Select to expand quoteoz surf said..Legion said..
I reckon dave should politely ask bjshack to stop referencing him or his product. Unless he subscribes to the modern philosophy of "any publicity is good publicity".
I did think the same. Unless JB has some financial interest in the product.
For the reference, i have no financial interest, i pay for all my Rpela products.
Im simply trying to fill in a few blanks as some may know, Dave is super busy. But one think that is so clear, the same Nay sayers really have zero clue about how these products work.
For those who have a personal problem with me, you should also know i use seat belts daily, i ride with a helmet and use modern medicine.. I'd suggest you avoid these products also
At the end of the day, nothing beats removing problem sharks to reduce frequency of unwanted incidents & as people have pointed out. The controverisal WA drumline cull, although carried out at the wrong time of year, using the incorrect fishing tackle for GW & ending prematurely did have a positive effect on the frequency of negative human/shark interation. The last 5 weeks have seen a great deal of near misses, a few more bumps happened than documented in WA & I guess coz no one lost a leg & no one died its not a big deal.
We've had these shark threads so often, I'm tired of them. I grew up in a time when fear of shark attack was way off the beaten track and rare. Times have changed greatly. Its ridiculous to argue removing great white shark protection effects ecology when the protection itself effects ecology. Great white shark behaviour has changed over the last couple of decades because our behaviour, our response to these creatures has changed. In 1998 GW were protected & at about the same time the great Australian gun buy back sceme was in effect after Martin Bryant shot people in Tassie. Gun control laws changed, making it far more difficult for commercial fishermen to carry guns on their boats. In the past you did not have a shark circling your boat & you certainly did not have it chewing up your prop. You shot the barstard & sharks knew to stay away. They learnt as previously stated (learnt behaviours) to swim away in the opposite direction. They are now attracted as evidenced by countless fishermen. Want some fancy wanky Uni research reports, nope sorry not backing the required narative these days to meet the required research finding...yet, here we are...all seeing a greater number with our own eyes & a greater number of people dieing from GW sharks. A massive increase compared to the 80's & 90's, before human interaction messed with ecology by protecting GW's.
We have also stopped fishing whales & seals. Somehow these creatures have been put on a revered pedestal of untouchable greatness based upon being propped up as being in danger & now when the facts are plain to see we are still not responding responsively. What makes these animals any different to any others than the perceived viable worldwide number.
In the recent past a great deal of facts/research was collated from our fishermen. People who had a far greater understanding of our oceans than some greeny university student who's work was based on rewording the words of another just as clueless researcher. The same people (fishermen)s opinions on great white shark numbers are now being ignored when it was their input in the past which helped protect the species....why? I believe for the simple reason requiring more "research" provides these people with a job they enjoy & probably the almighty politically correct social justice warrior tag which is currently destroying the strength of Western society. Alarms have rung, its far past the time to wake up. But it is not too late.
Select to expand quoteMickPC said..
At the end of the day, nothing beats removing problem sharks to reduce frequency of unwanted incidents & as people have pointed out. The controverisal WA drumline cull, although carried out at the wrong time of year, using the incorrect fishing tackle for GW & ending prematurely did have a positive effect on the frequency of negative human/shark interation. The last 5 weeks have seen a great deal of near misses, a few more bumps happened than documented in WA & I guess coz no one lost a leg & no one died its not a big deal.
We've had these shark threads so often, I'm tired of them. I grew up in a time when fear of shark attack was way off the beaten track and rare. Times have changed greatly. Its ridiculous to argue removing great white shark protection effects ecology when the protection itself effects ecology. Great white shark behaviour has changed over the last couple of decades because our behaviour, our response to these creatures has changed. In 1998 GW were protected & at about the same time the great Australian gun buy back sceme was in effect after Martin Bryant shot people in Tassie. Gun control laws changed, making it far more difficult for commercial fishermen to carry guns on their boats. In the past you did not have a shark circling your boat & you certainly did not have it chewing up your prop. You shot the barstard & sharks knew to stay away. They learnt as previously stated (learnt behaviours) to swim away in the opposite direction. They are now attracted as evidenced by countless fishermen. Want some fancy wanky Uni research reports, nope sorry not backing the required narative these days to meet the required research finding...yet, here we are...all seeing a greater number with our own eyes & a greater number of people dieing from GW sharks. A massive increase compared to the 80's & 90's, before human interaction messed with ecology by protecting GW's.
We have also stopped fishing whales & seals. Somehow these creatures have been put on a revered pedestal of untouchable greatness based upon being propped up as being in danger & now when the facts are plain to see we are still not responding responsively. What makes these animals any different to any others than the perceived viable worldwide number.
In the recent past a great deal of facts/research was collated from our fishermen. People who had a far greater understanding of our oceans than some greeny university student who's work was based on rewording the words of another just as clueless researcher. The same people (fishermen)s opinions on great white shark numbers are now being ignored when it was their input in the past which helped protect the species....why? I believe for the simple reason requiring more "research" provides these people with a job they enjoy & probably the almighty politically correct social justice warrior tag which is currently destroying the strength of Western society. Alarms have rung, its far past the time to wake up. But it is not too late.
LOL so the duty free tasted all right then Mick
Select to expand quoteMickPC said..
We've had these shark threads so often, I'm tired of them.
Stop posting in them then...................
Select to expand quotejbshack said..
Im simply trying to fill in a few blanks as some may know, Dave is super busy. But one think that is so clear, the same Nay sayers really have zero clue about how these products work.
I've come to the conclusion that all these shark deterents are a bit like religion. Supporters continue to spout studies/truths/experiences but still fail to prove 1 single, simple thing
Select to expand quoteMDSXR6T said..jbshack said..
Im simply trying to fill in a few blanks as some may know, Dave is super busy. But one think that is so clear, the same Nay sayers really have zero clue about how these products work.
I've come to the conclusion that all these shark deterents are a bit like religion. Supporters continue to spout studies/truths/experiences but still fail to prove 1 single, simple thing
Thing is unlike religion, these devices don't claim to be a savior
Select to expand quoteIFocus said...
LOL so the duty free tasted all right then Mick
haha nah I just bought 4 bottles of vodka from a Taiwanese supermarket. Heaps cheaper than duty free 
Select to expand quoteMickPC said..
At the end of the day, nothing beats removing problem sharks to reduce frequency of unwanted incidents & as people have pointed out. The controverisal WA drumline cull, although carried out at the wrong time of year, using the incorrect fishing tackle for GW & ending prematurely did have a positive effect on the frequency of negative human/shark interation. The last 5 weeks have seen a great deal of near misses, a few more bumps happened than documented in WA & I guess coz no one lost a leg & no one died its not a big deal.
We've had these shark threads so often, I'm tired of them. I grew up in a time when fear of shark attack was way off the beaten track and rare. Times have changed greatly. Its ridiculous to argue removing great white shark protection effects ecology when the protection itself effects ecology. Great white shark behaviour has changed over the last couple of decades because our behaviour, our response to these creatures has changed. In 1998 GW were protected & at about the same time the great Australian gun buy back sceme was in effect after Martin Bryant shot people in Tassie. Gun control laws changed, making it far more difficult for commercial fishermen to carry guns on their boats. In the past you did not have a shark circling your boat & you certainly did not have it chewing up your prop. You shot the barstard & sharks knew to stay away. They learnt as previously stated (learnt behaviours) to swim away in the opposite direction. They are now attracted as evidenced by countless fishermen. Want some fancy wanky Uni research reports, nope sorry not backing the required narative these days to meet the required research finding...yet, here we are...all seeing a greater number with our own eyes & a greater number of people dieing from GW sharks. A massive increase compared to the 80's & 90's, before human interaction messed with ecology by protecting GW's.
We have also stopped fishing whales & seals. Somehow these creatures have been put on a revered pedestal of untouchable greatness based upon being propped up as being in danger & now when the facts are plain to see we are still not responding responsively. What makes these animals any different to any others than the perceived viable worldwide number.
In the recent past a great deal of facts/research was collated from our fishermen. People who had a far greater understanding of our oceans than some greeny university student who's work was based on rewording the words of another just as clueless researcher. The same people (fishermen)s opinions on great white shark numbers are now being ignored when it was their input in the past which helped protect the species....why? I believe for the simple reason requiring more "research" provides these people with a job they enjoy & probably the almighty politically correct social justice warrior tag which is currently destroying the strength of Western society. Alarms have rung, its far past the time to wake up. But it is not too late.
Unfortunately the government is too damn scared it will cost them votes ironically from people who never use the ocean
Its plainly obvious for normal people to see what needs to be done but with too many hoops to jump through expect more of the same
Select to expand quoteMDSXR6T said..jbshack said..
Im simply trying to fill in a few blanks as some may know, Dave is super busy. But one think that is so clear, the same Nay sayers really have zero clue about how these products work.
I've come to the conclusion that all these shark deterents are a bit like religion. Supporters continue to spout studies/truths/experiences but still fail to prove 1 single, simple thing
Actually id say people who are pro cull, are like anti vaxers. Theirs lots of supporting info out their, you just refuse to look for it or except it.
Not everything in life can be taught through social media
Jay Davies
Before paddling out for a four-hour session, Jay let us into his headspace on the issue of sharks: "They've always been here. If you're scared of sharks, don't go surfing. And if you start thinking of sharks, go the **** in."
stabmag.com/stabcinema/no-contest-margaret-river-cancellations-shark-hysteria-pathetic-aussie-impersonations-and-jay-davies-tube-fests/
Select to expand quotejbshack said..MDSXR6T said..jbshack said..
Im simply trying to fill in a few blanks as some may know, Dave is super busy. But one think that is so clear, the same Nay sayers really have zero clue about how these products work.
I've come to the conclusion that all these shark deterents are a bit like religion. Supporters continue to spout studies/truths/experiences but still fail to prove 1 single, simple thing
Actually id say people who are pro cull, are like anti vaxers. Theirs lots of supporting info out their, you just refuse to look for it or except it.
Not everything in life can be taught through social media
That's funny cos I think the guys who belive in unproven electro mag deterrents are the gullible idiots more akin to anti vaxers ala the letterbox on head comparison.
Straight through to the keeper I guess on that one.
Another interesting thing going on in this "debate" is the way the shark huggers fail to differentiate between different levels of risk mitigation. Ie any kind of proposed action is screamed down as being against the natural order of things a bit like a religion or cult.
They can't differentiate between smart drum lines and a cull for example.
The guys wanting action are often accused of screaming or ranting etc but the only crazy stuff going on I've seen has come from the shark cult side. There are some real fruitloops in that camp and id bet pretty much whete all the anti vaxers would sit.
Th
Select to expand quotejbshack said..
Theirs lots of supporting info out their, you just refuse to look for it or except it.
Not everything in life can be taught through social media
Let's cut the bull****.
Shark Shield site has a bunch of big claims, some testimonials, test results featuring decoys, baits and videos of random sharks (misleading at best given only 1 species is really an issue) and 1 grainy 20sec of a video of a bloke near a solid white shark (ballsy though). Also trying to raise $5M. If the technology works its a sure fire way to make easy money so it shouldn't be that hard to come up with the money?
The rpela site has no videos, some pretty photos etc and also results based claims but no real evidence. Remember a photo speaks a thousand words and a video, 10 thousand.
Lets not even go into Sharkbanz, Anti Shark-100 and SharkShocker as i'm sure we can all agree the anti shark spray wont work? A white shark may indeed fear a 7m, 5000kg orca but i dont think a stripey surfboard or wetty causes them any real concern?
The last thing i want to do is discredit anyones work, without it we'll never move forward but let's not keep making claims with misleading testing.
Every 2nd person doing anything remotely interesting can upload a half decent video in this day and age so i'm not sure why shark detterent testers cant? GoPros on gumtree are cheap and you can live bait a 15kg sambo easily so not sure why that is so hard?
As for social media, well i don't even have facebook (im 33..) but given a million++ people have seen a seabreezer get nailed by a dolphin in just a few days i'm very sure the day a video is released of one of these devices stopping a 5m angry white shark attacking a human or live bait, it will be seen by millions of water users world wide. Show a few repeated tests and they would sell thousands in the first month alone.
But hay, if you know where this footage is, please let me know as i'm yet to find it.
Select to expand quoteLegion said..
Let me just make it clear I've got no problem with Dave. I like him and have always enjoyed talking to him and surfing with him. If I see him in the carpark or in the water we have a chat and I like to hear what he's doing with his product, with his r&d and with his boards. It's just bjshack who I think is not the best advocate. Forum sentiment indicates I'm not alone.
Hahaha amen!
Select to expand quoteMDSXR6T said..jbshack said..
Theirs lots of supporting info out their, you just refuse to look for it or except it.
Not everything in life can be taught through social media
Let's cut the bull****.
Shark Shield site has a bunch of big claims, some testimonials, test results featuring decoys, baits and videos of random sharks (misleading at best given only 1 species is really an issue) and 1 grainy 20sec of a video of a bloke near a solid white shark (ballsy though). Also trying to raise $5M. If the technology works its a sure fire way to make easy money so it shouldn't be that hard to come up with the money?
The rpela site has no videos, some pretty photos etc and also results based claims but no real evidence. Remember a photo speaks a thousand words and a video, 10 thousand.
Lets not even go into Sharkbanz, Anti Shark-100 and SharkShocker as i'm sure we can all agree the anti shark spray wont work? A white shark may indeed fear a 7m, 5000kg orca but i dont think a stripey surfboard or wetty causes them any real concern?
The last thing i want to do is discredit anyones work, without it we'll never move forward but let's not keep making claims with misleading testing.
Every 2nd person doing anything remotely interesting can upload a half decent video in this day and age so i'm not sure why shark detterent testers cant? GoPros on gumtree are cheap and you can live bait a 15kg sambo easily so not sure why that is so hard?
As for social media, well i don't even have facebook (im 33..) but given a million++ people have seen a seabreezer get nailed by a dolphin in just a few days i'm very sure the day a video is released of one of these devices stopping a 5m angry white shark attacking a human or live bait, it will be seen by millions of water users world wide. Show a few repeated tests and they would sell thousands in the first month alone.
But hay, if you know where this footage is, please let me know as i'm yet to find it.
Sorry again showing the level of knowledge some have..
Did you know that in WA you have to pay for a permit, to be able to film a great white in WA for scientific testing.
Do some genuine research and find out whats involved. Much of what your wanting, will never be provided..
Select to expand quoteBara said..jbshack said..MDSXR6T said..jbshack said..
Im simply trying to fill in a few blanks as some may know, Dave is super busy. But one think that is so clear, the same Nay sayers really have zero clue about how these products work.
I've come to the conclusion that all these shark deterents are a bit like religion. Supporters continue to spout studies/truths/experiences but still fail to prove 1 single, simple thing
Actually id say people who are pro cull, are like anti vaxers. Theirs lots of supporting info out their, you just refuse to look for it or except it.
Not everything in life can be taught through social media
That's funny cos I think the guys who belive in unproven electro mag deterrents are the gullible idiots more akin to anti vaxers ala the letterbox on head comparison.
Straight through to the keeper I guess on that one.
Another interesting thing going on in this "debate" is the way the shark huggers fail to differentiate between different levels of risk mitigation. Ie any kind of proposed action is screamed down as being against the natural order of things a bit like a religion or cult.
They can't differentiate between smart drum lines and a cull for example.
The guys wanting action are often accused of screaming or ranting etc but the only crazy stuff going on I've seen has come from the shark cult side. There are some real fruitloops in that camp and id bet pretty much whete all the anti vaxers would sit.
Th
Bara you say unproven, just like the Anti vaxers claim..
I have no problem with people calling for action, i have a problem with people calling for action that wont do anything..
Select to expand quoteMDSXR6T said..jbshack said..
Theirs lots of supporting info out their, you just refuse to look for it or except it.
Not everything in life can be taught through social media
Let's cut the bull****.
Shark Shield site has a bunch of big claims, some testimonials, test results featuring decoys, baits and videos of random sharks (misleading at best given only 1 species is really an issue) and 1 grainy 20sec of a video of a bloke near a solid white shark (ballsy though). Also trying to raise $5M. If the technology works its a sure fire way to make easy money so it shouldn't be that hard to come up with the money?
The rpela site has no videos, some pretty photos etc and also results based claims but no real evidence. Remember a photo speaks a thousand words and a video, 10 thousand.
Lets not even go into Sharkbanz, Anti Shark-100 and SharkShocker as i'm sure we can all agree the anti shark spray wont work? A white shark may indeed fear a 7m, 5000kg orca but i dont think a stripey surfboard or wetty causes them any real concern?
The last thing i want to do is discredit anyones work, without it we'll never move forward but let's not keep making claims with misleading testing.
Every 2nd person doing anything remotely interesting can upload a half decent video in this day and age so i'm not sure why shark detterent testers cant? GoPros on gumtree are cheap and you can live bait a 15kg sambo easily so not sure why that is so hard?
As for social media, well i don't even have facebook (im 33..) but given a million++ people have seen a seabreezer get nailed by a dolphin in just a few days i'm very sure the day a video is released of one of these devices stopping a 5m angry white shark attacking a human or live bait, it will be seen by millions of water users world wide. Show a few repeated tests and they would sell thousands in the first month alone.
But hay, if you know where this footage is, please let me know as i'm yet to find it.
But with no real knowledge that's exactly what you are doing....
Select to expand quoteMickPC said..
At the end of the day, nothing beats removing problem sharks to reduce frequency of unwanted incidents & as people have pointed out. The controverisal WA drumline cull, although carried out at the wrong time of year, using the incorrect fishing tackle for GW & ending prematurely did have a positive effect on the frequency of negative human/shark interation. The last 5 weeks have seen a great deal of near misses, a few more bumps happened than documented in WA & I guess coz no one lost a leg & no one died its not a big deal.
We've had these shark threads so often, I'm tired of them. I grew up in a time when fear of shark attack was way off the beaten track and rare. Times have changed greatly. Its ridiculous to argue removing great white shark protection effects ecology when the protection itself effects ecology. Great white shark behaviour has changed over the last couple of decades because our behaviour, our response to these creatures has changed. In 1998 GW were protected & at about the same time the great Australian gun buy back sceme was in effect after Martin Bryant shot people in Tassie. Gun control laws changed, making it far more difficult for commercial fishermen to carry guns on their boats. In the past you did not have a shark circling your boat & you certainly did not have it chewing up your prop. You shot the barstard & sharks knew to stay away. They learnt as previously stated (learnt behaviours) to swim away in the opposite direction. They are now attracted as evidenced by countless fishermen. Want some fancy wanky Uni research reports, nope sorry not backing the required narative these days to meet the required research finding...yet, here we are...all seeing a greater number with our own eyes & a greater number of people dieing from GW sharks. A massive increase compared to the 80's & 90's, before human interaction messed with ecology by protecting GW's.
We have also stopped fishing whales & seals. Somehow these creatures have been put on a revered pedestal of untouchable greatness based upon being propped up as being in danger & now when the facts are plain to see we are still not responding responsively. What makes these animals any different to any others than the perceived viable worldwide number.
In the recent past a great deal of facts/research was collated from our fishermen. People who had a far greater understanding of our oceans than some greeny university student who's work was based on rewording the words of another just as clueless researcher. The same people (fishermen)s opinions on great white shark numbers are now being ignored when it was their input in the past which helped protect the species....why? I believe for the simple reason requiring more "research" provides these people with a job they enjoy & probably the almighty politically correct social justice warrior tag which is currently destroying the strength of Western society. Alarms have rung, its far past the time to wake up. But it is not too late.
Don't think there's too much argument that numbers are increasing, it's just not happening very quickly. Saying that there's likely to be an increase in the juvenile population (3-4m). There's also more people surfing in more locations more often (bloody FIFO!). Between that and overfishing in deeper waters it's likely we're seeing more interactions during salmon/whale/snapper spawning seasons.
It's also an interesting theory that there may be a behavioural element too, fits nicely with the likely increase in young, aggressive male sharks.
I have no issue with a cull (I prefer to call it fisheries management) but you need to know how many sharks there are and how many are required to support the population in the long-term before you can decide how many we can afford to take out. I don't think we should be hunting any species to extinction, at least not without understanding how that impacts the whole system. And if the issue is overfishing or too many frothers in the water than a cull is a poor justification for managing interactions!
I got no answers but they should have been putting money into this 20 to 30 years ago.
Greetings all,
I am pro fishing. Catch and kill, anyway that doesn't seem very likely in the near future.
The closest we will get is these smart drum lines if at all.
Anyway there are buses organised from Margie's grace town and I think yallingup to get up to Perth and have a good old fashioned protest.
This is as good as we may get, I'm going along to have a listen.
Apparently one of the lads has half a dozen gummy sharks he will be cooking up on a barbie.
Get involved
Select to expand quotejayet said..
There's also more people surfing in more locations more often (bloody FIFO!).
That's actually not true, according to Peter Sprivulus' published report: Western Australia coastal shark bites: A risk assessment
"Despite significant total population growth in Western Australia, water sport participation data for Western Australia in the 10 years 2001-2010 showed a non-significant decreasing trend from 4,171,000 to 3,394,000 surf sport or diving episodes per year"
Select to expand quoteLateStarter said..jayet said..
There's also more people surfing in more locations more often (bloody FIFO!).
That's actually not true, according to Peter Sprivulus' published report: Western Australia coastal shark bites: A risk assessment
"Despite significant total population growth in Western Australia, water sport participation data for Western Australia in the 10 years 2001-2010 showed a non-significant decreasing trend from 4,171,000 to 3,394,000 surf sport or diving episodes per year"
I would be interested to know where he got his numbers from.
Select to expand quoteLateStarter said..jayet said..
There's also more people surfing in more locations more often (bloody FIFO!).
That's actually not true, according to Peter Sprivulus' published report: Western Australia coastal shark bites: A risk assessment
"Despite significant total population growth in Western Australia, water sport participation data for Western Australia in the 10 years 2001-2010 showed a non-significant decreasing trend from 4,171,000 to 3,394,000 surf sport or diving episodes per year"
Cheers ... would have an open-access link to the report?
This is the report
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3941575/
high correlation between increase in shark attacks and whale population increase (0.9) . almost no correlation between west australian ocean based activity or state population growth (0.2)
Select to expand quoteBara said..
This is the report
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3941575/
high correlation between increase in shark attacks and whale population increase (0.9) . almost no correlation between west australian ocean based activity or state population growth (0.2)
The correlation with whales was not supported by McAuley et. al. (2016).
"... asynchronous 378 movements do not support one popular theory (Sprivulis, 2014) that white sharks follow 379 humpback whales (Megaptera novaeangliae) as they predictably migrate northwards along 380 the WA coast during winter (June-August) and southwards in spring (August-November; 381 Jenner et al., 2001; Kent et al., 2012)."
Cherry picking research aside it seems unlikely that white sharks aren't following the Humpback Whale migration, all I'm saying is the Sprivulus report is not consistent with the amount of frothers I see in the water. A bit like how the Hillary et. al. (2018) report determined there was no evidence of an increase in the number of great white sharks off the WA coast over the past decade is not consistent with what the fisherman and abalone divers are telling us. Research has it's limitations!
RAzz im over bothering discussing sharks on SB, one thing that is so clear is some people have zero idea..
But for the last time, i have never claimed to love sharks, im just a realist who understands that somethings can't be changed..
Good luck with it..
You post this in the other shark thread JB yet here you are.
Select to expand quotejbshack said..MDSXR6T said..jbshack said..
Im simply trying to fill in a few blanks as some may know, Dave is super busy. But one think that is so clear, the same Nay sayers really have zero clue about how these products work.
I've come to the conclusion that all these shark deterents are a bit like religion. Supporters continue to spout studies/truths/experiences but still fail to prove 1 single, simple thing
Actually id say people who are pro cull, are like anti vaxers. Theirs lots of supporting info out their, you just refuse to look for it or except it.
Not everything in life can be taught through social media
You going fishing JB
Careful you might catch a GWS
Might have to turn your shark shield to the peanut setting.
I have got to say its good to see that JB is annoying a whole new generation of surfers????
I used to care when i read BS now i do not
