knees and twisting. Despite this, I am keen to improve my paddle technique. What recommendations are there for determining paddle length to develop my technique, whilst taking into account these mobility issues? I am sure that my current paddle length is probably too long, and therefore requires a higher lift to clear the board when transferring the paddle from one side to the other.
I should add that I am on a 14' x 28" Evo one. I generally paddle around a 10-12km distance and due to knees and hinging restrictions, my paddle technique would not be described as aggressive.
