What harness line lengths do you use for your sail range to stay hooked in in-flight so hook is holding sail pressure, not arms? My sail range is 8.0-5.8, for 8.0 ~29" works to take sail pressure in flight, but when I went to 7.2 sail 28" was too long bottoming out my new Ion Vario lines (34-28"). Use a seat harness, Dakine Reflex, and I can adjust the hook up/down but would like to keep it at the top position like a waist harness hook height.
5'10" wingspan, same as height.
24" lines for all windsurfing and windfoiling, except windfoil gets back connection moved forward, and closer together, by 4".
Sails 3.7 to 7.4.
Okay, thanks, so you are using the same length lines for different sails, maybe I stretched out my new lines on the 8.0 sail and that is why they were too long when I went to the 7.2 sail. Normally have the ends of the line next to each other on the boom, but if I spread them apart can reduce hook distance to boom by 2", probably get another 2" with my seat harness adjusted to the low position. Will try playing around with those adjustments next time.
Can move the boom up an inch or two too, have some 28" lines I have never used, will give them a try.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
Okay, thanks, so you are using the same length lines for different sails, maybe I stretched out my new lines on the 8.0 sail and that is why they were too long when I went to the 7.2 sail. Normally have the ends of the line next to each other on the boom, but if I spread them apart can reduce hook distance to boom by 2", probably get another 2" with my seat harness adjusted to the low position. Will try playing around with those adjustments next time.
Can move the boom up an inch or two too, have some 28" lines I have never used, will give them a try.
I like 34 inch lines for super windy conditions and for occasional downwinding, to get the rig away from my body to maintain balance.
30-32 would probably be better for lighter winds (especially upwind) but I put up with 34's to save swapping lines or using adjustables.
Select to expand quoteDavidJohn said..
Same length for all sail sizes..
Why would you change?
Good question DavidJohn, I always used 32" lines for windsurfing with all sail sizes, but they were too long for windfoiling to hold the sail pressure in the hook when in-flight. So I got adjustable lines and could adjust shorter than 32" for my 8.0 sail to hold the sail in the hook inflight, but when I went to my 7.2 sail they were too long at the lowest setting of 28" to hold the sail pressure in the hook inflight. So I thought I might need different length line for different sails when windfoiling versus windsurfing. But now I am wondering if I just stretched out/broke in the new Ion Vario lines and that is why they did not work with the 7.2 sail, and now should not work with the 8.0 anymore as well. The new Ion Vario lines are just a little too long at the shortest setting of 28" with both line ends next to each other on the boom.
The reason I am trying to get the lines to hold the sail pressure in the hook inflight is because my runs are 3/4 to 1+ mile long, and it gets tiring after a while holding the sail pressure using just my arms.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
32" for everything.
I know I standardized my boom placement recently for all my sails, maybe that has something to do with me needing shorter lines than when windsurfing. But I know in windsurfing sometimes in light winds I would have the line fall out of the hook as I moved closer to the sail to keep balanced. That is what I feel is happening with foiling, when I get inflight I need to move closer to the sail, and so I have to use my arms to pull the boom closer to me than the lines do. Maybe I am getting more better in tuning my rig/foil so I am moving faster for the same wind speed, and so that creates less pressure on my sail and harness lines.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..Grantmac said..
32" for everything.
I know I standardized my boom placement recently for all my sails, maybe that has something to do with me needing shorter lines than when windsurfing. But I know in windsurfing sometimes in light winds I would have the line fall out of the hook as I moved closer to the sail to keep balanced. That is what I feel is happening with foiling, when I get inflight I need to move closer to the sail, and so I have to use my arms to pull the boom closer to me than the lines do. Maybe I am getting more better in tuning my rig/foil so I am moving faster for the same wind speed, and so that creates less pressure on my sail and harness lines.
More likely IMO you are not extending your arms enough. You are trying to stand more upright but bringing the sail too close on bent arms...
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said..Sandman1221 said..Grantmac said..
32" for everything.
I know I standardized my boom placement recently for all my sails, maybe that has something to do with me needing shorter lines than when windsurfing. But I know in windsurfing sometimes in light winds I would have the line fall out of the hook as I moved closer to the sail to keep balanced. That is what I feel is happening with foiling, when I get inflight I need to move closer to the sail, and so I have to use my arms to pull the boom closer to me than the lines do. Maybe I am getting more better in tuning my rig/foil so I am moving faster for the same wind speed, and so that creates less pressure on my sail and harness lines.
More likely IMO you are not extending your arms enough. You are trying to stand more upright but bringing the sail too close on bent arms...
But if I extend my arms I will pull the rig over and depower the sail, I have tried that. I think it is just that there is so much less pressure on the sail that I have to pull it towards me, and me towards the sail, to keep it powered up, otherwise I will drop out of flight.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..Grantmac said..
32" for everything.
I know I standardized my boom placement recently for all my sails, maybe that has something to do with me needing shorter lines than when windsurfing. But I know in windsurfing sometimes in light winds I would have the line fall out of the hook as I moved closer to the sail to keep balanced. That is what I feel is happening with foiling, when I get inflight I need to move closer to the sail, and so I have to use my arms to pull the boom closer to me than the lines do. Maybe I am getting more better in tuning my rig/foil so I am moving faster for the same wind speed, and so that creates less pressure on my sail and harness lines.
Stop moving closer. Keep the rig upright.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..Sandman1221 said..Grantmac said..
32" for everything.
I know I standardized my boom placement recently for all my sails, maybe that has something to do with me needing shorter lines than when windsurfing. But I know in windsurfing sometimes in light winds I would have the line fall out of the hook as I moved closer to the sail to keep balanced. That is what I feel is happening with foiling, when I get inflight I need to move closer to the sail, and so I have to use my arms to pull the boom closer to me than the lines do. Maybe I am getting more better in tuning my rig/foil so I am moving faster for the same wind speed, and so that creates less pressure on my sail and harness lines.
Stop moving closer. Keep the rig upright.
Not sure what you mean by that. I am pulling on the boom with my arms to stay powered up, so the sail and I come to a balanced position based on my weight and the wind strength. And since the harness line is too long I have to bend my elbows to exert pressure on the sail, if I kept my arms straight And leaned out I would pull the sail over and depower, if I keep my arms straight and let the sail pull me upright it will also depower.
The only solution I can think of is to shorten the harness lines, and I know that worked with my 8.0 sail when the lines were new. With shorter harness lines my elbows will be bent, but as long as my hook is carrying the sail pressure I do not care!
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
Not sure what you mean by that. I am pulling on the boom with my arms to stay powered up, so the sail and I come to a balanced position based on my weight and the wind strength. And since the harness line is too long I have to bend my elbows to exert pressure on the sail, if I kept my arms straight And leaned out I would pull the sail over and depower, if I keep my arms straight and let the sail pull me upright it will also depower.
The only solution I can think of is to shorten the harness lines, and I know that worked with my 8.0 sail when the lines were new. With shorter harness lines my elbows will be bent, but as long as my hook is carrying the sail pressure I do not care!
I've recently purchased some race harness lines that are incredibly easy to adjust by just pulling on a handle. It has been really easy to get everything positioned with the right length with them.
Im on 30's, I used 26s when I started foiling, but pretty fast went back to longer (same size I used windsurfing). In the beginning most foilers are very upright so have problems relaxing into the harness and hence go for shorter lines. You just have to learn to relax and get your weight out. Sails above 5m dont suit an upright stance anyway.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..Grantmac said..Sandman1221 said..Grantmac said..
32" for everything.
I know I standardized my boom placement recently for all my sails, maybe that has something to do with me needing shorter lines than when windsurfing. But I know in windsurfing sometimes in light winds I would have the line fall out of the hook as I moved closer to the sail to keep balanced. That is what I feel is happening with foiling, when I get inflight I need to move closer to the sail, and so I have to use my arms to pull the boom closer to me than the lines do. Maybe I am getting more better in tuning my rig/foil so I am moving faster for the same wind speed, and so that creates less pressure on my sail and harness lines.
Stop moving closer. Keep the rig upright.
Not sure what you mean by that. I am pulling on the boom with my arms to stay powered up, so the sail and I come to a balanced position based on my weight and the wind strength. And since the harness line is too long I have to bend my elbows to exert pressure on the sail, if I kept my arms straight And leaned out I would pull the sail over and depower, if I keep my arms straight and let the sail pull me upright it will also depower.
The only solution I can think of is to shorten the harness lines, and I know that worked with my 8.0 sail when the lines were new. With shorter harness lines my elbows will be bent, but as long as my hook is carrying the sail pressure I do not care!
No
Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..
Im on 30's, I used 26s when I started foiling, but pretty fast went back to longer (same size I used windsurfing). In the beginning most foilers are very upright so have problems relaxing into the harness and hence go for shorter lines. You just have to learn to relax and get your weight out. Sails above 5m dont suit an upright stance anyway.
I started out with my 32" windsurfing lines, they worked with my 9.0 most of the time, exception was really light wind when inflight and the wind dropped, found I could stay up by pulling the boom towards me, felt like I was holding the board up (inflight) with my arms. But with my 8.0, and more so my 7.2 and 5.8 found the 32" lines were too long, will get it figured out next time, probably 27" will work for my smaller sails. Have fixed 28" lines on, will try spreading apart some to reduce length, then go to hook height, and then boom height last if needed.
You can try clip harness lines. Caveats: I think they are really meant for standard diameter grip booms and they are hard on the grip of my skinny boom (I wear gloves anyway). Also, I can't shake the feeling that they stretch under load and end up being longer than set. OTOH, they seem to last forever.
Bent elbows are bad, pulling with either arm is bad. Get the rig upright and put the force of the sail into the harness lines.
Even foiling with a lowish boom, waist harness and sails under 4m I'm running 32" lines.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
Bent elbows are bad, pulling with either arm is bad. Get the rig upright and put the force of the sail into the harness lines.
Even foiling with a lowish boom, waist harness and sails under 4m I'm running 32" lines.
At one point I started using shorter lines foling. I seem to be reverting to long lines - same as windsurfing.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
You guys must be on wide foil boards to use lines that long.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Windfoiling-on-Klamath-Lake--Oregon#2571491
There is Grantmac on a relatively narrow board .... check the arms.
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said..Sandman1221 said..
You guys must be on wide foil boards to use lines that long.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Windfoiling-on-Klamath-Lake--Oregon#2571491
There is Grantmac on a relatively narrow board .... check the arms.
Yeah, I did and his elbows are bent, You guys are fun!
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..gorgesailor said..Sandman1221 said..
You guys must be on wide foil boards to use lines that long.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Windfoiling-on-Klamath-Lake--Oregon#2571491
There is Grantmac on a relatively narrow board .... check the arms.
Yeah, I did and his elbows are bent, You guys are fun!
Never mind... you are right. Everyone else is wrong... carry on.
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said..Sandman1221 said..gorgesailor said..Sandman1221 said..
You guys must be on wide foil boards to use lines that long.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Windfoiling-on-Klamath-Lake--Oregon#2571491
There is Grantmac on a relatively narrow board .... check the arms.
Yeah, I did and his elbows are bent, You guys are fun!
Never mind... you are right. Everyone else is wrong... carry on.
Honestly, if someone wants to BS me about foiling please pm me, cause there are a lot of foilers who are looking for good useful information on Seabreeze.
I use 30" on the bigger sails and 32" on the smaller ones (3.3 downwards) . The difference comes from the reduced withness of my smaller boom. I had to lengthen my lines about 2" as I use them in windsurfing. The longer lines helps me to be hocked in, even when the sail is completely off, getting fast back in a powered up sail position.
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said..Sandman1221 said..
You guys must be on wide foil boards to use lines that long.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Windfoiling-on-Klamath-Lake--Oregon#2571491
There is Grantmac on a relatively narrow board .... check the arms.
I think I was using ~30" (adjustable) lines then on a board with the front straps outboard and a standard diameter boom.
Now using 32" fixed, board with straps on centerline and a skinny boom. Plus I now use a hook that adds about 1" of effective length compared to my old roller bar.
I'd say board width might actually be inverse to line length but I haven't foiled on anything really wide in years.
I use NP adjustable 24"-30", on 81cm wide foilboard, wide straps spread and wide stance, mastbase at 130cm from front screw of tuttle,
I'm using AFS 95 with f800 and f700 wings, sails from 4.2 to 7.8,
24 length up and cross wind, lengthen to 30 for downwind. I use 28" on my windsurf equip.
I had the same feeling while foiling of the harness line falling out with 28".
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..gorgesailor said..Sandman1221 said..
You guys must be on wide foil boards to use lines that long.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Windfoiling-on-Klamath-Lake--Oregon#2571491
There is Grantmac on a relatively narrow board .... check the arms.
I think I was using ~30" (adjustable) lines then on a board with the front straps outboard and a standard diameter boom.
Now using 32" fixed, board with straps on centerline and a skinny boom. Plus I now use a hook that adds about 1" of effective length compared to my old roller bar.
I'd say board width might actually be inverse to line length but I haven't foiled on anything really wide in years.
In my experience on larger boards I can more efficiently use shorter lines. I ended up using 30" on both my racing setup (1m wide & 10m) and freeride setup (3 strap 70 wide & 3.0-4.9).
For the racing setup in really light wind I might go shorter (about 28" minimum) to allow a more efficient 7-stance. In high winds I might go a little longer (32" max) depending on the chop/ waves and gusts. The gustier the longer, the wavier the closer to 30" I stay.
For my freeride setup I can use anything above 30" comfortably, dabbled with going to 34" for more freedom, but found that beyond 30" not much changes in terms of freedom, but I feel less efficient in lulls and more often accidentally hook in. Shorter than 28" really feels too short for me, no freedom of movement whatsoever and too direct connection to the sail in gusts. Ended up with 30" fixed lines.
Tbh its the same as wave vs slalom. Wave is close to the centerline of the board, the pro PWA guys are on 32-34" lines in general. Slalom further out, most are on 28-30" lines.
My advice remains the same, go shorter if you feel like it now, as most of us did that while learning. Just dont be afraid to lengthen them again if you're comfortable and are able to relax your arms a little more. A little longer lines (around 28-30" is optimal for most people) allow for a more efficient 7-stance to enable light wind riding and allow for more control in gusty weather. In the end its also for a big part about detaching your body weight position from the rig position unlocking higher speeds and control.
Sorry for the repeat.
I use same length as for windsurfing. 24".
Foe upwind and down, adj 24-30", 30 for downwind.
My wingspan is only 5'10".
Apes need longer lines.
