What foil to choose for a 50 year old clumsy bastard?

Lots of advice on Starboard choices here
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Light-wind--2019-Starboard-Freeride-Al-1100-cm-wing-vs-Slingshot-HG-Custom-Infinity-84
Good luck

Don't rule out all-carbon. Lighter. Stiffer. Yes, a bit more expensive, but worth it.

Sailworks still has the AFS-2 all-carbon with TWO wings for a killer price, not much more than the Moses 790 with one wing and aluminum mast and fuse. https://www.sailworks.com/the-gear/foiling/windfoils/afs-2-carbon-windfoil-package.html

With the big wing on the AFS-2 you can go out on a light day with a 7.0 sail and just cruise your brains out at a nice manageable speed. My learning curve jerked along in fits and starts until I started using the F800 wing on the AFS-2. Everything changed from fits and starts to easy cruising at 15 kts board speed, enjoying the scenery.

Yes, the Moses 790 has a bigger wing than the AFS-2 (1529 cm2 versus 1120 cm2), but the 1120 provides plenty enough low speed lift for easy cruising, even at my 90 kg weight. The AFS-2/F800 works for me with sail sizes 4.5 to 8.5.

Your looking at a couple of starboard foils and there is a reason for that. A local shop sells them, a local foiler uses the equipment, or ?. Duzzi recommends the Moses 790. Segler recommends the AFS foil. If I had started on Starboard, Moses or AFS equipment I bet I would be happy. If you put any of the these in a tow tank and ran them with 80Kg on top of them, I bet the minimum foiling speed would be within a 1 or 2 mph of each other. And there is a big difference in area between the Starboard at 1100 cm sq and the Moses at 1529 cm sq. I started on Slingshot 84 at 2066 cm sq and again I bet the minimum foiling speed is within 1 or 2 mph of the others.

Now the larger the foil area, the more speed limited the foil. But myself and others swear by the Slingshot 84 and the 99(at 2371 sq cm). One my ask what is the upside of a large area foil. The answer is the ability to glide thru a lull. Even though I will someday own a lower area race type foil I will never give up that ability to glide thru lulls. Hope this helps!

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AlexF said..
...
Many brands like e. g. SB or Moses don't do carbon fuselages because that's the trickiest part and they don't mastered it yet, and try to tell us "alu is better".
...

... almost no brand does carbon fuselages. The only one that does I think is indeed AFS. And it does not seem to give much advantage, given that all the top PWA finishers were on aluminum fuselages ...

best kit by starboard :

95 ally mast
95 fuselage
900 or 800 front wing
250 stab

this will get you going in any conditions with maximum control and confort

supercruiser is awesome but could get you frustated speedwise after a while

Many good advice here to choose from!
The aspect l would place emphasis on is the mast length!
I would not buy anything under 90-ish mast length. If not straight away but real soon you will be looking for that extra length so as not to fly off the water so soon!
ENJOY!
Ps...there's no age limit either!

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utcminusfour said..

duzzi said..

AlexF said..
...
Many brands like e. g. SB or Moses don't do carbon fuselages because that's the trickiest part and they don't mastered it yet, and try to tell us "alu is better".
...

... almost no brand does carbon fuselages. The only one that does I think is indeed AFS. And it does not seem to give much advantage, given that all the top PWA finishers were on aluminum fuselages ...

Horue does a one peice mast and fuse in cored carbon. The main advantadge is weight, it is really light at 280 grams and the assembleed foil floats, I can't emphisizw how important this is for enjoying freeride windfoiling. Carrying heavy gear out to deep water and back is not fun. I like the weight of my Horue but much prefer the ride qualities of my Mosses 790. I wish I could merge the two.

Agreed, Horue is one of the lightest foils made, It would be sweet if they made a wing like the Moses 790 that would fit my Horue fuselage.

SB Freeride or GT-R, the GT is fantastic but needs some real speed to work
Carbon is worth it if possible
Mast 85cm+ will be much better for windsurfing

Of the two you have suggested I would go the SB GT. It has a great wind range and, as Tibor suggested, the 95cm mast is almost essential. It is super stable and user friendly. Ally mast no problem on a freeride set up.

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AlexF said..
Hi Mario,
Greetings to Viana, are you one of the sailors in the Mino?
If yes I'd advice for a flatwater oriented foil, e. g. The Starboard GT.

What I (51 y old fart, 90kg) use at the flat days in Viana in summer on the ocean is an Aeromod foil with the LW wing. With this foil you also buy local, made in Europe, it's designed and build about 1000 km away from you near Toulouse, the wing profiles design helped by the Airbus engineers located there (But the Aeromod guys are to shy to mention that in their marketing).
You feel it when you ride it, there's no try an error in this foil like in many others. Plug and play.

Full carbon incl. the fuselage , highest quality and much lighter than e. g. Starboard.
Many brands like e. g. SB or Moses don't do carbon fuselages because that's the trickiest part and they don't mastered it yet, and try to tell us "alu is better".
It's a Freeride foil, easy to ride, fast and made my learning and schlepping much easier.
And it has an very reasonable price for a full carbon foil.
Alex

Btw. I also own a Moses Tortuga 873 Supfoil. I also use this foil for windfoiling in waves in Viana, but I don't think you asked for that.

Hi Alex

Thanks for your reply and help, going to look into the aeromd also.
What do you mean by "are you one of the sailors in the Mino"?

I windsurf in Viana, for now i only do slalom inside and outside the harbour. I have POR 100 on my sails and use Severne and Starboard, for sure we have meet on the water :)

Cheers

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mmilhazes said..
WOW

So many answers and tips.
Thank you very much guys!!

Isnt a bigger front wind like 1100 more stabel and user friendly than a 800 wing? Or am i wrong?

My idea is to lift as soon as i can and have stable flights i dont want fast and unstable flights because i have some back problems and the going up and down hiting the water hard will kill my back.

I am aiming to aluminium because i dont want do buy a expensive carbon foil, where i live we have lot of +15knots days so i will be on slalom gear.

So i have to consider a foil with a mast bigger than 75 and what about fuselage?

Thanks for all the help

There are a lot of different factors which determine stability. The farther you have the wings apart make the foil more stable fore-aft (pitch), so that would be height control. Having a wider wingspan would make the foil more stable side to side (roll). Having a wider chord (lower aspect ratio) softens the response of a wing, kind of flattens the powerdelivery bit. A smaller chord makes a wing more "fiery". The 100 and 900 both have a wider span than the 1100, but smaller chord. Based on that the 900 and 1000 wings should be more stable in roll stability, but the 1100 would be more "predictable".

Changing frontwings also slightly changes pitch stability, but that effect would be negligable for the average user. The effect of choosing a bigger or smaller stab is very noticable though, both increasing power and pitch stability with increasing size.

My PWA Racing foil is on the one hand the easiest foil I have to ride, with a wingspan of close to 1m and a fuselage of 110cm it is very stable both in pitch and roll. However the acceleration is imminent, and the acceleration and powerbuildup as a result is very direct.

A starboard supercruiser (i76) for example has way less pitch and roll stability, but a way softer powerdelivery aswell which might make it feel "easier" or more predictable.

In my esperience a wing like the i99 (my F-one 2200cm2 surfwing has a 110cm span) has both the roll stability and softness, but at great expense of responsiveness and speed. Plus the combo with a longer fuselage for pitch stability doesnt really work. (Which could be 'solved' by adding a bigger stab but that would also make the foil more powerful/direct again etc.etc.etc. there's a lot of choices made in the designing process of a foil and its always a compromise)

Do you want a more stable platform ("passive stability"), but with a more direct powerdelivery go for the 900 or 1000, if you want a little less stability but a softer powerdelivery ("dynamic stability") go for the 1100.

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SA_AL said..



Hi Mario,
This is now very confusing having so many ideas for starting hydrofoiling. I am at 62 and making good progress with Slingshot infinity 84 and 99. Although these are significantly bigger wings, they are also markedly slower that you want during your learning phase. I found the i99 very stable for learning and getting the confidence that you trust your foiling skills. I have not tried NP glide but that seems to me an alternative option for your board. It is cheaper than other options. Having carbon does not make a significant difference for beginner other than carrying the whole set-up is easier for carbon foil set-up. If you decide to get NP glide, let us know if it is as easy as NP team indicates in the link video

Hi SA_AL

I have tried the NP Glide when i first tried foiling so i could not give much feedback because it was my first time and only went for about 1 hour.
What i noticed was that after 3 or 4 runs i was flying but due to the lack of experience i was coming up and down and having no stable flights

Cheers

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mmilhazes said..

AlexF said..
Hi Mario,
Greetings to Viana, are you one of the sailors in the Mino?
If yes I'd advice for a flatwater oriented foil, e. g. The Starboard GT.

What I (51 y old fart, 90kg) use at the flat days in Viana in summer on the ocean is an Aeromod foil with the LW wing. With this foil you also buy local, made in Europe, it's designed and build about 1000 km away from you near Toulouse, the wing profiles design helped by the Airbus engineers located there (But the Aeromod guys are to shy to mention that in their marketing).
You feel it when you ride it, there's no try an error in this foil like in many others. Plug and play.

Full carbon incl. the fuselage , highest quality and much lighter than e. g. Starboard.
Many brands like e. g. SB or Moses don't do carbon fuselages because that's the trickiest part and they don't mastered it yet, and try to tell us "alu is better".
It's a Freeride foil, easy to ride, fast and made my learning and schlepping much easier.
And it has an very reasonable price for a full carbon foil.
Alex

Btw. I also own a Moses Tortuga 873 Supfoil. I also use this foil for windfoiling in waves in Viana, but I don't think you asked for that.

Hi Alex

Thanks for your reply and help, going to look into the aeromd also.
What do you mean by "are you one of the sailors in the Mino"?

I windsurf in Viana, for now i only do slalom inside and outside the harbour. I have POR 100 on my sails and use Severne and Starboard, for sure we have meet on the water :)

Cheers

Sorry, I'd have said Rio Minho, I always see a lot of slalom sailors sailing there.
I usually sail in front ot the Orbitur, but come up in the river if there are flat water foil days.
But usually it's 20+ if it's windy in summer, and if there are waves I'm on my wave stuff.

Alex

Mario, my recommendation would be to go for the Starboard Freeride over the Starboard GT. The Freeride will allow you to foil in slightly less wind and offer a tad more stability. I have used both and both are great easy to use and learn on options, and based on our current needs the Freeride looks to be the slightly better choice. While the 75cm mast is fine, ask your shop if they can upgrade you to the 85 or even 95cm alloy mast. Not the end of the world if they can't.

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IWB said..
Mario, my recommendation would be to go for the Starboard Freeride over the Starboard GT. The Freeride will allow you to foil in slightly less wind and offer a tad more stability. I have used both and both are great easy to use and learn on options, and based on our current needs the Freeride looks to be the slightly better choice. While the 75cm mast is fine, ask your shop if they can upgrade you to the 85 or even 95cm alloy mast. Not the end of the world if they can't.

Hi IWB

Thanks for the reply and help.
I think you are on spot, i think the freeride foil is the one for me as i dont want to race or go fast, just want to cruise on the days below 15 knots

Cheers