Select to expand quoteSputnik11 said..
The $50 store credit was for the damage done in transit . . . . . not as compensation for the misleading description. Its a credit I can't really use anyway as the store is in a different state. Wouldn't shop there again. You're right, its about brand and reputation. The reputation of that store it completely shot for me. This one dissatisfied customer has had 650+ reads of this thread. I haven't named the store, though part of me feels I should. Maybe if the owner is reading this he could have a think about what's ethical.
AGREE!!!! My advice, free of charge, (Tho I did have a brief moment where I thought of the delta fin, and was going to ask for your credit card details
yes I'm only human) Give him a chance to respond, if hasnt responded within a couple of days, make contact and ask him to read the thread, and to consider making a compensation offer for the misleading advert. If he refuses, then I geuss, you have the option of naming and shaming, but you can at least demonstrate being ethical by giving the person the benfit of the doubt, and a chance to right a wrong, this before u follow thru with an act that may be quite damaging for a store in the business of windsurfing which is probably struggling. If I was to geuss what may have happened, is that maybe the store is just surviving, the owner's psychology then becomes one of a survival mentality, where they exaggerrate the good, and minimize the bad, so they can sell and survive. ethics is a higher order level of thinking and tends to go out the window when people are in survival mode! And of course some people are, how do I put this delicately "Just not nice people", give him a chance to show you which type of person he is!!!!!!!! That way you are ethical , you give him some choices before you act, and he can then take responsibility for the choices he made, if not responsibility then live with the consequences. (Bugger I shouldda charged ya, I get paid good money to dish this sorta stuff out
)
I reckon a repaired nose is **** all.... If you look inside a Cobra board the construction is not excellent. Far from it..
'Excellent' is one step down from brand new.. a brand new board with a minor repair on the nose that's been touched up quite nicely is, imo, not far off excellent...
It'll give you great performance, everything that you want, and you'll probably bash the nose anyway... So you're basically worried about some paint that's not matching...
Half the board's in the shops these days have the sanded look... none of these are in excellent condition, some d!ckhead's sanded all the paint off..
Probably time to take it sailing and forget about it..
I work on the idea that most people are honest but this may not be so true when it comes to second hand boards. I've bought 4 boards in the last 3 years, 3 of them on SB. The first was from SB, a Starboard Go from a dropkick in Torquay VIC. It wasn't described as excellent condition but it wasn't described as trashed either eg. nose repairs, cracked deck and huge soft cracks under the foot pads. All the pics were cleverly taken not to highlight any of the damage. When I tried to contact the seller afterwards he wouldn't answer calls or messages. I didn't pay a fortune but surely paid too much. Not to mention the time and money I spent repairing the board. The next time thought id spend a little more to try and avoid a repeat. I found a Starboard Furtura in "excellent condition" on SB which was only a year or so old at the time. Seemed all good at first but eventually discovered an older fin box repair when doing a small repair to a chip I'd made myself. I didn't contact the seller as it had been too long since id bought it to do anything really. I've also had the issues of damage in transit and gear advertised as wrong year model that has been mentioned earlier in the thread. It would be great to see some tools on SB to help encourage more honesty in Buy & sell. At the end of the day I've put these things down to experience and just try not to get caught out again. I also try to treat buyers the way I like to be treated. In saying all that I've had good buying and selling experiences on SB and think this site in general has played a great, and very important part of my return to windsurfing.
Select to expand quotebarn said..
I reckon a repaired nose is **** all.... If you look inside a Cobra board the construction is not excellent. Far from it..
'Excellent' is one step down from brand new.. a brand new board with a minor repair on the nose that's been touched up quite nicely is, imo, not far off excellent...
and the moisture that's in the core from the ding is an added bonus 
barn you said cobra construction isn't great
Did you pay with credit card ? if yes ring them within 30 days tell them about it they will refund you in full and chase up them for their money
Select to expand quotehardie said..
Advertising a board as Excellent when its had 2 repairs, one dodgy, is very misleading! As a business, its repeat business that creates success, u can get people thru the door once, its getting them back again, and there is the old addage that one unsatisfied customer will tell another 10. Have you been offered compensation, because that would show ethics? Mark said a $50 store voucher?
Last week a guy came to my clinic, and I charged him a full fee via EFPTOS (Eyeing my new fin, with a little saliva dripping from my mouth aka Homer Simpson), but he was a health care card holder and had forgotten to tell me. When he did tell me, I didnt have to refund his money, nor advise of my policy, because I had my eyes on a new delta vector fin, that i wanted really really badly (more saliva). Also I had given him an excellent service. But my policy is to bulk bill health care card holders. My conscience took over, and I apologised to him, and I immediately did an electronic transfer of his money back into his bank account (The new fin had to wait because of ethics Bloody ethics who the hell invented them
) He said "Thankyou so much many wouldnt have done that, they just would've pocketed the money, can I book another appointment please?"
To the store owner, "Think Ethics", do a good deed and return business will come your way, Eastern philosophy says "Karma" exists!!!
mmmmm, this isn't really an example of ethics, or good ones, its simply you were incompetent under your own business policy in reference to charging the customer, you didnt charge them correctly, then you fixed your mistake, the new fin isn't in waiting because of your ethics in this case, its in waiting because under your business policy in regards to pricing, you simply haven't earned the money yet,, the fact you didn't think you had to advice the customer of your policy in regards to pricing, or didn't have to refund the money, or that your job was so excellent it didn't warrant fair pricing under your own policy, suggests poor ethics, good ethics would be you would give more service to rectify your initial mistake, not just simply rectify your mistake,,,,i agree with barn, a board can be in excellent condition and have a good repair as well, do you really think all the boards on seabreeze that say they have been damaged and then repaired by professional, have in fact been repaired by a professional? most people are simply judging the repair by the paint job, least significant aspect of the repair, whatever,
If I was that unhappy with what I received, It would have been couriered back the very next day.
Select to expand quoteMilsy said..hardie said..
i agree with barn, a board can be in excellent condition and have a good repair as well, do you really think all the boards on seabreeze that say they have been damaged and then repaired by professional, have in fact been repaired by a professional? most people are simply judging the repair by the paint job, least significant aspect of the repair, whatever,
milsy I recently brought a 2013 board from SB that had a repair, the price was negotiated because of the repair and I accepted full responsibility of any incurring damage from that repair, as barn said cobra boards aren't the best construction the thing about repairs is you cant see the damage before the repair and what would you class a a good repair , if the board has been repaired back to new status visually and there is moisture in the board is that a good repair, if a board has been repaired the buyer should be told and the price negotiated on that repair and the buyer accept full responsibility, I would say its bad ethics to sell a board without at least putting a pic of the repair up
Select to expand quoteMagnus8 said..
If I was that unhappy with what I received, It would have been couriered back the very next day.
And then what? They have my money, they are interstate and I can guarantee they will argue the toss. I disagree with you on this one, it wasn't an option.
For the record, I have had one PM with another disgruntled buyer with the same seller. I would be interested if there are others. If you've been mislead can you PM me. I think Laurie who runs this site should know. I know now this wasn't a once off, I'd like to know how often it happens.
Name and Shame!!!
Not sure why you protecting them?
Save some other people from suffering the same fate.
Select to expand quotebarn said..
I reckon a repaired nose is **** all.... If you look inside a Cobra board the construction is not excellent. Far from it..
'Excellent' is one step down from brand new.. a brand new board with a minor repair on the nose that's been touched up quite nicely is, imo, not far off excellent...
It'll give you great performance, everything that you want, and you'll probably bash the nose anyway... So you're basically worried about some paint that's not matching...
Half the board's in the shops these days have the sanded look... none of these are in excellent condition, some d!ckhead's sanded all the paint off..
Probably time to take it sailing and forget about it..
I dunno man.
If you bought a car described as a couple of years old and "excellent", then u found out it had a prang and the repair done by panelbeater was visible.... you'd not call it "excellent", surely...?
I agreee that 'excellent condition' can refer to the fact is it perfectly usable and will perform the same as a new board..... yes. And I am sure it will.
But the repair should be disclosed by the seller - as in this hobby, water ingress or an incorrectly performed repair is relevant. For a shop to say that they missed it is inexcusable. Every time I traded a board they noticed every single tiny bit of damage and put a lot of effort into looking for delam etc. That repair sticks out like dog's balls (looks like one of my paint jobs) so whilst the board's usability IS excellent, its overall condition is not. The seller looks shonky immediately.
I feel that the product description was obviously misleading although the odds of a
Resolution from the seller is probaly imposiable. The best course of
Action to resolve the dispute is contact the seller if he does not wish to co.operate
name and shame the business .
You being a consumer must acnoledgae and take responcibility of your purchase ! Buyer beware!
Sounds somewhat familiar to an interstate shop (I'm in WA) that had a Fanatic Hawk I was interested in some time ago advertised on SB buy & sell 'in very good condition with no repairs or dings'. Called the shop to find out more about the board and possibly it's previous owner (who they apparently knew well) to be told that the board had had a repair to the nose!
Select to expand quoteGazMan said..
Sounds somewhat familiar to an interstate shop (I'm in WA) that had a Fanatic Hawk I was interested in some time ago advertised on SB buy & sell 'in very good condition with no repairs or dings'. Called the shop to find out more about the board and possibly it's previous owner (who they apparently knew well) to be told that the board had had a repair to the nose!
CAn you PM me with the name of the store.
Select to expand quoteSputnik11 said..
To add insult to injury the board was damaged in transit
buying interstate.... evil.
Select to expand quotehardie said..Sputnik11 said..
The $50 store credit was for the damage done in transit . . . . . not as compensation for the misleading description. Its a credit I can't really use anyway as the store is in a different state. Wouldn't shop there again. You're right, its about brand and reputation. The reputation of that store it completely shot for me. This one dissatisfied customer has had 650+ reads of this thread. I haven't named the store, though part of me feels I should. Maybe if the owner is reading this he could have a think about what's ethical.
AGREE!!!! My advice, free of charge, (Tho I did have a brief moment where I thought of the delta fin, and was going to ask for your credit card details yes I'm only human) Give him a chance to respond, if hasnt responded within a couple of days, make contact and ask him to read the thread, and to consider making a compensation offer for the misleading advert. If he refuses, then I geuss, you have the option of naming and shaming, but you can at least demonstrate being ethical by giving the person the benfit of the doubt, and a chance to right a wrong, this before u follow thru with an act that may be quite damaging for a store in the business of windsurfing which is probably struggling. If I was to geuss what may have happened, is that maybe the store is just surviving, the owner's psychology then becomes one of a survival mentality, where they exaggerrate the good, and minimize the bad, so they can sell and survive. ethics is a higher order level of thinking and tends to go out the window when people are in survival mode! And of course some people are, how do I put this delicately "Just not nice people", give him a chance to show you which type of person he is!!!!!!!! That way you are ethical , you give him some choices before you act, and he can then take responsibility for the choices he made, if not responsibility then live with the consequences. (Bugger I shouldda charged ya, I get paid good money to dish this sorta stuff out)
ha,,,well, this might break the red thumb record,,,,,,advice free of charge????, Firstly, to your previous shared incompetence at the cash register, perhaps you should let someone else do the charging?, Secondly, its simply poor and or incorrect advice. Ethics are not a variable, they are not to change relevant to changes in ones environment, if sputnikk feels he was deceived, and his ethics suggest that he would share that information to warn others, then he should, regardless of how the seller acts after that fact, eg compensation, what your suggesting with your above advice, is that sputnikk should be unscrupulous, let HIS ethics be dictated by factors other than his own, your basically suggesting he should hold the seller ransom by not acting ethically, give me compensation or i will act ethically and share with others the perceived deception. What he should do ethically speaking is share the perceived deception with all, and seek compensation as well,,,,,,why dont you send the people you are charging good money for this advice around to me, and i will simply just correct you for free
Just name them and get it over with. Any seller that does not care about honesty and the power of public opinion deserves what he gets.
Although I would love to hear the seller present his view on this and get involved, as this is all currently a bit one sided.
When I made my second post on this thread I did not know a shop sold the board. As this is the case its not a good idea to name and shame on Seabreeze except as a very last resort when all other avenues of resolution have been exhausted and the Seabreeze owner(s) have been advised.
There is at least one other website owner out there who got into a huge amount of legal problems when there were negative 'vendor verdicts' posted by forum members.
However this should not mean a vendor can use creative writing to dress up mutton as lamb and not expect negative feedback.
Select to expand quoteMobydisc said...
When I made my second post on this thread I did not know a shop sold the board. As this is the case its not a good idea to name and shame on Seabreeze except as a very last resort when all other avenues of resolution have been exhausted and the Seabreeze owner(s) have been advised.
There is at least one other website owner out there who got into a huge amount of legal problems when there were negative 'vendor verdicts' posted by forum members.
However this should not mean a vendor can use creative writing to dress up mutton as lamb and not expect negative feedback.
It's not a legal issue unless the claims are false of malicious. In this case, it seems that the evidence stacks up in favour of Sputnik.
The law in almost all cases usually sits on the side of the consumer.
I think when it comes to defamation law, the truth is irrelevant. It comes down to whether the public reputation of an individual or perhaps a company is damaged.
Select to expand quoteMobydisc said...
I think when it comes to defamation law, the truth is irrelevant. It comes down to whether the public reputation of an individual or perhaps a company is damaged.
That's BS.
"The defamation law recognises a number of circumstances in which the interest in the material being published outweighs the potential damage to a reputation. These are codified in terms of defences to defamation actions which include:
Justification: It is a complete defence to an action for defamation to prove that the defamatory statement is substantially true.Substantial truth means that provided the justification meets the substance of the imputation, minor inaccuracy will not exclude the defence. The publisher???s motive is irrelevant, if the publisher can show that the imputation is true then it does not matter that he/she was motivated by malice.
Justification: It is a complete defence to an action for defamation to prove that the defamatory statement is substantially true.Substantial truth means that provided the justification meets the substance of the imputation, minor inaccuracy will not exclude the defence. The publisher's motive is irrelevant, if the publisher can show that the imputation is true then it does not matter that he/she was motivated by malice."
Select to expand quoteMilsy said..hardie said..Sputnik11 said..
The $50 store credit was for the damage done in transit . . . . . not as compensation for the misleading description. Its a credit I can't really use anyway as the store is in a different state. Wouldn't shop there again. You're right, its about brand and reputation. The reputation of that store it completely shot for me. This one dissatisfied customer has had 650+ reads of this thread. I haven't named the store, though part of me feels I should. Maybe if the owner is reading this he could have a think about what's ethical.
AGREE!!!! My advice, free of charge, (Tho I did have a brief moment where I thought of the delta fin, and was going to ask for your credit card details yes I'm only human) Give him a chance to respond, if hasnt responded within a couple of days, make contact and ask him to read the thread, and to consider making a compensation offer for the misleading advert. If he refuses, then I geuss, you have the option of naming and shaming, but you can at least demonstrate being ethical by giving the person the benfit of the doubt, and a chance to right a wrong, this before u follow thru with an act that may be quite damaging for a store in the business of windsurfing which is probably struggling. If I was to geuss what may have happened, is that maybe the store is just surviving, the owner's psychology then becomes one of a survival mentality, where they exaggerrate the good, and minimize the bad, so they can sell and survive. ethics is a higher order level of thinking and tends to go out the window when people are in survival mode! And of course some people are, how do I put this delicately "Just not nice people", give him a chance to show you which type of person he is!!!!!!!! That way you are ethical , you give him some choices before you act, and he can then take responsibility for the choices he made, if not responsibility then live with the consequences. (Bugger I shouldda charged ya, I get paid good money to dish this sorta stuff out)
ha,,,well, this might break the red thumb record,,,,,,advice free of charge????, Firstly, to your previous shared incompetence at the cash register, perhaps you should let someone else do the charging?, Secondly, its simply poor and or incorrect advice. Ethics are not a variable, they are not to change relevant to changes in ones environment, if sputnikk feels he was deceived, and his ethics suggest that he would share that information to warn others, then he should, regardless of how the seller acts after that fact, eg compensation, what your suggesting with your above advice, is that sputnikk should be unscrupulous, let HIS ethics be dictated by factors other than his own, your basically suggesting he should hold the seller ransom by not acting ethically, give me compensation or i will act ethically and share with others the perceived deception. What he should do ethically speaking is share the perceived deception with all, and seek compensation as well,,,,,,why dont you send the people you are charging good money for this advice around to me, and i will simply just correct you for free
Milsy why the crack at Hards again?
He said straight up that he charges different for health care card holders and the bloke did not say he had a health care card. I think you have had your free shot at him and just look silly for not having read his post and still going on about it.
Select to expand quotejermaldan said..Mobydisc said...
I think when it comes to defamation law, the truth is irrelevant. It comes down to whether the public reputation of an individual or perhaps a company is damaged.
That's BS.
"The defamation law recognises a number of circumstances in which the interest in the material being published outweighs the potential damage to a reputation. These are codified in terms of defences to defamation actions which include:
Justification: It is a complete defence to an action for defamation to prove that the defamatory statement is substantially true.Substantial truth means that provided the justification meets the substance of the imputation, minor inaccuracy will not exclude the defence. The publisher???s motive is irrelevant, if the publisher can show that the imputation is true then it does not matter that he/she was motivated by malice.
Justification: It is a complete defence to an action for defamation to prove that the defamatory statement is substantially true.Substantial truth means that provided the justification meets the substance of the imputation, minor inaccuracy will not exclude the defence. The publisher's motive is irrelevant, if the publisher can show that the imputation is true then it does not matter that he/she was motivated by malice."
Okay, I stand corrected. I did say "I think", so I was not categorical about it.
Thanks
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..Milsy said..hardie said..Sputnik11 said..
The $50 store credit was for the damage done in transit . . . . . not as compensation for the misleading description. Its a credit I can't really use anyway as the store is in a different state. Wouldn't shop there again. You're right, its about brand and reputation. The reputation of that store it completely shot for me. This one dissatisfied customer has had 650+ reads of this thread. I haven't named the store, though part of me feels I should. Maybe if the owner is reading this he could have a think about what's ethical.
AGREE!!!! My advice, free of charge, (Tho I did have a brief moment where I thought of the delta fin, and was going to ask for your credit card details yes I'm only human) Give him a chance to respond, if hasnt responded within a couple of days, make contact and ask him to read the thread, and to consider making a compensation offer for the misleading advert. If he refuses, then I geuss, you have the option of naming and shaming, but you can at least demonstrate being ethical by giving the person the benfit of the doubt, and a chance to right a wrong, this before u follow thru with an act that may be quite damaging for a store in the business of windsurfing which is probably struggling. If I was to geuss what may have happened, is that maybe the store is just surviving, the owner's psychology then becomes one of a survival mentality, where they exaggerrate the good, and minimize the bad, so they can sell and survive. ethics is a higher order level of thinking and tends to go out the window when people are in survival mode! And of course some people are, how do I put this delicately "Just not nice people", give him a chance to show you which type of person he is!!!!!!!! That way you are ethical , you give him some choices before you act, and he can then take responsibility for the choices he made, if not responsibility then live with the consequences. (Bugger I shouldda charged ya, I get paid good money to dish this sorta stuff out)
ha,,,well, this might break the red thumb record,,,,,,advice free of charge????, Firstly, to your previous shared incompetence at the cash register, perhaps you should let someone else do the charging?, Secondly, its simply poor and or incorrect advice. Ethics are not a variable, they are not to change relevant to changes in ones environment, if sputnikk feels he was deceived, and his ethics suggest that he would share that information to warn others, then he should, regardless of how the seller acts after that fact, eg compensation, what your suggesting with your above advice, is that sputnikk should be unscrupulous, let HIS ethics be dictated by factors other than his own, your basically suggesting he should hold the seller ransom by not acting ethically, give me compensation or i will act ethically and share with others the perceived deception. What he should do ethically speaking is share the perceived deception with all, and seek compensation as well,,,,,,why dont you send the people you are charging good money for this advice around to me, and i will simply just correct you for free
Milsy why the crack at Hards again?
He said straight up that he charges different for health care card holders and the bloke did not say he had a health care card. I think you have had your free shot at him and just look silly for not having read his post and still going on about it.
You can't be ceral!!!!?????? That actually feels heart felt, you can interpret his shared information any way you please, to me, it appears incorrect for what Hards is using it as an example of, firstly his example of ethically behaviour is nothing more than incompetence being rectified, then his advice on how one should act ethically is simple incorrect, its advice on how to behave unscrupulous, its not personal, im sure hards is a nice guy, but with a poor understanding of ethics? If this is bothering him, perhaps a nickname of "Hards", is a little too ironic, perhaps "Softs" and you "Sucks", ha, enjoy, its not like im calling him a kiddie fiddler for sharing different views on gun ownership
If he's been sold a repaired board listed as being in excellent condition and the seller has made no mention of the repair, then legally & ethically there is not an issue with him publicly vilifying the seller. Even if it was defamation, it can take years for it to get to court and the party filing suit would have to outlay upwards of $50'000k - yes he would get this back if he won, but it's a huge & expensive risk to take if there is some truth to the defamation. I haven't read all the posts, but if the seller is a shop, then it will be pretty easy to return the board & get your money back. There are at least 3 consumer laws the shop has breached.
