Select to expand quoteoscardog said..
Am considering getting a bigger foil for light winds. Often get 5-9mph on local lake with the odd 12mph gust and can only get my Neil Pryde RD Flight AL Foil going in gusts above that, maybe 15-18 mph
Appreciate thoughts on which of
A) 2019 Starboard Foil Freeride Aluminium 1100 cm wing
B) Slingshot HG Custom Infinity 84 Foil
C) other
is best in light winds
Please note how this Topic was started. What did oscardog asked above in the quote ?
What was the topic?
"Light wind: 2019 Starboard Freeride Al 1100 cm wing vs Slingshot HG Custom Infinity 84".
So the question was "what is best in light wind"?
How does SB FR1100 compare to SS i84, any other ideas ?
I have spend 2 years chasing light wind performance for heavy person
I had a promise from Slingshot first: "you just need a bigger front wing" so I started from i76, went through i84 then bought i99.
From the foil board side I had first Exocet RF91 then I had a promise from Slingshot about Flyer 280: "in the lightest puff of wind, on a mountain lake you can foil up in the air". O boy, Tony Logosz in "Slingshot Foil Academy" was so convincing, so I went and bought another brand new gear: Slingshot Flyer 280. I could still not fly in light winds so I build my custom "biplane" out of two Slingshot foils i84+i76 (tired both on taxi separator mast and my custom attachment). That setup had combined front wing surface of 3600cm2 (50% more than i99 itself!). You can read about it on both Seabreeze and NW Windtalk (more details if you search for).
Then I realized I was completely fooled, I was going totally in a wrong direction!
Again, in Light & Variable Wind the earliest possible Partial Plaining or Foiling is achieved by gaining speed with highly efficient High Aspect Race Foil like SB M1000(or at least Medium Aspect SB FR1100), Larger sail, leaning out in harness lines when you do not want to pump like a mad man to get on the foil just to come back down because there is not enough wind to sustain you "pure flying" or "pure foiling". I call it: "Foil assisted planing" & "Foil assisted partial planing".
For someone, like myself, who windsurfed for 40+ years, that has just the same feeling like Traditional Windsurfing which I love.
Now finally I can enjoy the Sport in much wider lower end wind range while others (more lightweight sailors) sit on the shore with their "pure foiling gear, large SS shovels" and complain that there are "no white caps" while I zoom by raking 30 to 60 miles in a day and doing quite a decent amount of "foil assisted planing" that would never be possible if I would replace foil with the fin.
This is my Personal Journey how I got to this point.
Your Journey may be different.
You may have steady stronger winds therefore you may enjoy whatever gear you have and it is perfectly fine.
BTW: There is nothing wrong with the Surfer Surfing on the regular table with legs up side down.
I have seen that. If you have high enough waves, you can do it.
Try to do it on the smallest waves and you realise you need to have highly efficient board well designed and optimized for it.
Select to expand quoteoscardog said..
Am considering getting a bigger foil for light winds. Often get 5-9mph on local lake with the odd 12mph gust and can only get my Neil Pryde RD Flight AL Foil going in gusts above that, maybe 15-18 mph
Appreciate thoughts on which of
A) 2019 Starboard Foil Freeride Aluminium 1100 cm wing
B) Slingshot HG Custom Infinity 84 Foil
C) other
is best in light winds
Please note how this Topic was started. What did oscardog asked above in the quote ?
What was the topic?
"Light wind: 2019 Starboard Freeride Al 1100 cm wing vs Slingshot HG Custom Infinity 84".
So the question was "what is best in light wind"?
How does SB FR1100 compare to SS i84, any other ideas ?
I have spend 2 years chasing light wind performance for heavy person
I had a promise from Slingshot first: "you just need a bigger front wing" so I started from i76, went through i84 then bought i99.
From the foil board side I had first Exocet RF91 then I had a promise from Slingshot about Flyer 280: "in the lightest puff of wind, on a mountain lake you can foil up in the air". O boy, Tony Logosz in "Slingshot Foil Academy" was so convincing, so I went and bought another brand new gear: Slingshot Flyer 280. I could still not fly in light winds so I build my custom "biplane" out of two Slingshot foils i84+i76 (tired both on taxi separator mast and my custom attachment). That setup had combined front wing surface of 3600cm2 (50% more than i99 itself!). You can read about it on both Seabreeze and NW Windtalk (more details if you search for).
Then I realized I was completely fooled, I was going totally in a wrong direction!
Again, in Light & Variable Wind the earliest possible Partial Plaining or Foiling is achieved by gaining speed with highly efficient High Aspect Race Foil like SB M1000(or at least Medium Aspect SB FR1100), Larger sail, leaning out in harness lines when you do not want to pump like a mad man to get on the foil just to come back down because there is not enough wind to sustain you "pure flying" or "pure foiling". I call it: "Foil assisted planing" & "Foil assisted partial planing".
For someone, like myself, who windsurfed for 40+ years, that has just the same feeling like Traditional Windsurfing which I love.
Now finally I can enjoy the Sport in much wider lower end wind range while others (more lightweight sailors) sit on the shore with their "pure foiling gear, large SS shovels" and complain that there are "no white caps" while I zoom by raking 30 to 60 miles in a day and doing quite a decent amount of "foil assisted planing" that would never be possible if I would replace foil with the fin (or Slingshot Shovels in the past using: i76, i84, i99).
This is my Personal Journey how I got to this point.
Your Journey may be different.
You may have steady stronger winds therefore you may enjoy whatever gear you have and it is perfectly fine.
BTW: There is nothing wrong with the Surfer Surfing on the regular table with legs up side down.
I have seen that. If you have high enough waves, you can do it.
Try to do it on the smallest waves and you realize you need to have highly efficient board well designed and optimized for it.
Select to expand quotemareks360 said..oscardog said..
Am considering getting a bigger foil for light winds. Often get 5-9mph on local lake with the odd 12mph gust and can only get my Neil Pryde RD Flight AL Foil going in gusts above that, maybe 15-18 mph
Appreciate thoughts on which of
A) 2019 Starboard Foil Freeride Aluminium 1100 cm wing
B) Slingshot HG Custom Infinity 84 Foil
C) other
is best in light winds
Please note how this Topic was started. What did oscardog asked above in the quote ?
What was the topic?
"Light wind: 2019 Starboard Freeride Al 1100 cm wing vs Slingshot HG Custom Infinity 84".
So the question was "what is best in light wind"?
How does SB FR1100 compare to SS i84, any other ideas ?
I have spend 2 years chasing light wind performance for heavy person
I had a promise from Slingshot first: "you just need a bigger front wing" so I started from i76, went through i84 then bought i99.
From the foil board side I had first Exocet RF91 then I had a promise from Slingshot about Flyer 280: "in the lightest puff of wind, on a mountain lake you can foil up in the air". O boy, Tony Logosz in "Slingshot Foil Academy" was so convincing, so I went and bought another brand new gear: Slingshot Flyer 280. I could still not fly in light winds so I build my custom "biplane" out of two Slingshot foils i84+i76 (tired both on taxi separator mast and my custom attachment). That setup had combined front wing surface of 3600cm2 (50% more than i99 itself!). You can read about it on both Seabreeze and NW Windtalk (more details if you search for).
Then I realized I was completely fooled, I was going totally in a wrong direction!
Again, in Light & Variable Wind the earliest possible Partial Plaining or Foiling is achieved by gaining speed with highly efficient High Aspect Race Foil like SB M1000(or at least Medium Aspect SB FR1100), Larger sail, leaning out in harness lines when you do not want to pump like a mad man to get on the foil just to come back down because there is not enough wind to sustain you "pure flying" or "pure foiling". I call it: "Foil assisted planing" & "Foil assisted partial planing".
For someone, like myself, who windsurfed for 40+ years, that has just the same feeling like Traditional Windsurfing which I love.
Now finally I can enjoy the Sport in much wider lower end wind range while others (more lightweight sailors) sit on the shore with their "pure foiling gear, large SS shovels" and complain that there are "no white caps" while I zoom by raking 30 to 60 miles in a day and doing quite a decent amount of "foil assisted planing" that would never be possible if I would replace foil with the fin (or Slingshot Shovels in the past using: i76, i84, i99).
This is my Personal Journey how I got to this point.
Your Journey may be different.
You may have steady stronger winds therefore you may enjoy whatever gear you have and it is perfectly fine.
BTW: There is nothing wrong with the Surfer Surfing on the regular table with legs up side down.
I have seen that. If you have high enough waves, you can do it.
Try to do it on the smallest waves and you realize you need to have highly efficient board well designed and optimized for it.
I foil inlands (Dallas, Texas) and I wish we had WA winds and swell but we don't (its no secret how jealous I am of it, lol) , we are the exact opposite an average day is 5-15 mph or 15-30 mph. Winds are more of a pulse meaning its 5 mph then a 30-60 second 15 mph gust so we are on the extreme ends of gusty winds.
All of the SS equipment (with maybe an exception the Flyer 280) you mention works very well in light & medium winds, the i99 with technique and pumping will get you foiling in 10/11 knots EASILY with a 6.0 (and I use to weigh 205 lbs/92 kg).
Select to expand quoteoscardog said..
mareks360 said..
CoreAS said..
All of the SS equipment (with maybe an exception the Flyer 280) you mention works very well in light & medium winds, the i99 with technique and pumping will get you foiling in 10/11 knots EASILY with a 6.0 (and I use to weigh 205 lbs/92 kg).
I also confirm that SS foil particularly i99 had been excellent for me in light wind conditions for 11-12 knots 220 lbs weight, using a 6.3 sail. I hope those are getting into foiling will not be discouraged with negative comments and change their mind about SS foil, especially heavy weight person in light wind areas, i99 is a good choice to start. Another option would be an Armstrong foil (1850 or 2400), though more expensive but a lighter construct, performing similarly.
Select to expand quoteSA_AL said..oscardog said..
mareks360 said..
CoreAS said..
All of the SS equipment (with maybe an exception the Flyer 280) you mention works very well in light & medium winds, the i99 with technique and pumping will get you foiling in 10/11 knots EASILY with a 6.0 (and I use to weigh 205 lbs/92 kg).
I also confirm that SS foil particularly i99 had been excellent for me in light wind conditions for 11-12 knots 220 lbs weight, using a 6.3 sail. I hope those are getting into foiling will not be discouraged with negative comments and change their mind about SS foil, especially heavy weight person in light wind areas, i99 is a good choice to start. Another option would be an Armstrong foil (1850 or 2400), though more expensive but a lighter construct, performing similarly.
Isn't the longest Armstrong fuse only 70 cm? Is that enough for windfoiling?
Starboard Supercruiser fuselage and Ocean 2400 wing also works very nicely, a bit more efficient than the I99.
Incidentally one of the sailors that is mentioned by Mareks360 is Darius and he switches to the Supercruiser/Ocean 2000/small sail combo whenever be doesn't have to ride the gigantic race gear because of how fun and playful it is.
Ironic how increasing foil size can do that.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..SA_AL said..
I also confirm that SS foil particularly i99 had been excellent for me in light wind conditions for 11-12 knots 220 lbs weight, using a 6.3 sail. I hope those are getting into foiling will not be discouraged with negative comments and change their mind about SS foil, especially heavy weight person in light wind areas, i99 is a good choice to start. Another option would be an Armstrong foil (1850 or 2400), though more expensive but a lighter construct, performing similarly.
Isn't the longest Armstrong fuse only 70 cm? Is that enough for windfoiling?
I got the original 80 cm fuselage for windfoiling. Later, I purchased the 60 cm thinking this will improve my turning but 80 cm is for sure more stable for windfoiling. I will likely graduate to wing foiling with 60 cm when the weather warms up to start learning wingthingy. Armstrong recently introduced the A+ system that is enforcing the screws with an additional barrel nut. Based on my conversation with Armstrong users, this may not be necessary for my set-up since I am not jumping or exerting major forces on my foil. In fact, I just purchased the new HS1550 V2 which is apparently a little higher aspect than the original HS1550 and thinner body, compatible with my existing fuselage. But I have the option to upgrade A+ system if that becomes an issue. According my recent communication, they are also working on the 80 cm fuselage in A+ upgrade but 80 cm fuselage does not appear on the current Armstrong website but image for the 80 cm fuselage A+ available on one of the North American distributor.
Select to expand quoteSA_AL said..Faff said..SA_AL said..
I also confirm that SS foil particularly i99 had been excellent for me in light wind conditions for 11-12 knots 220 lbs weight, using a 6.3 sail. I hope those are getting into foiling will not be discouraged with negative comments and change their mind about SS foil, especially heavy weight person in light wind areas, i99 is a good choice to start. Another option would be an Armstrong foil (1850 or 2400), though more expensive but a lighter construct, performing similarly.
Isn't the longest Armstrong fuse only 70 cm? Is that enough for windfoiling?
I got the original 80 cm fuselage for windfoiling. Later, I purchased the 60 cm thinking this will improve my turning but 80 cm is for sure more stable for windfoiling. I will likely graduate to wing foiling with 60 cm when the weather warms up to start learning wingthingy. Armstrong recently introduced the A+ system that is enforcing the screws with an additional barrel nut. Based on my conversation with Armstrong users, this may not be necessary for my set-up since I am not jumping or exerting major forces on my foil. In fact, I just purchased the new HS1550 V2 which is apparently a little higher aspect than the original HS1550 and thinner body, compatible with my existing fuselage. But I have the option to upgrade A+ system if that becomes an issue. According my recent communication, they are also working on the 80 cm fuselage in A+ upgrade but 80 cm fuselage does not appear on the current Armstrong website but image for the 80 cm fuselage A+ available on one of the North American distributor.
I held one in the shop, and was blown away by how light it was (and the shark-proof stripes!). I'm tempted, but... No videos or photos of anyone using them for windfoiling, no long fuse on the website make it hard to commit.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..SA_AL said..Faff said..SA_AL said..
I also confirm that SS foil particularly i99 had been excellent for me in light wind conditions for 11-12 knots 220 lbs weight, using a 6.3 sail. I hope those are getting into foiling will not be discouraged with negative comments and change their mind about SS foil, especially heavy weight person in light wind areas, i99 is a good choice to start. Another option would be an Armstrong foil (1850 or 2400), though more expensive but a lighter construct, performing similarly.
Isn't the longest Armstrong fuse only 70 cm? Is that enough for windfoiling?
I got the original 80 cm fuselage for windfoiling. Later, I purchased the 60 cm thinking this will improve my turning but 80 cm is for sure more stable for windfoiling. I will likely graduate to wing foiling with 60 cm when the weather warms up to start learning wingthingy. Armstrong recently introduced the A+ system that is enforcing the screws with an additional barrel nut. Based on my conversation with Armstrong users, this may not be necessary for my set-up since I am not jumping or exerting major forces on my foil. In fact, I just purchased the new HS1550 V2 which is apparently a little higher aspect than the original HS1550 and thinner body, compatible with my existing fuselage. But I have the option to upgrade A+ system if that becomes an issue. According my recent communication, they are also working on the 80 cm fuselage in A+ upgrade but 80 cm fuselage does not appear on the current Armstrong website but image for the 80 cm fuselage A+ available on one of the North American distributor.
I held one in the shop, and was blown away by how light it was (and the shark-proof stripes!). I'm tempted, but... No videos or photos of anyone using them for windfoiling, no long fuse on the website make it hard to commit.
That is exactly how I felt as I still don't see any Armstrong windsurf foiling videos except someone on this forum communicated using Armstrong foil for windsurf foiling. Based on that communication, I purchased HS1850 and later CF2400 and they performed as good as SS that I was using before. After I was satisfied with this new brand, I sold all of my SS foils (76,84 and 99 with 90 cm mast). Comparable foils of SS vs Armstrong show ~50% lighter weight and screws are titanium preventing any corrosion (I don't take it apart my wing/fuselage just leave it in my van). For 80 cm fuselage, you could ask folks at 2-rad.com where I got my 80 cm fuselage since the distributors in USA does not put 80 cm fuselage on their websites but you could ask the dealers for that option to see if they could get it.
I love the lightness of the Armstrong foil (~3.5 kg) since I would like to keep my energy for windsurffoiling rather than walking at long distance with 160 lt board plus 6.5 kg foil and at the beach and am planning to travel/fly with my gear at other locations. Armstrong is not widely targeting windsurf community but I am happy with my set up despite I had similar hesitation like you before I made my commitment.
PS: Stripes for scaring sharks is interesting but I hardly fall in to water and do not care about that; however, this might be beneficial for board foilers if that really works which I found it fascinating and wondering why surfers are not painting their boards with stripes (sorry I am off the topic)
Select to expand quoteSA_AL said..Faff said..SA_AL said..Faff said..SA_AL said..
I also confirm that SS foil particularly i99 had been excellent for me in light wind conditions for 11-12 knots 220 lbs weight, using a 6.3 sail. I hope those are getting into foiling will not be discouraged with negative comments and change their mind about SS foil, especially heavy weight person in light wind areas, i99 is a good choice to start. Another option would be an Armstrong foil (1850 or 2400), though more expensive but a lighter construct, performing similarly.
Isn't the longest Armstrong fuse only 70 cm? Is that enough for windfoiling?
I got the original 80 cm fuselage for windfoiling. Later, I purchased the 60 cm thinking this will improve my turning but 80 cm is for sure more stable for windfoiling. I will likely graduate to wing foiling with 60 cm when the weather warms up to start learning wingthingy. Armstrong recently introduced the A+ system that is enforcing the screws with an additional barrel nut. Based on my conversation with Armstrong users, this may not be necessary for my set-up since I am not jumping or exerting major forces on my foil. In fact, I just purchased the new HS1550 V2 which is apparently a little higher aspect than the original HS1550 and thinner body, compatible with my existing fuselage. But I have the option to upgrade A+ system if that becomes an issue. According my recent communication, they are also working on the 80 cm fuselage in A+ upgrade but 80 cm fuselage does not appear on the current Armstrong website but image for the 80 cm fuselage A+ available on one of the North American distributor.
I held one in the shop, and was blown away by how light it was (and the shark-proof stripes!). I'm tempted, but... No videos or photos of anyone using them for windfoiling, no long fuse on the website make it hard to commit.
That is exactly how I felt as I still don't see any Armstrong windsurf foiling videos except someone on this forum communicated using Armstrong foil for windsurf foiling. Based on that communication, I purchased HS1850 and later CF2400 and they performed as good as SS that I was using before. After I was satisfied with this new brand, I sold all of my SS foils (76,84 and 99 with 90 cm mast). Comparable foils of SS vs Armstrong show ~50% lighter weight and screws are titanium preventing any corrosion (I don't take it apart my wing/fuselage just leave it in my van). For 80 cm fuselage, you could ask folks at 2-rad.com where I got my 80 cm fuselage since the distributors in USA does not put 80 cm fuselage on their websites but you could ask the dealers for that option to see if they could get it.
I love the lightness of the Armstrong foil (~3.5 kg) since I would like to keep my energy for windsurffoiling rather than walking at long distance with 160 lt board plus 6.5 kg foil and at the beach and am planning to travel/fly with my gear at other locations. Armstrong is not widely targeting windsurf community but I am happy with my set up despite I had similar hesitation like you before I made my commitment.
PS: Stripes for scaring sharks is interesting but I hardly fall in to water and do not care about that; however, this might be beneficial for board foilers if that really works which I found it fascinating and wondering why surfers are not painting their boards with stripes (sorry I am off the topic)
How do the HS1850 and CF2400 compare?
Faff said..
How do the HS1850 and CF2400 compare?
CF2400 is like i99 and very good for light wind when I use -2 shim, slower but excellent lift. When the wind is around 15 mph, I go to 1850 that is faster. If you are below 190 lbs, HS1850 would be probably better as a first foil for light to medium wind.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
Starboard Supercruiser fuselage and Ocean 2400 wing also works very nicely, a bit more efficient than the I99.
Incidentally one of the sailors that is mentioned by Mareks360 is Darius and he switches to the Supercruiser/Ocean 2000/small sail combo whenever be doesn't have to ride the gigantic race gear because of how fun and playful it is.
Ironic how increasing foil size can do that.
Grant,
That comment requires clarification as this topic is about "Light Wind".
I have been Windsurfing/Windfoiling with Darius on Lake Washington over last few years, dozens of times, hundreds of hours and hundreds of miles around each other.
When it comes to "Super Light Winds" lets say 1mph-7mph, Darius is using Serenity.
When it comes to foilable "Light Winds" for Darius 5mph-15mph (G20mph), he is using SB 177 Foil Formula Board + SB M1000/115+/255 with mostly -2.0 shim.
To my knowledge and observation, Darius only is using SB Ocean surf 2000 foil ( & several smaller boards, some mods) when wind picks up more than 20 mph so he can ride swells on Lake Washington.
Yes Marek is correct what I'm using on Lake Washington in Seattle.
SB Serenity if below foiling wind. Mostly if below 5mph, 9.0m sail. Just cruising. Sometimes switching to SB phantom 377L.
SB 177, 1000/255/115+-2, from 5-20mph, 9.0-6.0m sails. Good lawn movers for miles.
SB Hypernut 106ltr, Ocean surf 2000, over 20mph 5.0-3.7m sails. Fun on swell or waves.
If I get free time and there is any type of wind, I'm going on water, don't care if it's super light or super strong. Just enjoying time on water 
. Foil is my favorite
