Select to expand quoteAUS 814 said..MatStirl said..cammd said..MatStirl said..cammd said..MatStirl said..
I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.
.
Are you serious, never heard of techno293 I assume. Over 440 youth at the worlds in Spain just last month
Its great you guys love your wallies but try and keep it real.
I like the Techno but how many in Australia?
Also cammed, heavy 7.8m2 don't make good beginner sails.
Unfortunately Australians haven't supported the one design windsurfers the Europeans and even kiwis have. We all seem preoccupied with the formula and now foil arms race. But if that's your gig that's fine.
Its not often beginners start on a 7.8m cammed race sail that I have seen. Check out the little ripper program happening in NSW and you will see smaller sails can be used to teach and start kids
The fact is to say windsurfing has had no popular beginner scene is incorrect. Techno293 is massive globally and has been steadily growing in Australia after concerted efforts by a number of dedicated volunteers with the support of Sailing Clubs and AS. A lot of effort by a lot of people over many years can not just be wiped away because someone on a forum doesn't actually know whats been happening around the country in the beginner/youth scene.
The question is, is the LT the best thing that has happened to windsurfing, my answer would be no, the best thing in the last 10 to 15 years has been the techno class, its been supplying a steady stream of new blood into the sport for all that time. The LT has so far been very successful at bringing back people to the sport and full respect to that but its no where near the size and spread of Techno293
While I like the Techno and am thinking about getting one until it gets the racing fleets the LT is getting the LT wins the prize - at least in Australia.
Great pics of the LT racing.
That last pic looks mega exciting
What was exciting it was the kids first states with 48 on start line, not all kids can be a gifted as you !
Select to expand quotewindsufering said..AUS 814 said..MatStirl said..cammd said..MatStirl said..cammd said..MatStirl said..
I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.
.
Are you serious, never heard of techno293 I assume. Over 440 youth at the worlds in Spain just last month
Its great you guys love your wallies but try and keep it real.
I like the Techno but how many in Australia?
Also cammed, heavy 7.8m2 don't make good beginner sails.
Unfortunately Australians haven't supported the one design windsurfers the Europeans and even kiwis have. We all seem preoccupied with the formula and now foil arms race. But if that's your gig that's fine.
Its not often beginners start on a 7.8m cammed race sail that I have seen. Check out the little ripper program happening in NSW and you will see smaller sails can be used to teach and start kids
The fact is to say windsurfing has had no popular beginner scene is incorrect. Techno293 is massive globally and has been steadily growing in Australia after concerted efforts by a number of dedicated volunteers with the support of Sailing Clubs and AS. A lot of effort by a lot of people over many years can not just be wiped away because someone on a forum doesn't actually know whats been happening around the country in the beginner/youth scene.
The question is, is the LT the best thing that has happened to windsurfing, my answer would be no, the best thing in the last 10 to 15 years has been the techno class, its been supplying a steady stream of new blood into the sport for all that time. The LT has so far been very successful at bringing back people to the sport and full respect to that but its no where near the size and spread of Techno293
While I like the Techno and am thinking about getting one until it gets the racing fleets the LT is getting the LT wins the prize - at least in Australia.
Great pics of the LT racing.
That last pic looks mega exciting
What was exciting it was the kids first states with 48 on start line, not all kids can be a gifted as you !
It seems to me the LT and foiling are both the best things to happen to our sport in a very long time. They complement each other, they don't compete at all. One has reinvigorated the sport at the grass roots and racing level and the other has us back on the map in the high performance arena. I'll let you guys sort out which is which.
As for raking the daggerboard upwind on the LT, no offense but I'm a little surprised you guys were not straight onto that. As your centre of effort moves back so should your centre of lateral resistance. My advice on raking your daggerboard, keep your speed up. If you are going to keep sailing max close hauled all the time then you might as well leave your daggerboard all the way down. Once you start raking your daggerboard you are into the speed/height balancing act that formula and foil racers play, speed to generate height, pull away again to build speed. I find it a very rewarding technique to try and master and it's difficult enough on formula gear but on the LT it might be even trickier as the speed difference between up and away is less. LT's easy to sail? maybe yes, maybe no.
I'am German and not being in a surf club for around 30 years of surfing - I got member last year. Best parking and entrance into our lake only for members..
In most cases only the old surfer (who started in big years of windsurfing) are part of the surf clubs in Germany - most surfers doesnt want to be part of a club. In german clubs racing means RB - not LT, not slalom, not foiling (in Foiling we are 2 years behind France).
Is LT the future of surfing - hell, no. This is a sentimental revival of old stuff, what we surfed >20 years ago. Is it perfect to get the "used to be windsurfers 20 years ago" again on the board - oh, yes - that's true. And will they race it - yeah, sure. But this reminiscence of the surfing in the eighties and has nothing to do with future or to get young people into our sport.
If we have a normal day on our lake this autum, it was 10-12 knots. The 20 surfer are standing, rare gliding (many don't like active gliding with pumping) and on the right side 5-6 foil-kiter are flying around them and on the left side I was windfoiling around them with 40 km/h.
Young people - who look on this game - will not start windsurfig. They will go for kitefoiling and they are right.
LT will not destroy Windsurfing - because it's irrevelant. This is for me a twitter bubble like discussion from "old men" about their sport - nothing should change. And it was best 20 years ago. Yes of course, the guys from 20 years ago will come back and yes, they are racing again.
But if you want the sport to survive, than you need to look on your competitors and the demand of the young genaration:
LT plus: no hard body board => inflated board, shorter, SUP-possibility, with straps, modern batten sail and foil option - all as a package.
Select to expand quotet36 said..
I'am German and not being in a surf club for around 30 years of surfing - I got member last year. Best parking and entrance into our lake only for members..
In most cases only the old surfer (who started in big years of windsurfing) are part of the surf clubs in Germany - most surfers doesnt want to be part of a club. In german clubs racing means RB - not LT, not slalom, not foiling (in Foiling we are 2 years behind France).
Is LT the future of surfing - hell, no. This is a sentimental revival of old stuff, what we surfed >20 years ago. Is it perfect to get the "used to be windsurfers 20 years ago" again on the board - oh, yes - that's true. And will they race it - yeah, sure. But this reminiscence of the surfing in the eighties and has nothing to do with future or to get young people into our sport.
If we have a normal day on our lake this autum, it was 10-12 knots. The 20 surfer are standing, rare gliding (many don't like active gliding with pumping) and on the right side 5-6 foil-kiter are flying around them and on the left side I was windfoiling around them with 40 km/h.
Young people - who look on this game - will not start windsurfig. They will go for kitefoiling and they are right.
LT will not destroy Windsurfing - because it's irrevelant. This is for me a twitter bubble like discussion from "old men" about their sport - nothing should change. And it was best 20 years ago. Yes of course, the guys from 20 years ago will come back and yes, they are racing again.
But if you want the sport to survive, than you need to look on your competitors and the demand of the young genaration:
LT plus: no hard body board => inflated board, shorter, SUP-possibility, with straps, modern batten sail and foil option - all as a package.
i take it there are no LT's on your lake and you've not sailed one either.
Select to expand quoteAUS 814 said..
Pretty certain he implied that there are no LTs in Germany.
that makes sense as his view has not been our local experience.
Select to expand quoteCluffy said..
It seems to me the LT and foiling are both the best things to happen to our sport in a very long time. They complement each other, they don't compete at all. One has reinvigorated the sport at the grass roots and racing level and the other has us back on the map in the high performance arena. I'll let you guys sort out which is which.
As for raking the daggerboard upwind on the LT, no offense but I'm a little surprised you guys were not straight onto that. As your centre of effort moves back so should your centre of lateral resistance. My advice on raking your daggerboard, keep your speed up. If you are going to keep sailing max close hauled all the time then you might as well leave your daggerboard all the way down. Once you start raking your daggerboard you are into the speed/height balancing act that formula and foil racers play, speed to generate height, pull away again to build speed. I find it a very rewarding technique to try and master and it's difficult enough on formula gear but on the LT it might be even trickier as the speed difference between up and away is less. LT's easy to sail? maybe yes, maybe no.
We've been "onto" raking the centreboard in longboards since about the first time the centreboard was invented. Boats have been onto it for eons.
The thing is that decades of experience have demonstrated that taking the board is quite a complex issue of trade offs, not something that has ever been ignored
Agree about foiling and the LT both being good for the sport.
Select to expand quotet36 said..
I'am German and not being in a surf club for around 30 years of surfing - I got member last year. Best parking and entrance into our lake only for members..
In most cases only the old surfer (who started in big years of windsurfing) are part of the surf clubs in Germany - most surfers doesnt want to be part of a club. In german clubs racing means RB - not LT, not slalom, not foiling (in Foiling we are 2 years behind France).
Is LT the future of surfing - hell, no. This is a sentimental revival of old stuff, what we surfed >20 years ago. Is it perfect to get the "used to be windsurfers 20 years ago" again on the board - oh, yes - that's true. And will they race it - yeah, sure. But this reminiscence of the surfing in the eighties and has nothing to do with future or to get young people into our sport.
If we have a normal day on our lake this autum, it was 10-12 knots. The 20 surfer are standing, rare gliding (many don't like active gliding with pumping) and on the right side 5-6 foil-kiter are flying around them and on the left side I was windfoiling around them with 40 km/h.
Young people - who look on this game - will not start windsurfig. They will go for kitefoiling and they are right.
LT will not destroy Windsurfing - because it's irrevelant. This is for me a twitter bubble like discussion from "old men" about their sport - nothing should change. And it was best 20 years ago. Yes of course, the guys from 20 years ago will come back and yes, they are racing again.
But if you want the sport to survive, than you need to look on your competitors and the demand of the young genaration:
LT plus: no hard body board => inflated board, shorter, SUP-possibility, with straps, modern batten sail and foil option - all as a package.
We are looking at our competition. We are looking at optimist dinghies, Lasers, sups and sot kayaks. All of them show that speed is largely irrelevant for most people. Your own example shows that- 20 times as many people sailing normal boards than foils
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
Song, it's very personal. I sailed IMCO for years (including being twice 2nd in the nationals after they were out of the Olympics) and was into Raceboards well before they had their very first world title (in which I was part of the national team), so I know and love them. They were amazing fun when they were used as they were intended, which is for a mainly reaching course with a 12-15 knot wind limit on open water.
A few thoughts;
1- the RB's mast and CB position, big fin and low foot mean that it tacks much more slowly. You cannot work the small shifts like you can in an LT, and to be honest I always found tacking a RB to be painfully slow and frustrating. Many of us love working those small shifts by zipping the LT around through tacks even if we go slower than a RB. Others prefer speed and that's great.
2- The fact that the LT is twitchier in stronger winds is lots of fun for many of us. It's a bit like driving a fast manual car instead of a fast automatic car, or perhaps like skiing moguls rather than a perfectly groomed and flat ski slope. We love the fact that you have to respond to each wind gust and each wave. Personally I love it when windsurfing becomes a boathandling challenge, and in the LT that happens in lighter winds than it does in a RB. A RB in 20 knots is a test of speed because the board handles so well, an LT in 20 knots is a test of speed and handling. Some people dislike that and it's fine.
3- The rig's power moves around, but the other side is that the rig is very light - the sail is just 2kg. Some of us don't like heavy rigs, especially in something we often sail in light breezes and especially when they spend so much time raked that you are often effectively stopping them from falling backwards. The LT's upright rig almost balances itself in light winds.
4- Yep, with footstraps you can lock yourself in and that's nice, but in the straps with the track back you tend to sail a narrower range of downwind angles and styles. The LT has a wider range of fast wind angles; depending on the gusts, the strength, the waves and the tactical situation you may be gybing through high angles like a RB, or you could be going deeper, surfing the little waves in a wave the RB cannot do. On the LT you are dancing up and down, like walking the plank on a long surfboard. You have the fascinating challenge of staying stuck on by using balance and feel rather than just sticking your feet in straps. Some of us really love that, although we also love the fantastic feeling of a RB howling with the track back.
5- Oddly enough, in really strong winds the LT now seems to be handling better than the RBs with their 9.5s!
6- We don't pump upwind, which is a lot more fun to some of us. We have more varied events - course racing, marathon, slalom and freestyle. And there are more LT fleets around.
7- LT is $2700, RB is about $12000?. One is going to stay the same, the other could be obsolete next year.
8- "Technical" yes, but that seems to mean that there's a bigger gap between fast and slow sailors in speed. Many slower sailors get a bit discouraged by the gap. The LT fleet is closer together and because they tack fast and we don't pump upwind, slower sailors can do especially well in light winds.
9- The LT doesn't carve quite as well as a RB but you can still throw one-handed duck gybes on them. The LT is much more fun for me in light wind gybes, mark roundings etc because it turns faster.
10- I still have an IMCO, 2 old custom Naish RBs including a proto of the original pre-concave Pan Am, and an Equipe II. I haven't sailed them for ages but must get them out one day. They are great boards for charging along in a straight line if it's breezy. That's what the class was designed for. Personally I find them frustrating when used for windward/leeward flat water racing in light winds. If you love them, that's great!
PS - the guy who got 2nd in my class at the Australian nationals was top 10 in the world in the Olympic IMCO rankings, and 2nd in the youth worlds on an IMCO. The junior world IMCO champ and masters RB world champ were in my div at the LT worlds, with IMCO Olympians in other divisions. Our former national IMCO champ is a top LT sailor. There's a lot of people who love them both.
Based on the majority of comments here it seems the Windsurfer LT (Latest Technology?) and foil (Future of Windsurfing?) has made the humble raceboard "obsolete".
If there are any LT sailors (or foilers) no longer using their old raceboards let me know as we can surely use them here in Brisbane.
The raceboard fleet here is growing and they handle the range of wind and wave conditions that we sail in very well.
Also, the raceboard nationals will be held at RQYS in Jan 2020 and there may be a few sailors looking for a raceboard to join the fun.
So if you have any "obsolete" Mistral, F2, Fanatic raceboards taking up room in your garage and need to make room for more LTs, don't throw them out, let me know
Select to expand quoteazuli said..Chris 249 said..
Song, it's very personal. I sailed IMCO for years (including being twice 2nd in the nationals after they were out of the Olympics) and was into Raceboards well before they had their very first world title (in which I was part of the national team), so I know and love them. They were amazing fun when they were used as they were intended, which is for a mainly reaching course with a 12-15 knot wind limit on open water.
A few thoughts;
1- the RB's mast and CB position, big fin and low foot mean that it tacks much more slowly. You cannot work the small shifts like you can in an LT, and to be honest I always found tacking a RB to be painfully slow and frustrating. Many of us love working those small shifts by zipping the LT around through tacks even if we go slower than a RB. Others prefer speed and that's great.
2- The fact that the LT is twitchier in stronger winds is lots of fun for many of us. It's a bit like driving a fast manual car instead of a fast automatic car, or perhaps like skiing moguls rather than a perfectly groomed and flat ski slope. We love the fact that you have to respond to each wind gust and each wave. Personally I love it when windsurfing becomes a boathandling challenge, and in the LT that happens in lighter winds than it does in a RB. A RB in 20 knots is a test of speed because the board handles so well, an LT in 20 knots is a test of speed and handling. Some people dislike that and it's fine.
3- The rig's power moves around, but the other side is that the rig is very light - the sail is just 2kg. Some of us don't like heavy rigs, especially in something we often sail in light breezes and especially when they spend so much time raked that you are often effectively stopping them from falling backwards. The LT's upright rig almost balances itself in light winds.
4- Yep, with footstraps you can lock yourself in and that's nice, but in the straps with the track back you tend to sail a narrower range of downwind angles and styles. The LT has a wider range of fast wind angles; depending on the gusts, the strength, the waves and the tactical situation you may be gybing through high angles like a RB, or you could be going deeper, surfing the little waves in a wave the RB cannot do. On the LT you are dancing up and down, like walking the plank on a long surfboard. You have the fascinating challenge of staying stuck on by using balance and feel rather than just sticking your feet in straps. Some of us really love that, although we also love the fantastic feeling of a RB howling with the track back.
5- Oddly enough, in really strong winds the LT now seems to be handling better than the RBs with their 9.5s!
6- We don't pump upwind, which is a lot more fun to some of us. We have more varied events - course racing, marathon, slalom and freestyle. And there are more LT fleets around.
7- LT is $2700, RB is about $12000?. One is going to stay the same, the other could be obsolete next year.
8- "Technical" yes, but that seems to mean that there's a bigger gap between fast and slow sailors in speed. Many slower sailors get a bit discouraged by the gap. The LT fleet is closer together and because they tack fast and we don't pump upwind, slower sailors can do especially well in light winds.
9- The LT doesn't carve quite as well as a RB but you can still throw one-handed duck gybes on them. The LT is much more fun for me in light wind gybes, mark roundings etc because it turns faster.
10- I still have an IMCO, 2 old custom Naish RBs including a proto of the original pre-concave Pan Am, and an Equipe II. I haven't sailed them for ages but must get them out one day. They are great boards for charging along in a straight line if it's breezy. That's what the class was designed for. Personally I find them frustrating when used for windward/leeward flat water racing in light winds. If you love them, that's great!
PS - the guy who got 2nd in my class at the Australian nationals was top 10 in the world in the Olympic IMCO rankings, and 2nd in the youth worlds on an IMCO. The junior world IMCO champ and masters RB world champ were in my div at the LT worlds, with IMCO Olympians in other divisions. Our former national IMCO champ is a top LT sailor. There's a lot of people who love them both.
Based on the majority of comments here it seems the Windsurfer LT (Latest Technology?) and foil (Future of Windsurfing?) has made the humble raceboard "obsolete".
If there are any LT sailors (or foilers) no longer using their old raceboards let me know as we can surely use them here in Brisbane.
The raceboard fleet here is growing and they handle the range of wind and wave conditions that we sail in very well.
Also, the raceboard nationals will be held at RQYS in Jan 2020 and there may be a few sailors looking for a raceboard to join the fun.
So if you have any "obsolete" Mistral, F2, Fanatic raceboards taking up room in your garage and need to make room for more LTs, don't throw them out, let me know
I don't think anyone has claimed RBs are obsolete. They are a significant and vital part of the sport imho, and great to sail in your conditions and others.
Select to expand quoteChris249 said..azuli said..Chris 249 said..
Song, it's very personal. I sailed IMCO for years (including being twice 2nd in the nationals after they were out of the Olympics) and was into Raceboards well before they had their very first world title (in which I was part of the national team), so I know and love them. They were amazing fun when they were used as they were intended, which is for a mainly reaching course with a 12-15 knot wind limit on open water.
A few thoughts;
1- the RB's mast and CB position, big fin and low foot mean that it tacks much more slowly. You cannot work the small shifts like you can in an LT, and to be honest I always found tacking a RB to be painfully slow and frustrating. Many of us love working those small shifts by zipping the LT around through tacks even if we go slower than a RB. Others prefer speed and that's great.
2- The fact that the LT is twitchier in stronger winds is lots of fun for many of us. It's a bit like driving a fast manual car instead of a fast automatic car, or perhaps like skiing moguls rather than a perfectly groomed and flat ski slope. We love the fact that you have to respond to each wind gust and each wave. Personally I love it when windsurfing becomes a boathandling challenge, and in the LT that happens in lighter winds than it does in a RB. A RB in 20 knots is a test of speed because the board handles so well, an LT in 20 knots is a test of speed and handling. Some people dislike that and it's fine.
3- The rig's power moves around, but the other side is that the rig is very light - the sail is just 2kg. Some of us don't like heavy rigs, especially in something we often sail in light breezes and especially when they spend so much time raked that you are often effectively stopping them from falling backwards. The LT's upright rig almost balances itself in light winds.
4- Yep, with footstraps you can lock yourself in and that's nice, but in the straps with the track back you tend to sail a narrower range of downwind angles and styles. The LT has a wider range of fast wind angles; depending on the gusts, the strength, the waves and the tactical situation you may be gybing through high angles like a RB, or you could be going deeper, surfing the little waves in a wave the RB cannot do. On the LT you are dancing up and down, like walking the plank on a long surfboard. You have the fascinating challenge of staying stuck on by using balance and feel rather than just sticking your feet in straps. Some of us really love that, although we also love the fantastic feeling of a RB howling with the track back.
5- Oddly enough, in really strong winds the LT now seems to be handling better than the RBs with their 9.5s!
6- We don't pump upwind, which is a lot more fun to some of us. We have more varied events - course racing, marathon, slalom and freestyle. And there are more LT fleets around.
7- LT is $2700, RB is about $12000?. One is going to stay the same, the other could be obsolete next year.
8- "Technical" yes, but that seems to mean that there's a bigger gap between fast and slow sailors in speed. Many slower sailors get a bit discouraged by the gap. The LT fleet is closer together and because they tack fast and we don't pump upwind, slower sailors can do especially well in light winds.
9- The LT doesn't carve quite as well as a RB but you can still throw one-handed duck gybes on them. The LT is much more fun for me in light wind gybes, mark roundings etc because it turns faster.
10- I still have an IMCO, 2 old custom Naish RBs including a proto of the original pre-concave Pan Am, and an Equipe II. I haven't sailed them for ages but must get them out one day. They are great boards for charging along in a straight line if it's breezy. That's what the class was designed for. Personally I find them frustrating when used for windward/leeward flat water racing in light winds. If you love them, that's great!
PS - the guy who got 2nd in my class at the Australian nationals was top 10 in the world in the Olympic IMCO rankings, and 2nd in the youth worlds on an IMCO. The junior world IMCO champ and masters RB world champ were in my div at the LT worlds, with IMCO Olympians in other divisions. Our former national IMCO champ is a top LT sailor. There's a lot of people who love them both.
Based on the majority of comments here it seems the Windsurfer LT (Latest Technology?) and foil (Future of Windsurfing?) has made the humble raceboard "obsolete".
If there are any LT sailors (or foilers) no longer using their old raceboards let me know as we can surely use them here in Brisbane.
The raceboard fleet here is growing and they handle the range of wind and wave conditions that we sail in very well.
Also, the raceboard nationals will be held at RQYS in Jan 2020 and there may be a few sailors looking for a raceboard to join the fun.
So if you have any "obsolete" Mistral, F2, Fanatic raceboards taking up room in your garage and need to make room for more LTs, don't throw them out, let me know
I don't think anyone has claimed RBs are obsolete. They are a significant and vital part of the sport imho, and great to sail in your conditions and others.
Refer to point 7 in your previous post
Select to expand quoteazuli said..Chris 249 said..
Song, it's very personal. I sailed IMCO for years (including being twice 2nd in the nationals after they were out of the Olympics) and was into Raceboards well before they had their very first world title (in which I was part of the national team), so I know and love them. They were amazing fun when they were used as they were intended, which is for a mainly reaching course with a 12-15 knot wind limit on open water.
A few thoughts;
1- the RB's mast and CB position, big fin and low foot mean that it tacks much more slowly. You cannot work the small shifts like you can in an LT, and to be honest I always found tacking a RB to be painfully slow and frustrating. Many of us love working those small shifts by zipping the LT around through tacks even if we go slower than a RB. Others prefer speed and that's great.
2- The fact that the LT is twitchier in stronger winds is lots of fun for many of us. It's a bit like driving a fast manual car instead of a fast automatic car, or perhaps like skiing moguls rather than a perfectly groomed and flat ski slope. We love the fact that you have to respond to each wind gust and each wave. Personally I love it when windsurfing becomes a boathandling challenge, and in the LT that happens in lighter winds than it does in a RB. A RB in 20 knots is a test of speed because the board handles so well, an LT in 20 knots is a test of speed and handling. Some people dislike that and it's fine.
3- The rig's power moves around, but the other side is that the rig is very light - the sail is just 2kg. Some of us don't like heavy rigs, especially in something we often sail in light breezes and especially when they spend so much time raked that you are often effectively stopping them from falling backwards. The LT's upright rig almost balances itself in light winds.
4- Yep, with footstraps you can lock yourself in and that's nice, but in the straps with the track back you tend to sail a narrower range of downwind angles and styles. The LT has a wider range of fast wind angles; depending on the gusts, the strength, the waves and the tactical situation you may be gybing through high angles like a RB, or you could be going deeper, surfing the little waves in a wave the RB cannot do. On the LT you are dancing up and down, like walking the plank on a long surfboard. You have the fascinating challenge of staying stuck on by using balance and feel rather than just sticking your feet in straps. Some of us really love that, although we also love the fantastic feeling of a RB howling with the track back.
5- Oddly enough, in really strong winds the LT now seems to be handling better than the RBs with their 9.5s!
6- We don't pump upwind, which is a lot more fun to some of us. We have more varied events - course racing, marathon, slalom and freestyle. And there are more LT fleets around.
7- LT is $2700, RB is about $12000?. One is going to stay the same, the other could be obsolete next year.
8- "Technical" yes, but that seems to mean that there's a bigger gap between fast and slow sailors in speed. Many slower sailors get a bit discouraged by the gap. The LT fleet is closer together and because they tack fast and we don't pump upwind, slower sailors can do especially well in light winds.
9- The LT doesn't carve quite as well as a RB but you can still throw one-handed duck gybes on them. The LT is much more fun for me in light wind gybes, mark roundings etc because it turns faster.
10- I still have an IMCO, 2 old custom Naish RBs including a proto of the original pre-concave Pan Am, and an Equipe II. I haven't sailed them for ages but must get them out one day. They are great boards for charging along in a straight line if it's breezy. That's what the class was designed for. Personally I find them frustrating when used for windward/leeward flat water racing in light winds. If you love them, that's great!
PS - the guy who got 2nd in my class at the Australian nationals was top 10 in the world in the Olympic IMCO rankings, and 2nd in the youth worlds on an IMCO. The junior world IMCO champ and masters RB world champ were in my div at the LT worlds, with IMCO Olympians in other divisions. Our former national IMCO champ is a top LT sailor. There's a lot of people who love them both.
Based on the majority of comments here it seems the Windsurfer LT (Latest Technology?) and foil (Future of Windsurfing?) has made the humble raceboard "obsolete".
If there are any LT sailors (or foilers) no longer using their old raceboards let me know as we can surely use them here in Brisbane.
The raceboard fleet here is growing and they handle the range of wind and wave conditions that we sail in very well.
Also, the raceboard nationals will be held at RQYS in Jan 2020 and there may be a few sailors looking for a raceboard to join the fun.
So if you have any "obsolete" Mistral, F2, Fanatic raceboards taking up room in your garage and need to make room for more LTs, don't throw them out, let me know
LOL nice hijack., maybe you should add a link to your nationals LOL
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.
Select to expand quotewindsufering said..azuli said..Chris 249 said..
Song, it's very personal. I sailed IMCO for years (including being twice 2nd in the nationals after they were out of the Olympics) and was into Raceboards well before they had their very first world title (in which I was part of the national team), so I know and love them. They were amazing fun when they were used as they were intended, which is for a mainly reaching course with a 12-15 knot wind limit on open water.
A few thoughts;
1- the RB's mast and CB position, big fin and low foot mean that it tacks much more slowly. You cannot work the small shifts like you can in an LT, and to be honest I always found tacking a RB to be painfully slow and frustrating. Many of us love working those small shifts by zipping the LT around through tacks even if we go slower than a RB. Others prefer speed and that's great.
2- The fact that the LT is twitchier in stronger winds is lots of fun for many of us. It's a bit like driving a fast manual car instead of a fast automatic car, or perhaps like skiing moguls rather than a perfectly groomed and flat ski slope. We love the fact that you have to respond to each wind gust and each wave. Personally I love it when windsurfing becomes a boathandling challenge, and in the LT that happens in lighter winds than it does in a RB. A RB in 20 knots is a test of speed because the board handles so well, an LT in 20 knots is a test of speed and handling. Some people dislike that and it's fine.
3- The rig's power moves around, but the other side is that the rig is very light - the sail is just 2kg. Some of us don't like heavy rigs, especially in something we often sail in light breezes and especially when they spend so much time raked that you are often effectively stopping them from falling backwards. The LT's upright rig almost balances itself in light winds.
4- Yep, with footstraps you can lock yourself in and that's nice, but in the straps with the track back you tend to sail a narrower range of downwind angles and styles. The LT has a wider range of fast wind angles; depending on the gusts, the strength, the waves and the tactical situation you may be gybing through high angles like a RB, or you could be going deeper, surfing the little waves in a wave the RB cannot do. On the LT you are dancing up and down, like walking the plank on a long surfboard. You have the fascinating challenge of staying stuck on by using balance and feel rather than just sticking your feet in straps. Some of us really love that, although we also love the fantastic feeling of a RB howling with the track back.
5- Oddly enough, in really strong winds the LT now seems to be handling better than the RBs with their 9.5s!
6- We don't pump upwind, which is a lot more fun to some of us. We have more varied events - course racing, marathon, slalom and freestyle. And there are more LT fleets around.
7- LT is $2700, RB is about $12000?. One is going to stay the same, the other could be obsolete next year.
8- "Technical" yes, but that seems to mean that there's a bigger gap between fast and slow sailors in speed. Many slower sailors get a bit discouraged by the gap. The LT fleet is closer together and because they tack fast and we don't pump upwind, slower sailors can do especially well in light winds.
9- The LT doesn't carve quite as well as a RB but you can still throw one-handed duck gybes on them. The LT is much more fun for me in light wind gybes, mark roundings etc because it turns faster.
10- I still have an IMCO, 2 old custom Naish RBs including a proto of the original pre-concave Pan Am, and an Equipe II. I haven't sailed them for ages but must get them out one day. They are great boards for charging along in a straight line if it's breezy. That's what the class was designed for. Personally I find them frustrating when used for windward/leeward flat water racing in light winds. If you love them, that's great!
PS - the guy who got 2nd in my class at the Australian nationals was top 10 in the world in the Olympic IMCO rankings, and 2nd in the youth worlds on an IMCO. The junior world IMCO champ and masters RB world champ were in my div at the LT worlds, with IMCO Olympians in other divisions. Our former national IMCO champ is a top LT sailor. There's a lot of people who love them both.
Based on the majority of comments here it seems the Windsurfer LT (Latest Technology?) and foil (Future of Windsurfing?) has made the humble raceboard "obsolete".
If there are any LT sailors (or foilers) no longer using their old raceboards let me know as we can surely use them here in Brisbane.
The raceboard fleet here is growing and they handle the range of wind and wave conditions that we sail in very well.
Also, the raceboard nationals will be held at RQYS in Jan 2020 and there may be a few sailors looking for a raceboard to join the fun.
So if you have any "obsolete" Mistral, F2, Fanatic raceboards taking up room in your garage and need to make room for more LTs, don't throw them out, let me know
LOL nice hijack., maybe you should add a link to your nationals LOL
Thats funny, you sooking someone has hijacked a thread, its hard to find a thread without a LT being the solution to whatever problem is being discussed.
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.
It may be fun but please it's not fast
Select to expand quoteAUS 814 said..RichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.
It may be fun but please it's not fast
Fast is a relative concept. It is faster than a Laser dinghy for example in good planing winds an LT will easily beat a Laser on a reach and can blast it upwind as long as it's not a day when it is really light and/or high pointing is vital. The Laser was actually designed for light winds in 1970 by Bruce Kirby so it is not surprising. Sailing an LT is physically demanding in my opinion and an excellent workout. AUS 814, you don't like the LT, so what, no one really cares, the sales of the LT demonstrate people are buying them at least as we are seeing in WA on relatively high rate and perhaps more so than other windsurfers of other types. I understand one board a day is being sold in NSW.
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers.
I thought RPYC had a group of techno sailors and an active coaching program for youth windsurfers
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..AUS 814 said..RichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.
It may be fun but please it's not fast
Fast is a relative concept. It is faster than a Laser dinghy for example in good planing winds an LT will easily beat a Laser on a reach and can blast it upwind as long as it's not a day when it is really light and/or high pointing is vital. The Laser was actually designed for light winds in 1970 by Bruce Kirby so it is not surprising. Sailing an LT is physically demanding in my opinion and an excellent workout. AUS 814, you don't like the LT, so what, no one really cares, the sales of the LT demonstrate people are buying them more so than other windsurfers of other types.
I do like it, I have one myself, but its not fast
Select to expand quotecammd said..RichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers.
I thought RPYC had a group of techno sailors and an active coaching program for youth windsurfers
I did not address Techno but yes there are several Techno at RPYC and one or two at MBSC. Techno is a youth board and the LT is more of broader appeal to sailors older and younger not just youth. The LT fleet in WA is now much bigger than Techno. When I refer to raceboard I don't mean Techno or LT, both of which are racing boards, in any event. RPYC is buying LTs for its club programme and so is SPYC and MBSC.
Select to expand quoteAUS 814 said..RichardG said..AUS 814 said..RichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.
It may be fun but please it's not fast
Fast is a relative concept. It is faster than a Laser dinghy for example in good planing winds an LT will easily beat a Laser on a reach and can blast it upwind as long as it's not a day when it is really light and/or high pointing is vital. The Laser was actually designed for light winds in 1970 by Bruce Kirby so it is not surprising. Sailing an LT is physically demanding in my opinion and an excellent workout. AUS 814, you don't like the LT, so what, no one really cares, the sales of the LT demonstrate people are buying them more so than other windsurfers of other types.
I do like it, I have one myself, but its not fast
Fast is fine but if you can't race against substantial fleets in first class organised racing then you can lose your zest to sail in my opinion. Fast is always relative to what is on the water. I think the LT is fast enough to race. A kitefoiler is much faster than many windsurfers including the boards that you sail. Does that make those windsurfers slow ?
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.
It is great to see longboard racing return to Perth. If I was still living there I would probably join in the fun on the river too (when I wasn't wave sailing).
Just wondering...if you were racing a marathon from Rottnest Island to Fremantle in the afternoon when the Doctor was in, would you choose to ride your Mistral Equipe or your LT?
Select to expand quoteazuli said..RichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.
It is great to see longboard racing return to Perth. If I was still living there I would probably join in the fun on the river too (when I wasn't wave sailing).
Just wondering...if you were racing a marathon from Rottnest Island to Fremantle in the afternoon when the Doctor was in, would you choose to ride your Mistral Equipe or your LT?
Mistral Equipe for sure as footstraps would make the sailing much easier. Such a race no longer exists however and the example you give is of an extreme race of 33 km each way.
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..azuli said..RichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.
It is great to see longboard racing return to Perth. If I was still living there I would probably join in the fun on the river too (when I wasn't wave sailing).
Just wondering...if you were racing a marathon from Rottnest Island to Fremantle in the afternoon when the Doctor was in, would you choose to ride your Mistral Equipe or your LT?
Mistral Equipe for sure. Such a race no longer exists however.
Hang on I thought you would choose the LT as its fast
Select to expand quoteAUS 814 said..RichardG said..azuli said..RichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.
It is great to see longboard racing return to Perth. If I was still living there I would probably join in the fun on the river too (when I wasn't wave sailing).
Just wondering...if you were racing a marathon from Rottnest Island to Fremantle in the afternoon when the Doctor was in, would you choose to ride your Mistral Equipe or your LT?
Mistral Equipe for sure. Such a race no longer exists however.
Hang on I thought you would choose the LT as its fast
Its fast enough to race.
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..AUS 814 said..RichardG said..azuli said..RichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.
It is great to see longboard racing return to Perth. If I was still living there I would probably join in the fun on the river too (when I wasn't wave sailing).
Just wondering...if you were racing a marathon from Rottnest Island to Fremantle in the afternoon when the Doctor was in, would you choose to ride your Mistral Equipe or your LT?
Mistral Equipe for sure. Such a race no longer exists however.
Hang on I thought you would choose the LT as its fast
Its fast enough to race.
Thats right , speed is so relative
Select to expand quotecammd said..windsufering said..azuli said..Chris 249 said..
Song, it's very personal. I sailed IMCO for years (including being twice 2nd in the nationals after they were out of the Olympics) and was into Raceboards well before they had their very first world title (in which I was part of the national team), so I know and love them. They were amazing fun when they were used as they were intended, which is for a mainly reaching course with a 12-15 knot wind limit on open water.
A few thoughts;
1- the RB's mast and CB position, big fin and low foot mean that it tacks much more slowly. You cannot work the small shifts like you can in an LT, and to be honest I always found tacking a RB to be painfully slow and frustrating. Many of us love working those small shifts by zipping the LT around through tacks even if we go slower than a RB. Others prefer speed and that's great.
2- The fact that the LT is twitchier in stronger winds is lots of fun for many of us. It's a bit like driving a fast manual car instead of a fast automatic car, or perhaps like skiing moguls rather than a perfectly groomed and flat ski slope. We love the fact that you have to respond to each wind gust and each wave. Personally I love it when windsurfing becomes a boathandling challenge, and in the LT that happens in lighter winds than it does in a RB. A RB in 20 knots is a test of speed because the board handles so well, an LT in 20 knots is a test of speed and handling. Some people dislike that and it's fine.
3- The rig's power moves around, but the other side is that the rig is very light - the sail is just 2kg. Some of us don't like heavy rigs, especially in something we often sail in light breezes and especially when they spend so much time raked that you are often effectively stopping them from falling backwards. The LT's upright rig almost balances itself in light winds.
4- Yep, with footstraps you can lock yourself in and that's nice, but in the straps with the track back you tend to sail a narrower range of downwind angles and styles. The LT has a wider range of fast wind angles; depending on the gusts, the strength, the waves and the tactical situation you may be gybing through high angles like a RB, or you could be going deeper, surfing the little waves in a wave the RB cannot do. On the LT you are dancing up and down, like walking the plank on a long surfboard. You have the fascinating challenge of staying stuck on by using balance and feel rather than just sticking your feet in straps. Some of us really love that, although we also love the fantastic feeling of a RB howling with the track back.
5- Oddly enough, in really strong winds the LT now seems to be handling better than the RBs with their 9.5s!
6- We don't pump upwind, which is a lot more fun to some of us. We have more varied events - course racing, marathon, slalom and freestyle. And there are more LT fleets around.
7- LT is $2700, RB is about $12000?. One is going to stay the same, the other could be obsolete next year.
8- "Technical" yes, but that seems to mean that there's a bigger gap between fast and slow sailors in speed. Many slower sailors get a bit discouraged by the gap. The LT fleet is closer together and because they tack fast and we don't pump upwind, slower sailors can do especially well in light winds.
9- The LT doesn't carve quite as well as a RB but you can still throw one-handed duck gybes on them. The LT is much more fun for me in light wind gybes, mark roundings etc because it turns faster.
10- I still have an IMCO, 2 old custom Naish RBs including a proto of the original pre-concave Pan Am, and an Equipe II. I haven't sailed them for ages but must get them out one day. They are great boards for charging along in a straight line if it's breezy. That's what the class was designed for. Personally I find them frustrating when used for windward/leeward flat water racing in light winds. If you love them, that's great!
PS - the guy who got 2nd in my class at the Australian nationals was top 10 in the world in the Olympic IMCO rankings, and 2nd in the youth worlds on an IMCO. The junior world IMCO champ and masters RB world champ were in my div at the LT worlds, with IMCO Olympians in other divisions. Our former national IMCO champ is a top LT sailor. There's a lot of people who love them both.
Based on the majority of comments here it seems the Windsurfer LT (Latest Technology?) and foil (Future of Windsurfing?) has made the humble raceboard "obsolete".
If there are any LT sailors (or foilers) no longer using their old raceboards let me know as we can surely use them here in Brisbane.
The raceboard fleet here is growing and they handle the range of wind and wave conditions that we sail in very well.
Also, the raceboard nationals will be held at RQYS in Jan 2020 and there may be a few sailors looking for a raceboard to join the fun.
So if you have any "obsolete" Mistral, F2, Fanatic raceboards taking up room in your garage and need to make room for more LTs, don't throw them out, let me know
LOL nice hijack., maybe you should add a link to your nationals LOL
Thats funny, you sooking someone has hijacked a thread, its hard to find a thread without a LT being the solution to whatever problem is being discussed.
I don't think I'm Sooking more laughing
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..azuli said..RichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.
It is great to see longboard racing return to Perth. If I was still living there I would probably join in the fun on the river too (when I wasn't wave sailing).
Just wondering...if you were racing a marathon from Rottnest Island to Fremantle in the afternoon when the Doctor was in, would you choose to ride your Mistral Equipe or your LT?
Mistral Equipe for sure as footstraps would make the sailing much easier. Such a race no longer exists however and the example you give is of an extreme race of 33 km each way.
There are still some mixed boat/board marathon races over here.
If you don't need that Mistral Equipe any more, please send it over here 
Select to expand quoteazuli said..RichardG said..azuli said..RichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.
It is great to see longboard racing return to Perth. If I was still living there I would probably join in the fun on the river too (when I wasn't wave sailing).
Just wondering...if you were racing a marathon from Rottnest Island to Fremantle in the afternoon when the Doctor was in, would you choose to ride your Mistral Equipe or your LT?
Mistral Equipe for sure as footstraps would make the sailing much easier. Such a race no longer exists however and the example you give is of an extreme race of 33 km each way.
There are still some mixed boat/board marathon races over here.
If you don't need that Mistral Equipe any more, please send it over here
I will keep the Equipe but, have a Mistral One Design for sale, happy to package it up for you for a small fee on top of asking price. Thanks.
