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Interesting Sail

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Created by choco > 9 months ago, 16 Oct 2011
choco
SA, 4032 posts
16 Oct 2011 11:47AM
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Haircut
QLD, 6481 posts
16 Oct 2011 12:27PM
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very cool looking!

da vecta
QLD, 2512 posts
16 Oct 2011 12:50PM
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Go Anders! Could it be a speed sail for ocean sailing?

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
16 Oct 2011 1:48PM
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Man I wouldn't want to have to waterstart THAT luff sleeve

choco
SA, 4032 posts
16 Oct 2011 4:37PM
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nebbian said...

Man I wouldn't want to have to waterstart THAT luff sleeve


I think you inflate the luff

Wet Willy
TAS, 2316 posts
17 Oct 2011 1:53PM
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Um, why is there no window? What's he gonna do, close his eyes and use the Force?

gregc
VIC, 1298 posts
17 Oct 2011 2:33PM
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I read a while ago that the top racing yachts will be using an inflatable mast in the next few years, that would be a cool innovation in sailboarding if it transferred across, an inflatable luff that became the mast imagine the space that would save.

Wet Willy
TAS, 2316 posts
17 Oct 2011 4:11PM
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gregc said...

I read a while ago that the top racing yachts will be using an inflatable mast in the next few years, that would be a cool innovation in sailboarding if it transferred across, an inflatable luff that became the mast imagine the space that would save.


It's not crazy...there's an inflatable SUP board, made from the stuff they make Zodiac dinghies from, apparently it's rigid enough...be interesting to see this applied to masts.

Paul Kelf
WA, 678 posts
17 Oct 2011 1:18PM
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Wet Willy said...

Um, why is there no window? What's he gonna do, close his eyes and use the Force?


When speed sailing you usually don't gybe so no need for a window.
You could also assume that everyone is behind you
Lastly, most speed sailors have their eyes shut any way

CJW
NSW, 1718 posts
17 Oct 2011 7:10PM
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gregc said...

I read a while ago that the top racing yachts will be using an inflatable mast in the next few years, that would be a cool innovation in sailboarding if it transferred across, an inflatable luff that became the mast imagine the space that would save.


I'm assuming only as an additional wing or foil section to the mast for more efficiency, not as the actual mast? There is no way in the world you could use anything inflatable for the mast on a racing yacht, the vertical loads at the mast base are off the richter; read 10's of tonnes. Convert that to pressure work out what sort of pressures you'd require to keep the thing from collapsing on itself, let alone stay stiff sideways....yeah not going to happen.

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
17 Oct 2011 7:49PM
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^^^ This is begging for a kiter to troll re; natural progression from sail/mast to 'inflatable luff'-style sail with no mast - just add strings...

...or are you guys just taking the p!ss, and encouraging a troll from the other side?

gregc
VIC, 1298 posts
17 Oct 2011 9:08PM
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nah apparently the blokes in white coats have run the slide rule over it and they are saying that is the next big thing, I would assume that it will also require a redesign of the actual sail. Like I said it was something that I read a while ago in one of those flash yachting magazines. The cost of a mast for one of those things must be ridiculous so I would assume that they would be keen to find a cheaper alternative.

DrJ
ACT, 481 posts
17 Oct 2011 10:01PM
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I googled " inflatable yacht masts" ....... Nothing

Think you dreamt that

Actually I say nothing ,but google search does reveal one crazy thread entry by some gregc on a forum called seabreeze .... So must be true!

gregc
VIC, 1298 posts
18 Oct 2011 2:17PM
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Thank you Dr J still most would have thought that the winged keel wouldn't work, the canting keel Oh and the kite spinnaker that is used on most offshore racing yachts now.

But still if it aint on google it must not be true. We will still be chatting about this in 10 years whilst on the deck of my inflatable yacht with canting keel, ion drive and invisible sail with holes in it.

barn
WA, 2960 posts
18 Oct 2011 12:10PM
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Well this looks like a simple challenge to me.. I for one would be interested in the source of this Inflatable Future Mast.... I'm hoping it's for a Yacht sponsored by Viagra..

--------

Evolution has mastered the foil numerous times and they all have a common theme, a rigid supporting mast like appendage.. I would eat my hat if an inflatable sock could be built to replace my carbon mast..

I think the fact that this thing could fly is proof that masts are pretty much perfect..




And the existence of our Yacht sponsor will attest to the problems with inflatable masts, but in most animals evolution has a solution...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baculum

Walrus mast..


Raccoon mast..



I'll get my coat..

gregc
VIC, 1298 posts
18 Oct 2011 3:25PM
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I guess if we keep sail design exactly the same then it would be a no go (maybe) but still thinking with those INNOVATIONS in MANUFACTURING and MATERIALS (he he) that something may be possible. There are a number of Masts that are already inflatable used for telecommunications that have to withstand fairly high wind shear with some valuable equipment on them, also an inflatable wind turbine design (the bloke that designed the segway). Apparently inflatable battens are used on yachts (at the high end).

Barn maybe not replacing the carbon mast but maybe reducing the amount of mast you need after all some smart bugger may come up with a design that still uses some form of carbon rod but maybe its four little bits of carbon rather than one big round tube of it.

Wineman
NSW, 1412 posts
18 Oct 2011 3:45PM
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Inflatable *board SUP (from KA360 topic)

#!

(neat welfare contrib in Thai floods)

so....why not inflatable mast [}:)]

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
18 Oct 2011 4:13PM
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gregc said...

I read a while ago that the top racing yachts will be using an inflatable mast in the next few years, that would be a cool innovation in sailboarding if it transferred across, an inflatable luff that became the mast imagine the space that would save.


Yep. Saw it too. The April 2011 edition of Sailing.

choco
SA, 4032 posts
18 Oct 2011 4:17PM
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If they could design a bladder to fit behind the mast and inflate the actual luff sleeve to form a ridged leading edge it would eliminate the need for cams hold the power locked in and best thing is that it would float.
You would rig the sail normally then pump tight the luff pocket....

Wet Willy
TAS, 2316 posts
18 Oct 2011 5:13PM
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Time to think outside the box. Never mind designing an inflatable SDM mast to fit in your old sails; what would be needed is an entirely new "mastless" sail which incorporates a wide, rigid inflatable luff sleeve, (which someone hinted at earlier)...perhaps it would look a bit like the one in the photo at the top of this page, a super-wide luff sleeve. And it would be a honey to waterstart; totally unsinkable!

Rob11
240 posts
18 Oct 2011 3:32PM
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A shame that this thread got hijacked by d.......hs....

barn
WA, 2960 posts
18 Oct 2011 5:14PM
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Rob11 said...

A shame that this thread got hijacked by d.......hs....


Hijacked from what exactly? all I saw was a picture of 7m2 luff sleeve.. The luff sleeve was pointed out, acknowledged by all.. Then we started inflating everything...

What particular direction would you have wished this thread take??

d.......hs....


What?

Mark _australia
WA, 22377 posts
18 Oct 2011 5:21PM
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Barn - agreed

Rob - WTF?

AUS4
NSW, 1255 posts
18 Oct 2011 9:36PM
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choco said...

If they could design a bladder to fit behind the mast and inflate the actual luff sleeve to form a ridged leading edge it would eliminate the need for cams hold the power locked in and best thing is that it would float.
You would rig the sail normally then pump tight the luff pocket....




Gaastra did this in 1984.

elmo
WA, 8725 posts
18 Oct 2011 6:45PM
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Bladders are not the answer, the one in my wetsuit is forever leaking

da vecta
QLD, 2512 posts
18 Oct 2011 8:56PM
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AUS4 said...

choco said...

If they could design a bladder to fit behind the mast and inflate the actual luff sleeve to form a ridged leading edge it would eliminate the need for cams hold the power locked in and best thing is that it would float.
You would rig the sail normally then pump tight the luff pocket....




Gaastra did this in 1984.


You could fill it with helium!

jp747
1553 posts
18 Oct 2011 6:58PM
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didn't A.R.T. had insertable bladders before?? this is just a resurrection if indeed it had one

DrJ
ACT, 481 posts
18 Oct 2011 10:04PM
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If you could have an inflatable mast, surely everything could be inflatable..... Boom, fins , board?

You could get it all in one bag..... Sweeeeeeet

DunkO
NSW, 1143 posts
18 Oct 2011 10:37PM
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DrJ said...

If you could have an inflatable mast, surely everything could be inflatable..... Boom, fins , board......



Missus?.... it may be easier but not necessarily better.

CJW
NSW, 1718 posts
18 Oct 2011 10:42PM
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evlPanda said...
Yep. Saw it too. The April 2011 edition of Sailing.



Anyone got a copy they could scan and post up because I'm interested in just what they are talking about? I don't see how it's possible in any way shape or form; I'm talking about a rig fully supported by an inflatable mast.

Creating a small inflatable wind turbine (it's a one of those turbines that rotates about a vertical axis), or an antenna mast that has to support ~50kg is one thing but consider this:

Alfa Romeo, the Maxi that has won the Sydney - Hobart numerous times can carry ~1300m^2 of sail down wind. In 20kts that is an absolute ****load of force, there is no way in the world anything inflatable is going to go close to supporting that. Alfa weighs ~25 tonnes, a very large percentage of that is keel to support that amount of sail, consider the vertical loads at the mast base (anyone remember OneAustralia lolz).

I'm open to entirely eating my words if someone can provide more info in this article but sounds fanciful to me

Carantoc
WA, 6650 posts
18 Oct 2011 7:49PM
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CJW said...

evlPanda said...
Yep. Saw it too. The April 2011 edition of Sailing.



Anyone got a copy they could scan and post up because I'm interested in just what they are talking about? I don't see how it's possible in any way shape or form; I'm talking about a rig fully supported by an inflatable mast.

Creating a small inflatable wind turbine (it's a one of those turbines that rotates about a vertical axis), or an antenna mast that has to support ~50kg is one thing but consider this:

Alfa Romeo, the Maxi that has won the Sydney - Hobart numerous times can carry ~1300m^2 of sail down wind. In 20kts that is an absolute ****load of force, there is no way in the world anything inflatable is going to go close to supporting that. Alfa weighs ~25 tonnes, a very large percentage of that is keel to support that amount of sail, consider the vertical loads at the mast base (anyone remember OneAustralia lolz).

I'm open to entirely eating my words if someone can provide more info in this article but sounds fanciful to me


Perhaps the April edition was published on the 1st of April ??



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"Interesting Sail" started by choco