Select to expand quoteMatStirl said..Chris 249 said..Ian K said..Chris 249 said..
I It turns out that Opti sales are slowing down so the LT is actually waaaay out in front.
Not for long.
Like the Laser, its sales have dropped since it started foiling. And it's probably like the Laser in that foilers will be so slow upwind that they'll be slower all-round.
One data point that's interesting is that the cats have a very organised database of performance that they use to tune their rating rule, and nowadays they reckon that adding foils adds only 2% to a cat's speed. Obviously it's not bad, but it's less than adding a spinnaker normally adds, and the few people who reckoned adding assy kites to cats would change the future were dead wrong. Foiling's cool, but in most forms of sailing it's just a tiny niche with not much actual growth despite all the hype.
The Windsurfer is a bit of a reaction against the idea that a higher max speed and more complication and expense is the way forward, and the Windsurfer's way is clearly working.
Agree especially with last bit of this post. Many obviously just want simple one design gear that can be raced in sub planing conditions.
Shame the 'new' race gear doesn't have footstraps etc though.
Cheers.
I wouldn't mind footstrap mounting holes but if by "etc" you mean a mast track and fully battened sails, as some have wanted, I'd have to say that's exactly the cost, complication and focus on peak speed that the LT is trying to avoid.
Maybe we should throw away what we think a board for this role should have, and instead learn from experience. That experience is showing us that longboard ODs with straps, tracks etc like the IMCO died, and ODs without them are thriving (Kona and LT). I loved the IMCO and was one of the last to stop racing them, but they were very cluttered and complicated to sail. That's great, but it's not what the LT is meant to be.
You may find that the different style required becomes very enjoyable; after all, longboard surfers love walking the board. The feeling of being locked in is nice, but so is the delicacy and balance involved in not being locked in. I think the latter is a better match for the LT in many ways.
I wouldn't have ever expected one to keep up with PTs unless it was howling; in my experience a Raceboard 8.5 or IMCO can't keep up with PTs unless it's windy, and no one pretends that the LT is as fast as a Raceboard, just as no one pretends a PT is as fast as an A Class.
Re your other comments;
The CBs can be sticky; spray the lips or just give the cover a harsh kick to get it down that first little bit; also check the friction adjustment.
The top of the CB is pretty much on the centre of gravity so is a good handhold for carrying.
Don't try to force it to rail. The less boxy rails are a tradeoff for much better tacking ability, which is part of the LT's style. The board sails best quite flat, until it wants to rail by itself.
It's great you enjoyed it. Like every class, it won't suit everyone and it has its foibles and compromises.
why does it have to be all or nothing. just adding 3 plugs for blasting position would be enough.
doesnt meant all the other gear is needed.
where i sail plenty of guys use longboards for blasting. some have even glassed up the centreboard case.
Select to expand quotewindsufering said..AUS 814 said..windsufering said..windsufering said..AUS 814 said..windsufering said..
Nice Exocet RF foil board, not sure if its the 81 or 91.Even a crappy rig will get a foil out of the water !
So you don't need those exotic expensive sails with carbon booms and mast ?
Pity you don't answer the Question ??
No but you need a foil board or equivalent and of course some kind of foil.You will foil with a soft sail but wont win a PWA event. Hope that answers the question 
A simple yes or no would of been ok because 99% of foilers will not be winning PWA events
Thats correct because 99.9% of windsurfers in general dont compete in the PWA
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..
Kona are thriving....is that true ? There are none in WA. How many in NSW ?
They are still doing pretty well in Europe, although not as well as the LT. At least until the LT came out, they were selling at the rate of about 200 a year and they get about 70-80 boards or so at worlds, which isn't doing badly at all compared to other racing board classes. It's doing better than Formula Experience (which seems to be dead at international level, at least), NP One (ditto, or close to it), and the long-lamented IMCO. Sure, there's never been an active class in Australia but the class is doing OK as a whole.
The point was that the two OD classes that are longboards without mast tracks (LT and Kona) are doing pretty well, while more complicated OD classes like the NP One and IMCO have died, therefore there is no reason to think that the LT's lack of a mast track is a bad thing and there's evidence that it's a good thing.
One may also add that the people who want an OD with straps and a big rig could have got Konas, which were made available in Australia and which could have raced alongside Windsurfer One Designs. Basically no one did.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
why does it have to be all or nothing. just adding 3 plugs for blasting position would be enough.
doesnt meant all the other gear is needed.
where i sail plenty of guys use longboards for blasting. some have even glassed up the centreboard case.
Sure, adding some plugs could be a good idea as I noted above. It just depends on what "etc" meant in Matt's post. My point was that some people have said it's a good board but that it should have a bigger fin, full straps, a bigger rig, full battens, mast track etc etc at which time it's basically a completely different concept.
There was at least one magazine that said it should have a track etc, which was a bit like testing a single-speed hardtail MTB and saying "it's great, but it needs 21 gears and dual suspension" or like testing a small, cheap city car and saying "nice, but it should have a turbocharged V8, low range 4WD and seat seven". History shows us that a successful OD class has to remain true to the concept that made it a success, and not try to be every thing to all sailors.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..One may also add that the people who want an OD with straps and a big rig could have got Konas, which were made available in Australia and which could have raced alongside Windsurfer One Designs. Basically no one did.RichardG said..
Kona are thriving....is that true ? There are none in WA. How many in NSW ?
They are still doing pretty well in Europe, although not as well as the LT. At least until the LT came out, they were selling at the rate of about 200 a year and they get about 70-80 boards or so at worlds, which isn't doing badly at all compared to other racing board classes. It's doing better than Formula Experience (which seems to be dead at international level, at least), NP One (ditto, or close to it), and the long-lamented IMCO. Sure, there's never been an active class in Australia but the class is doing OK as a whole.
The point was that the two OD classes that are longboards without mast tracks (LT and Kona) are doing pretty well, while more complicated OD classes like the NP One and IMCO have died, therefore there is no reason to think that the LT's lack of a mast track is a bad thing and there's evidence that it's a good thing.
One may also add that the people who want an OD with straps and a big rig could have got Konas, which were made available in Australia and which could have raced alongside Windsurfer One Designs. Basically no one did.
The fact that the LT is outselling the Kona is interesting albeit unsurprising since the Kona must now be almost 15 years old or so and has failed to gain traction here. The LT is probably outselling all other windsurfing classes. It seems it would possibly be the fastest selling windsurfing board in the world.
As I understand it, it's clearly the top selling windsurfer board. Not only that, according to the figures from the AGM and elsewhere, it is outselling the Laser AND Opti (the #1 and #2 OD classes in terms of sales) combined, by a good margin - and an owner of one of the brands involved told me he could have sold 250 more in the first year, if Cobra could supply them quickly enough.
The Kona was selling something like 1/10th as fast as the LT at the same age, according to class reports. That was at the peak of the era when almost everyone said longboards had no future so it wasn't a bad effort, but the LT seems to be the most successful OD racing class of the last decade by a long shot. Hopefully it will keep on growing like that.
The challenge for the class, IMHO, is now attracting a younger market to ensure that it keeps going.
Some good points.
The LT is selling fast so just goes to show how many people just like a simple cheap one design platform.
Challenge is that take up is mainly by the older guys so sales will eventually reduce and I'm not sure the big slow LT will appeal to the kids - I'm thinking about getting mine a Bic Techno to share.
My main beef with the LT is that once the wind picks up I don't really get that thrill of comfortable planing while racing around the course - and certainly wouldn't take my LT for a recreational blast.
That said if I want to fleet race, LT is the only option and I will just have to get over it....or race the LT up to 15 knots and a Bic Techno above as I'm considering.
Hobart just had 20+ for an LT clinic and about 10 the next day.
Not bad considering organised racing didn't really exist here 12 months ago.
You would be very surprised how many people are coming back to the Wally Lt with a purpose to get their kids
windsurfing !
It all depends on what you happen to like, Matt; there are many of us who love recreational blasting on LTs. It's a different style and may take some time to get used to. You may never get into it, but that's completely a matter of personal taste and not a problem with the board; it's just like the fact that a Laser is different to a Hobie. The fact that the LT is the only option for fleet racing says a fair bit by itself - people had the OD Raceboard option with the IMCO but sadly they walked away from it.
No disrespect to the T293, but if being short and fast in planing conditions was really important to most kids, then there wouldn't be far more of them in dinghies than in boards. And surely windsurfing will be in a better position to attract kids if the LT re-attracts the old guys who can provide critical mass and set up junior programmes.
Select to expand quoteMaddlad said..
Selling is likely to be the only things it's fastest at..
Not a problem - after all, if top end speed is what's important then none of us would be windsurfing since kites are faster.
And of course, on a typical day on the typical east coast waterway, a longboard is normally faster much of the time anyway.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said. Not a problem - after all, if top end speed is what's important then none of us would be windsurfing since kites are faster.
And of course, on a typical day on the typical east coast waterway, a longboard is normally faster much of the time anyway.
Fair point - if speed was everything kite foiling would be the go, supposedly a visiting pro went over 40 knots here in the ocean at South Freo 
But I reckon if you want to have fun carving cranking turns off every bit of chop/swell in sight in 10 to 30 knots of breeze, nothing beats freeride foiling
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..Maddlad said..
Selling is likely to be the only things it's fastest at..
Not a problem - after all, if top end speed is what's important then none of us would be windsurfing since kites are faster.
And of course, on a typical day on the typical east coast waterway, a longboard is normally faster much of the time anyway.
You only need 10 knots of windspeed to get 20knots of speed using a foil.Guess it depends on what a typical day looks like
Select to expand quoteAUS 814 said..Chris 249 said..Maddlad said..
Selling is likely to be the only things it's fastest at..
Not a problem - after all, if top end speed is what's important then none of us would be windsurfing since kites are faster.
And of course, on a typical day on the typical east coast waterway, a longboard is normally faster much of the time anyway.
You only need 10 knots of windspeed to get 20knots of speed using a foil.Guess it depends on what a typical day looks like
Ten knots is more than the typical windspeed in most places; www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/climate_averages/wind-velocity/index.jsp
Boat designer Frank Bethwaite measured the wind speed and patterns at many famous sailing spots around the world and he reckoned the typical peak windspeed on a summer day was about 9 knots. And he was measuring spots near open water, not the many beaches and bays where the windspeed is lower than that, and he wasn't measuring about 1 pm when the wind is normally strongest, not on the summer afternoons after work when many people sail. Where I used to sail in Sydney, a Formula board was normally slower than a One Design because the normal wind was light and shifty.
Sure, the foilers are often faster, but for many of us that's irrelevant just as it's irrelevant to your typical keen cyclist that a streamlined recumbent tricycle is faster than their bikes, and it's irrelevant to windsurfers who foil that a kitefoiler is faster. If you love foiling that's great, but it's basically irrelevant to many people.
Not sure re the irrelevance of windfoiling, anecdotally it seems many people are converting to it especially for those days less than 15 knots.Would be interesting to see how many foils and foil boards have been sold over the past 3 years
Select to expand quoteAUS 814 said..
Not sure re the irrelevance of windfoiling, anecdotally it seems many people are converting to it especially for those days less than 15 knots.Would be interesting to see how many foils and foil boards have been sold over the past 3 years
That's fantastic now take that too another thread !
Select to expand quotewindsufering said..AUS 814 said..
Not sure re the irrelevance of windfoiling, anecdotally it seems many people are converting to it especially for those days less than 15 knots.Would be interesting to see how many foils and foil boards have been sold over the past 3 years
That's fantastic now take that too another thread !
It would be helpful if your comments even made some vague sense
Select to expand quoteAUS 814 said..windsufering said..AUS 814 said..
Not sure re the irrelevance of windfoiling, anecdotally it seems many people are converting to it especially for those days less than 15 knots.Would be interesting to see how many foils and foil boards have been sold over the past 3 years
That's fantastic now take that too another thread !
It would be helpful if your comments even made some vague sense
The Topic of this thread is " The new Windsurfer LT Reviewed in detail "
Select to expand quoteAUS 814 said..
Not sure re the irrelevance of windfoiling, anecdotally it seems many people are converting to it especially for those days less than 15 knots.Would be interesting to see how many foils and foil boards have been sold over the past 3 years
Please - I did NOT say that windfoiling is irrelevant!! I said that to many of us, the fact that windfoilers often go faster is irrelevant.
If you like windfoiling that's great, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us have to care about whether you often go faster or not.
Select to expand quotewindsufering said..AUS 814 said..windsufering said..AUS 814 said..
Not sure re the irrelevance of windfoiling, anecdotally it seems many people are converting to it especially for those days less than 15 knots.Would be interesting to see how many foils and foil boards have been sold over the past 3 years
That's fantastic now take that too another thread !
It would be helpful if your comments even made some vague sense
The Topic of this thread is " The new Windsurfer LT Reviewed in detail "
Select to expand quotewindsufering said..AUS 814 said..windsufering said..AUS 814 said..
Not sure re the irrelevance of windfoiling, anecdotally it seems many people are converting to it especially for those days less than 15 knots.Would be interesting to see how many foils and foil boards have been sold over the past 3 years
That's fantastic now take that too another thread !
It would be helpful if your comments even made some vague sense
The Topic of this thread is " The new Windsurfer LT Reviewed in detail "
Much better
Windsurfing is a fringe sport who's limited numbers are diluted by so many forms of windsurfing.
Windsurfing and sailing for that matter seems intent on constantly generating new classes or models. That makes fleet racing difficult.
As much as it's performance frustrates me and I wish the world raced the Bic Techno, RS One, Prodigy or even old Mistral IMCO the LT has renewed interest in the sport- at least for old timers.
Hopefully that translates to the younger generation somehow and the sport doesn't shrink further.
Select to expand quoteKA360 said..
For sure adding a windsup to you quiver for cruising around on light wind days is a good thing. Having a variety of types of boards creates more opportunity and develops a greater skill set. Also nice to have a board to give a mate a first try a windsurfing on with a board you regularly use . They can then go buy themselves a dedicated modern windsurf board to learn on and quickly progress.
So if it fits your lifestyle buy a windsup,any windsup.
The windsurfer is cheap windsup,thats a positive . Just add your existing rig and rock and roll.
But as far as one design windsurf racing they could have done so much better.The board itself looks to perform well in its intended lighter wind range .For just a few more $ it could have been transformed from a cheap windsup to a proper racing one design WINDSURFER.
1- a racing (upwind/downwind) long board should have a mast track.
2-Footstraps to really get it going and allowing it to be used comfortably in a lot more wind
3-ditch the ancient rig for something with a stable draft
Windsurfer should have made a bigger jump. Like the jump from VCR to DVD. Some people might not like it a first,for others (maybe even me)a game changer and worth it.
To me the Glide looks like the best one design right now, but unfortunately marketing and timing will determine if it will be successful .Then next year the Olympic OD will be determined and the RSX doomed to extinction. Add techno and there is a lot of choices for a small number of people interested in racing, not all will survive.
For a few hundred $ more the Wally could have been so much more
Agree with this old post but unfortunately we haven't in large enough (or really any) numbers adopted any of the good hybrid funboard options - Techno, Prodigy, RS One or Glide etc.
These are all great to sail, lighter, faster and more appealing to juniors.
None of that matters. If you want to fleet race...LT it is.
Matt, there are significant numbers of kids sailing LTs, like the current runner-up in the World Youth titles, and the top Australians from the last two T293 nationals. I'm not attacking the T293, but there's no real evidence that youth prefer it. After all, if being fast in strong winds was what appealed to kids the Radial and Opti wouldn't be such huge classes. If having a short and light windsurfer is important to youth then they wouldn't sail a heavy 3m board.
The T293 clearly works and that's great, but it arguably works because of its compromises, and the LT works because of its own compromises in the same way.
By the way, if you sail in different areas different types of boards are appealing and fast. At Dobroyd, for instance, the T293s were normally slower than ODs, and the Prodigys were only faster than the ODs because they had 40% more sail. All of the hybrids were kicked by IMCO 7.4s and Raceboard 8.5s almost every race. All of the kids who went to T293 dropped out of windsurfing. All of the Prodigys were sold. I don't mean to be bagging those classes but since your posts regularly denigrate the LT it's reasonable to point out the other side of the coin.
Hybrids, FW, T293, RB, slalom, wave, speed, foil and LT are all great; they can't really be compared. If you want an LT to feel like a hybrid you'll be disappointed - just as I am when I sail hybrids.
LT. Turn up to the sailing club and race once a week without fail, without complication, without the need to bring any gear, its stored at the club. Race regardless of windspeed 5-25 knots. No issues waiting for wind. The LT fleet is becoming one of the biggest fleets at the club. No need to choose a sail size or mast or rig, since there is one size for all conditions. It is the best thing to happen again in windsurfing in my opinion. The board can be used as SUP or a surfboard as well as a course racing windsurf board. Perfect for a family to acquire, infact better than a SUP. Your performance is a function of your fitness and skills on the board not the equipment or your wallet. This is why the LT is so popular. There are no shortage of top sailors in the Perth LT fleet which intensifies the sailing experience. It is just a matter of time before some of the younger sailors enter the fleet after finishing up with the junior dinghies. The Worlds are in Perth for 2020-21 so start your campaign now !
