Select to expand quoteterminal said..
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That looks dangerous! A brick wall to smack your head into and a mast base to impale yourself on when you fall. Ouch!
Select to expand quoteWaiting4wind said..terminal said..
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That looks dangerous! A brick wall to smack your head into and a mast base to impale yourself on when you fall. Ouch!
But he has the yellow dangles to grab onto.
Don't you have yellow dangles when you're sailing?
Fair enough he does portray it as an extreme sport with bottles of water and buckets swinging everywhere, but the music is soothing.
Not sure that images of people doing radical moves of waves is the way to go. Do we remember the thrill that came with the first session when we went from slogging to on the plane? For most people that is it and if we can convey that buzz then it is half way there. Keeping people in the sport when it is so water and weather dependent is probably the next issue as people 'forget' the gear in the shed. Interactive forums like Seabreeze are an important element of doing just that. Reality is that for most people WS is part of the mix of sports, but I like to think we get fit to WS!
A big potential market for windsurfing growth are former windsurfers. Often threads come up here from people getting back into it. Promote fun and ease of use just like the article did. These people were once in their 20s. Now they are in their 40s and 50s. Sometimes they have the cash and time too.
Also speed is a great way to promote windsurfing. Recently I posted a utube video of fast windsurfing. It had a great reaction from non windsurfing friends. Speed is something most people can relate to. Plus the first time you are planing at 20 knots you feel like you are doing 100 kms an hour.
^^^ I agree with both of you guys above - I think we need to do both.
We need to promote the radical, yes maybe it killed things before but people going for a new watersport are going for kiting due to th 'old' image windsurfing still has. Just look at te p!sstakes here. It is amazing how many people still think it is dacron sails and 10kn and those pics still prevail in the media like we saw in the other thread. Appealing to the be proud of yourself do something harder and more physical?
Then for the returning people, they need to know it is easier and te gear is so much better than before. I looked at gear some kiters mates had that was in use by them only 5yrs ago and the gear is about 10 - 15 yrs old. I forgot just how bad it was... it does not have to be waaayy back in the 90's to be hard to use. A lot of those guys left cos they had half a season not planing and they saw kiters buzzing around easily- but that was when using needlenose wave boards 10L less than their weight etc. (To be hardcore u had to use the smallest board). If you got them on a newschool board 10-15L above their weight they'd realise they can plane up just as easy as kiter in 15-18kn.
It took me 20yrs to figure out board for the lulls and sail size for the gusts, enjoying it more than ever. Lots of guys left just cos kiting looked like more time on water and it ain't
Slightly off topic but I have though it would be good if at PWA slalom event's the competitors all wear go pros so the viewer/spectator can feel like they are in amongst the on water action. Not sure it is warranted for freestyle or wave as they are visually dynamic anyway.
Like they do on the America cup boats and F1.
If they could sort out some image stabilization or steadi cam type mount that would make viewing more pleasant.
This could add another dimension to the sport and if young people see fast close paced racing they might be tempted to get into it. If not I am sure the old racers would enjoy it 
I doubt the PWA has the budget to do this though and all the editing it would take.
Col' is on to something.
Slalom sailing probably appears accessable or attainable to an outsider.
Also, a slalom sail is a thing of awe in function and appearance. Surely attractive to sailors who tried windsurfing back in day.
I was a refugee from the 'sport' of Sailing.
Yacht clubs would be full of slow learners who (parents) found the sport during '87 Americas Cup and are only now figuring its a lame waste of time. You know, 'be there at 11am to scrub my bottom' (kiter appeal), 'be sure to wear white' (cricket and tennis figured the inhumanity of that), 'hats off in the bar', picture of her maj' overlooking the bar (offensive to Fennians), fixed racecourses that vaguely relate to wind direction creating a two hour game of 'follow my leader', lame technology that is either ancient or stupidly expensive, a culture of tossers and substance abuse, look at me, look at me... I'm only just warming up.
Forget targeting kiters. Kiting has its own momentum at the mo and will run its course, for the benefit of windsurfing.
Greatest opportunity exists in targeting the weakest alternative.
The last innovation in sailing (since squid rings to accompany after race beers), were 49ers. Suffering now from the Olympic curse and going no where.
Compare a slalom sail to a skiff/49er/tornado rig. A triumph of form and function.
Windsurfing V yachting. What seals the deal for me is flexibility, work life balance, whatever you want call it. Sailing is like a sentence, be there .....for eight hours, regardless of conditions or workload. Big commitment, big dollars, big disappointment.
It was really good to see some guys take on the three of a kind regatta (cock of the swan?) last summer.
Three of a Kind, Cock of The Swan, HMAS Perth Memorial Regatta are all clockwork opportunities to showcase what's on offer.
Select to expand quotecol5555 said..
Slightly off topic but I have though it would be good if at PWA slalom event's the competitors all wear go pros so the viewer/spectator can feel like they are in amongst the on water action. Not sure it is warranted for freestyle or wave as they are visually dynamic anyway.
Like they do on the America cup boats and F1.
If they could sort out some image stabilization or steadi cam type mount that would make viewing more pleasant.
This could add another dimension to the sport and if young people see fast close paced racing they might be tempted to get into it. If not I am sure the old racers would enjoy it
I doubt the PWA has the budget to do this though and all the editing it would take.
This would certainly add an extra dimension to Racing - which is exciting but the video coverage is quite often pretty flat - obviously due to budget constraints
Mounting on board cams on a yacht / boat is pretty easy - windsurfers a lot tricker due to more dynamic movement. I honestly cant think of an angle that would work - maybe a helmet mount? or a high mast mount facindg down and forward at 45 degrees ?
whereas on an F1 car that steady above the driver shot always looks fantastic
for sure there would be technical issues with live signals and live switching- i would love to see it - but with the money in Windsurfing right now i just cant see it happening.
I am just happy that there is something really cool i can do that i dont have to deal with mega crowds - like Surfing and to a lesser extent kitesurfing clogged beachies.
Look what happened to Surfing - explosive growth -but the only real benefits went to Boardshort manufacturers and Pro Surfers. And maybe a few extra humans who got to experience the coolness of Surfing
Does it really matter that Windsurfing isnt as massive as it was in the 80s? If potential up takers of the sport cant deal with the learning curve or see the potential coolness of the sport - then do they deserve it ? Or should they simply be otherwise rewarded with that cool but shallow feeling of reward that comes from finishing Portal on a game console...
Like KP once said - Windsurfing isnt dead - its just sleeping.
If only you could duck dive a poleboard under a wave. ^^^
What a great marketing image that would make.
[It's odd that she's not wearing a leggie.]
Maybe it's no wonder fewer people are windsurfing, because sometimes we come across as well and truly up ourselves.
Sorry to be so rude, but look at this thread. So far it's been said that people don't windsurf because they are scared of the commitment it requires, then boat sailors have been accused of being stupid because their sport needs too much commitment....hey, let's insult people from BOTH sides!
We've slagged off kids, SUPpers, kiters, in-line skaters, boogie boarders and boat sailors. And then we wonder why they are not interested in joining a bunch of people who sling shyte them....
Perhaps if we could actually respect other people who do other sports (and, horror of horrors, actually respect those who do other types of windsurfing) then we could actually learn how to appeal to them?
To take a couple of examples - even if kids are more into instant gratification these days (I've got four and I don't think any of them take quick-and-easy alternatives) then maybe it's because they are given more homework, spend more time at school, more time in structured sport and music lessons etc and therefore simply haven't got time to spend developing skills?
It may make us feel good to slag off kids, but is it fair to them and is it going to help grow windsurfing? By the way, earlier generations watched a lot of TV which is probably more "instant gratification" than gaming.
And surely the fact that there are new sports has to have had an effect. Why can't people try more sports? If they do try more sports obviously they have less time for each one - but is that a bad thing?
Maybe windsurfing marketing could be enormously improved by just doing one thing - respecting those who we are trying to sell the sport to, whether they want to sail Jaws, do flakas, GPS sailing or drifting around a lake.
PS - Issa you seem to be assuming that all sailing clubs are like a few Swan River ones. Lots of them are very down to earth. And in many places you burn less time going boat sailing than shortboarding.
Dunno why a slalom sail is better than a 49er or Tornado sail. The slalom sail has a MUCH smaller range of efficient angles and wind strengths; it won't last long on a boat where it has to contact rigging; and it sits on a mast that you can't adjust for your weight, sailing conditions, style etc like you can with a Tornado or 49er. And, unlike a Tornado sail, it's not custom built to exactly how you want it to be.
It's a minor point in a way, but it's just another example of windsurfing slagging off another sport instead of respecting it, and surely that turns people off.
Chris, you are right.
It seems I have fallen for an evangelists habit of speaking in generalisations. Not all sailing clubs are all bad. Not all yachties are slow learners, although it did take me 29 years to see the light.
My apologies, I was drinking and writing again 
. A nasty habit I acquired as a sailor.
I have yet to see any windsurf marketing that bags other sports.
My quality of life is improved dramatically, by an ability to leave the confines of work and be on the water blasting, at very short notice. A narrative I have not seen in any promotional material.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
^^^ I agree with both of you guys above - I think we need to do both.
We need to promote the radical, yes maybe it killed things before but people going for a new watersport are going for kiting due to th 'old' image windsurfing still has. Just look at te p!sstakes here. It is amazing how many people still think it is dacron sails and 10kn and those pics still prevail in the media like we saw in the other thread. Appealing to the be proud of yourself do something harder and more physical?
Then for the returning people, they need to know it is easier and te gear is so much better than before. I looked at gear some kiters mates had that was in use by them only 5yrs ago and the gear is about 10 - 15 yrs old. I forgot just how bad it was... it does not have to be waaayy back in the 90's to be hard to use. A lot of those guys left cos they had half a season not planing and they saw kiters buzzing around easily- but that was when using needlenose wave boards 10L less than their weight etc. (To be hardcore u had to use the smallest board). If you got them on a newschool board 10-15L above their weight they'd realise they can plane up just as easy as kiter in 15-18kn.
It took me 20yrs to figure out board for the lulls and sail size for the gusts, enjoying it more than ever. Lots of guys left just cos kiting looked like more time on water and it ain't
Seems two main markets... 1. returning people (and existing sailing types), who could easily take up freeride and also move to get into slalom and speed, bump and jump, or just stay freeride - its all fun; and other market is 2. young ones..... who could be enticed with wave sailing and freestyle.
What drew me to the sport was watching wave sailers doing big airs at my local break..... 20 years on when I took it up, that was what I had in mind to learn. It was the more radical stuff....
Interesting that you never see any windsurfing or kite surfing stuff in sports mags.... I just think that the manufacturers have plenty of scope to increase their market..... I think its important, not just because I'm frustrated from the lack of windsurfing lately, but for the future of the sport.... doesn't need to be super popular... but they could make it reasonably popular.....
Select to expand quoteK Dog said..
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Seems two main markets... 1. returning people, who could easily take up freeride and also move to get into slalom and speed, bump and jump, or just stay freeride - its all fun; and other market is 2. young ones..... who could be enticed with wave sailing and freestyle.
That is exactly the right way to look at it. See who would want to consume the product then see what they need to push them over the edge into actually purchasing.
The other thing is to deal with the actual problems they will encounter. I know what the problems are. I don't know how you're going to deal with them.
Weather sports are inherently a numbers game. The more you do it the more success you have. If you don't adopt it as a lifestyle then you have no chance of putting in the hours and no chance of getting beyond the beginner stage. That is very discouraging to newbies and the general public who just want to have fun.
Windsurfing is hard to be good at. No matter how good the gear gets it still remains a fact, 80% of windsurfers cannot reliably do a planing gybe or do a decent jump.
The gear is huge. Modern gear is lighter but it is still huge. You're all driving around in vans and towing trailers. You still need two boards and 3 sails to cover the range of winds you will encounter. Most kids are happiest with a skateboard tucked under their arm. Sailing deals with it by providing yacht clubs and kids regattas and coaching and the whole family participation thing.
I think we have moved past marketing anything with just images The internet has to be windsurfings best friend. No longer is the sport defined by a few stock images that you might find on birthday cards or text books. This is a medium with a million images and millions of words updating everyday. Interact, log on, global, local, whatever, it's all there being directed by the participants. Sure there is a fair bit of anarchy and the medium seems to breed a little more panic and madness that traditional forms of communication but its just so vibrant. So put on your rose coloured glasses and log in.
I'm someone who has come back to the sport after a hiatus of over 15 years. I started with a second hand raceboard and am now progressing to some free race blasting. What attracted me back?
- I love the thrill of planning at speed,
- The challenge of relearning or learning the skills
- Experincing the natural world at its best and
- Sharing the experience with like minded people
It doesn't matter what level or section of the sport you are interested in, I believe these are common threads for most windsurfers. Tailor marketing round these common threads.
This however is only one part of the equation. Participation in the sport will only increase if you increase the accessibility of the sport. This can be achieved by
- Reducing the cost of entry and participation
- widening learning opportunities
- encouragement for newbies from old hands at the bay / beach / lake and on forum's like seabreeze
- fathers teaching sons and daughters
Sorry low concentration span
cant read previous stuff, apologies in advance if already sed, so here my 2c.
Until Wsurfing gets Middle age is cool, cashed up, and forgets the youth/young obsession (youth and young grow to be cashed up middleagers!!, The Middleage is a massive market, but in some imbeciles head, just not cool sumhow! Middleage is best time of life, ya either get this, or ya dont, enuff from me, dont wanna get sucked into windsurf admin or promo again
I think its simply getting people on the water and having some fun.
There's plenty of demo days where the marketing is aimed at people already in the sport, perhaps there could be more emphasis on introducing people to the sport in a similar way.
Set up a 1/2 a dozen beginner boards and have some free basic instruction/come n try days. But it needs to be a regular thing, a lot of people will give it a go once they've seen it happening a few times.
I think the biggest influence on people taking up windsurfing back in the 80's etc was the fact that you could go down the beach and hire a windsurfer right on the beach. The days of the beach hire windsurfer and catamaran places seem to have disappeared I guess due to insurance and qualification requirements which weren't a consideration in the past.
I don't really buy into the cost putting people off. Look at other sports/activities which have all got more expensive with the advances in gear... Mountain bikes, SCUBA gear etc they're still doing fine. Lets face it when the new xbox comes out people will pay close to a grand for the console and a game or two and then continue to pay every time they want another game.
Its all about getting people to give it a go and just having fun.
I do agree in regard to getting more current images used in the press articles. I don't necessarily mean high end equipment and technical sailing, just more modern images.
There's a picture that I can think of (may be a JP marketing pic?) which shows some young kids on a beginner board with one kid sailing and a couple of others jumping off the board having a ball. I think that's the sort of picture which sells windsurfing to a wide market. Its shows modern wide easy to sail gear, its shows fun and exciting times at the beach and it shows the kids can do it, which a lot of people would interpret as 'if they can do, I can do it'.
This is just my views of course, which may be influenced by the fact that I started windsurfing at a beach hire place back in the 80's (which I then worked at as a teenager) and I am now a windsurfing instructor amongst other things.
I find it very encouraging to hear so many varying ideas and interest in the promotion of windsurfing.
I'm loving the discussion but I'm really keen to see images that capture what you think is the essence of windsurfing.
What images would you choose to market windsurfing to grow the sport?
Yeah I've searched a bit and couldn't find it again either. There's one along the same line on the Goya website but its no where near as good as the one I thinking of. Maybe you'll have to organize a re-enactment at one of the grommet days next summer, I'm sure there'd be plenty of volunteers.
Select to expand quotecol5555 said..
Slightly off topic but I have though it would be good if at PWA slalom event's the competitors all wear go pros so the viewer/spectator can feel like they are in amongst the on water action. Not sure it is warranted for freestyle or wave as they are visually dynamic anyway.
Like they do on the America cup boats and F1.
If they could sort out some image stabilization or steadi cam type mount that would make viewing more pleasant.
This could add another dimension to the sport and if young people see fast close paced racing they might be tempted to get into it. If not I am sure the old racers would enjoy it
I doubt the PWA has the budget to do this though and all the editing it would take.
I'd agree with this -> however, you dont need a "steady-cam"... given say a GoPro Black will do 1440 at 30FPS, aka for want of a better description "overscan" -> you just postprocess the image to remove the shake.
The only real issue with the GoPro, is the less-than-stellar lens... (the RageCams lenses look interesting...)Select to expand quoteReflex Films said..
This would certainly add an extra dimension to Racing - which is exciting but the video coverage is quite often pretty flat - obviously due to budget constraints
Mounting on board cams on a yacht / boat is pretty easy - windsurfers a lot tricker due to more dynamic movement. I honestly cant think of an angle that would work - maybe a helmet mount? or a high mast mount facindg down and forward at 45 degrees ?
whereas on an F1 car that steady above the driver shot always looks fantastic
for sure there would be technical issues with live signals and live switching- i would love to see it - but with the money in Windsurfing right now i just cant see it happening.
... just allow the sailors to put it wherever they want, but just make it mandatory to have a camera...compared to the cost of the gear/flights/beer having a camera would appear to be a cheap accessory.
And it might even be possible to transmit live pictures using the WiFi....
?w=500&h=375
This topic comes up every few months on here and everyone says what needs to be done to make windsurfing popular again.
But no one does anything about it except for telling everyone else what needs to be done??
If you want to polish a turd, someone has to get their hands dirty.
Time to man-up turd polishers and put words into action before windsurfing is only seen on old VHS videos that no one has a machine to watch. The local breaks around here its already all but extinct.
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..
This topic comes up every few months on here and everyone says what needs to be done to make windsurfing popular again.
But no one does anything about it except for telling everyone else what needs to be done??
If you want to polish a turd, someone has to get their hands dirty.
Time to man-up turd polishers and put words into action before windsurfing is only seen on old VHS videos that no one has a machine to watch. The local breaks around here its already all but extinct.
Not extinct
Just dormant
Select to expand quoteMuzza12 said..
For women who think they're too busy...
Crap! I go sailboarding to avoid housework!
Select to expand quoteMuzza12 said..
For women who think they're too busy...
Select to expand quotewaveslave said..
If only you could duck dive a poleboard under a wave. ^^^
What a great marketing image that would make.
[It's odd that she's not wearing a leggie.]
And this is why women don't take up windsurfing, because it always comes down to the crap images of women....I rest my case!!!
Get into the real world guys!!
