Select to expand quoteseanhogan said..
I, for one, can only admire all the work put in by Dylan to run ka72 for Free !
I started a team in gpstc a while ago for New Cal, but in the end couldn't see the point, maybe some of my mates are still posting, I don't visit it anymore.
Comparing teams & results from overstate or overseas seemed pointless to me. Comparing pears and apples.
Don't get me wrong, it's probably really cool for all it's members. Not me.
I prefer the opportunity offered by Dylan to create specific groups/teams with specific/custom categories.
And with all results stored on site, no need to keep them and anyone can go and check them out. Without having to ask, which I wouldn't do.
So if you're full on 0.001 results/data/error accuracy, then post to gpstc with the approved device (which seems like an expensive piece of...BTW ) and if you're more into the fun side of windsurfing and don't mind losing/winning 1/4 of a knot, then create or join a group on ka72 !
@ Decrepit : I usually agree with you, but :"much easier to post the odd tracks to people who ask than to upload every session to KA72"
I can't see how..... Three clicks on ka72 and your file is on line. How can it be easier ?
Cheers
I respect your point of view and interests. Here are a couple of points:
1. KA72 is a great creation, but it is not really 'free'. It probably does not make Dylan lots of money and may also be a labour of love 
, but it is a proprietary app. and he pays for it, or supports it though advertising and sales. I really don't think he has any intention to do so, but he could turn it off tomorrow, or start charging for it, if he so decided, at any time. Long may it live!
2. For spot rankings and comparisons, KA72 does a great job, at least for those who join in and post to it.
3. It sounds like your interest in spot and day rankings would also be well served by the original, GPS-SS website. That is what it was set up to do, and still does well. It too, is now a 'business model'.
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Select to expand quoteBoston! said..
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Cherry Pickers Boston, I'm sure they won't admit it ??
Select to expand quoteBoston! said..
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Personally, I run multiple GPS's for 2 reasons,
1 is back up in case the main one fails.
2 is because I'm testing units.
Picking the highest numbers is not in the spirit of the game. If I do any picking it's for the unit with the highest accuracy.
If a file is asked for, then you can only send in one file, not several files with the best numbers in them.
I always analyse my data, previously in real speed but now with GPSResults. I want to check there are no anomalys where and how I got my results, especially alphas, I want to see if I've been going too wide. While I'm checking the numbers I post to the GTC.
I'll never leave the responsibility of posting correct data to an outside source.
If anyone thinks I'm cherry picking, just ask for my files, you're more than welcome to check.
1 GPS (GT11) use Realspeed, if ever I have any disparities then I use GPS action reply to check, but post from RS.
When Traveling down to Albany, I'll use Ka72 for a check on the day but then recalculate when I get home on RS for consistency of my data. Quite often there are variances between to two often not in my favour.
I know a lot of people who use multiple GPS's primarily because they have been caught out with unit failures on PB day's, some of us are a bit more "Zen" and can take these things philosophically, others tend to take a month or two to recover their toys after launching them from the cot, these tend to be the distance mad baskets and the alpha freaks, which is fair enough because that's a lot harder than blasting in a straight line.
As a side note
Sailing with at least two GPS's was originally brought up by GPSSS as a means of confirming world records back in the day.
Select to expand quoteTinlyds said..Boston! said..
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Cherry Pickers Boston, I'm sure they won't admit it ??
I run 4......care to check 
Select to expand quotekato said..Tinlyds said..Boston! said..
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Cherry Pickers Boston, I'm sure they won't admit it ??
I run 4......care to check
I run a GW60 and GW52. I post from only one of them, usually the GW52, which normally has the best and with least error result.
Select to expand quotekato said..Tinlyds said..Boston! said..
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Cherry Pickers Boston, I'm sure they won't admit it ??
I run 4......care to check
But you run the sequentially and still run out of battery and memory in the one session
Select to expand quote
DBoston! said..
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Cherry picking is against the "rules " as documented in GPSTC.
You must post all results from one file from one device.
This has happened and we can not see it occur when files are not public.
People who have done this are not going to admit to this on a public forum.
You question why anyone would ever wear more than 2 approved devices?
Select to expand quoteelmo said..kato said..Tinlyds said..Boston! said..
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Cherry Pickers Boston, I'm sure they won't admit it ??
I run 4......care to check
But you run the sequentially and still run out of battery and memory in the one session
Always 
Select to expand quote
John340 said..kato said..Tinlyds said..Boston! said..
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Cherry Pickers Boston, I'm sure they won't admit it ??
I run 4......care to check
I run a GW60 and GW52. I post from only one of them, usually the GW52, which normally has the best and with least error result.
John,
You use GW52 majority of the time as it gives higher readings.
Select to expand quoteBoston! said..
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Another way to process your results is to load your file to GPS Speed Sailing.
Seems that they weed out the rubbish, load your good data.
They then give you a link to GPSTeamChallenge and send your data on.
Select to expand quoteTe Hau said..
Another way to process your results is to load your file to GPS Speed Sailing.
Seems that they weed out the rubbish, load your good data.
They then give you a link to GPSTeamChallenge and send your data on.
Yes. GPS-Speedsurfing uses an embedded version of GPS-Results to calculate and filter your data.
It will usually give you a lower total distance figure though, especially if you do a lot of slow sailing (longboard?) or drifting, as by default it filters out all speeds below 5 knots. We dont require that for GPS-TC.
Man, this is so boring. Get a grip guys and sail and enjoy it! Forget trying to be 2 knots faster then you mates on the day for what? It is all forgotten the next day.
Select to expand quoteCocky2 said..DBoston! said..
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Cherry picking is against the "rules " as documented in GPSTC.
You must post all results from one file from one device.
This has happened and we can not see it occur when files are not public.
People who have done this are not going to admit to this on a public forum.
You question why anyone would ever wear more than 2 approved devices?
Lets see:
- a minimum of two devices are *required* for GPSSSRC records...
- maybe someone is going for say 650km of distance, but manages to lose two of them
- maybe the battery runs out because it is dodgy... or old.
As for the "cherry picking"... a device is being used and it measured a slightly higher values that another devices - both devices are within the limits of its stated accuracy and produced error-bars.
Are you saying that device is defective?
Or are you saying that you wont allow that sailor to claim the speed as measured by that device, even though they went that speed ?
Select to expand quotemathew said..Cocky2 said..DBoston! said..
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Cherry picking is against the "rules " as documented in GPSTC.
You must post all results from one file from one device.
This has happened and we can not see it occur when files are not public.
People who have done this are not going to admit to this on a public forum.
You question why anyone would ever wear more than 2 approved devices?
Lets see:
- a minimum of two devices are *required* for GPSSSRC records...
- maybe someone is going for say 650km of distance, but manages to lose two of them
- maybe the battery runs out because it is dodgy... or old.
As for the "cherry picking"... a device is being used and it measured a slightly higher values that another devices - both devices are within the limits of its stated accuracy and produced error-bars.
Are you saying that device is defective?
Or are you saying that you wont allow that sailor to claim the speed as measured by that device, even though they went that speed ?
Do you go for a world record every sail?
Are the approved devices that unreliable you have to wear 2 every time you sail?
Why would anyone wear 3 or 4 unless they were looking at cherry picking.
It is against the rules to cherry pick.
Select to expand quotemathew said..Cocky2 said..DBoston! said..
Just out of interest, are any of the people who are not using KA72 willing to disclose exactly how they process their tracks? I'm guessing you would run it through RealSpeed and/or GPS Results then just punch the results manually into GPSTC? I also see people running up to three GPS's . Are you then selecting the GPS with the best numbers and using the results from that unit only or are people running all three GPS data through the software and then picking the best numbers from different GPS's.
Cherry picking is against the "rules " as documented in GPSTC.
You must post all results from one file from one device.
This has happened and we can not see it occur when files are not public.
People who have done this are not going to admit to this on a public forum.
You question why anyone would ever wear more than 2 approved devices?
Lets see:
- a minimum of two devices are *required* for GPSSSRC records...
- maybe someone is going for say 650km of distance, but manages to lose two of them
- maybe the battery runs out because it is dodgy... or old.
As for the "cherry picking"... a device is being used and it measured a slightly higher values that another devices - both devices are within the limits of its stated accuracy and produced error-bars.
Are you saying that device is defective?
Or are you saying that you wont allow that sailor to claim the speed as measured by that device, even though they went that speed ?
So. er Mathew, is that you admitting to "Cherry Picking" or simply trying to sell us on the merits of it?
No, he's talking about me.....and no I just post from one if it's any of your business .
Durning my last world record I crashed and lost two GT 31. Luckily I was running 4 and it's a minimum of 2 gps to have any record considered.
I believe this issue has been done to death and there are people who won't or can't accept the science as to why things are done. As many have said "without error data etc....." there is no way to prove the speeds.
As to using Ka72 go for it, but I usually check the tracks on other programs first.
Please dont cheat people who have done fantastic Pbs with approved devices and methods by using gpss that don't the specifications. It's demeaning to all who sail in this sport of GPSSS.
Select to expand quotekato said..
No, he's talking about me.....and no I just post from one if it's any of your business .
Durning my last world record I crashed and lost two GT 31. Luckily I was running 4 and it's a minimum of 2 gps to have any record considered.
I believe this issue has been done to death and there are people who won't or can't accept the science as to why things are done. As many have said "without error data etc....." there is no way to prove the speeds.
As to using Ka72 go for it, but I usually check the tracks on other programs first.
Please dont cheat people who have done fantastic Pbs with approved devices and methods by using gpss that don't the specifications. It's demeaning to all who sail in this sport of GPSSS.
Kato, with all due respect, I didn't ask about any of your "business". What I did do was ask Mathew about his earlier comment. I'm sure he is capable of answering for himself.
Select to expand quotechoco said..
If it bothers you guys that much take up lawn bowls.
No I tried bowls once but found some guys were using 6 bowls and picking the best 3 ??????????????
Select to expand quotechoco said..
If it bothers you guys that much take up lawn bowls.
Thanks for the career advice Choco but I'm currently waiting for my new sails to arrive .......from you! So I think I'll stick to the windsurfing!
Select to expand quoteBoston! said..kato said..
No, he's talking about me.....and no I just post from one if it's any of your business .
Durning my last world record I crashed and lost two GT 31. Luckily I was running 4 and it's a minimum of 2 gps to have any record considered.
I believe this issue has been done to death and there are people who won't or can't accept the science as to why things are done. As many have said "without error data etc....." there is no way to prove the speeds.
As to using Ka72 go for it, but I usually check the tracks on other programs first.
Please dont cheat people who have done fantastic Pbs with approved devices and methods by using gpss that don't the specifications. It's demeaning to all who sail in this sport of GPSSS.
Kato, with all due respect, I didn't ask about any of your "business". What I did do was ask Mathew about his earlier comment. I'm sure he is capable of answering for himself.
"with all due respect" and yet you aren't supplying any - you are being nasty to someone whom uses more than two GPS's and had a valid reason to do so.
Answering your question - here is a hypothetical pic showing two different GPS's sampling of an elliptical-model-curve for a short term board-speed, highlighting a two-second interval. The gps-device will sample the speeds at a non-time-aligned 1-second interval; the processing software will use the 1Hz data to generate a 2-second peak.
Which gps device is the one that should be chosen ?
Select to expand quoteBoston! said..choco said..
If it bothers you guys that much take up lawn bowls.
Thanks for the career advice Choco but I'm currently waiting for my new sails to arrive .......from you! So I think I'll stick to the windsurfing!
Select to expand quotemathew said..Boston! said..kato said..
No, he's talking about me.....and no I just post from one if it's any of your business .
Durning my last world record I crashed and lost two GT 31. Luckily I was running 4 and it's a minimum of 2 gps to have any record considered.
I believe this issue has been done to death and there are people who won't or can't accept the science as to why things are done. As many have said "without error data etc....." there is no way to prove the speeds.
As to using Ka72 go for it, but I usually check the tracks on other programs first.
Please dont cheat people who have done fantastic Pbs with approved devices and methods by using gpss that don't the specifications. It's demeaning to all who sail in this sport of GPSSS.
Kato, with all due respect, I didn't ask about any of your "business". What I did do was ask Mathew about his earlier comment. I'm sure he is capable of answering for himself.
"with all due respect" and yet you aren't supplying any - you are being nasty to someone whom uses more than two GPS's and had a valid reason to do so.
Answering your question - here is a hypothetical pic showing two different GPS's sampling of an elliptical-model-curve for a short term board-speed, highlighting a two-second interval. The gps-device will sample the speeds at a non-time-aligned 1-second interval; the processing software will use the 1Hz data to generate a 2-second peak.
Which gps device is the one that should be chosen ?
Mathew, I am not being nasty to anybody for using multiple GPS's. The GW60's are so crappy that you would be mad to use only one source if going for any records. I lost a distance PB last year when one failed mid session on me. I am currently waiting on my third GW60 to arrive in the post. (only one store in Australia has any stock) Until then the rules state that I cannot use my Garmin to post my two lightwind sessions to GPSTC as it is against the rules. I think this rule sucks but I will abide. It's also against the rules to "cherry pick" data from multiple sources, something which you appear to be either advocating or practising or both. I've asked you to confirm this either way.
You seem reluctant to answer my question and have instead answered with another question and yet another graph.
Select to expand quoteBoston! said..
It's also against the rules to "cherry pick" data from multiple sources, something which you appear to be either advocating or practising or both.
'Cherry Picking' is not a term used in the rules, and is therefore, it's use in this context is highly misleading.
a. You are encouraged to wear more than one GPS and
b. You may select the best set of verified data from one of those GPS.
Quote from the rules page
:
Using multiple GPS's.
GPS devices sometimes can fail, or users can sometimes make errors in use that can result in lost data, or no recorded data on a device, so users are encouraged to use multiple GPS's if they wish to have backup redundancy. In such cases, users should select the complete set of data from only one of the devices to post, preferably from the device with the lowest +/- numbers, unless the technical panel gives an individual case approval.
As has been stated many times before, there is actually no technical reason why it would be invalid to take the best results from different GPS's, as long as the results fell within the error margins of the other devices (they are all equally valid), but for simplicity, clarity, administrative convenience, and to try to avoid confusion like that which seems to beset Cocky2, the rules say to use the results from only one of the GPS you use.
Select to expand quotesailquik said..Boston! said..
It's also against the rules to "cherry pick" data from multiple sources, something which you appear to be either advocating or practising or both.
'Cherry Picking' is not a term used in the rules, and is therefore, it's use in this context is highly misleading.
a. You are encouraged to wear more than one GPS and
b. You may select the best set of verified data from one of those GPS.
Quote from the rules page
:
Using multiple GPS's.
GPS devices sometimes can fail, or users can sometimes make errors in use that can result in lost data, or no recorded data on a device, so users are encouraged to use multiple GPS's if they wish to have backup redundancy. In such cases, users should select the complete set of data from only one of the devices to post, preferably from the device with the lowest +/- numbers, unless the technical panel gives an individual case approval.
As has been stated many times before, there is actually no technical reason why it would be invalid to take the best results from different GPS's, as long as the results fell within the error margins of the other devices (they are all equally valid), but for simplicity, clarity, administrative convenience, and to try to avoid confusion like that which seems to beset Cocky2, the rules say to use the results from only one of the GPS you use.
Thanks for the straight answer, Daffy. I can appreciate the reasons for having the rules state that only one device is allowed to be utilized when posting results. I certainly would not like to have to go through three or four or five GPS data logs for every single track that that is requested to be analyzed by GPSTC admin. It would be a nightmare. And, I agree with you that there is "no technical reason" why you could not take the best results from any of your GPS's providing that the GPS is of the compliant type.
What I don't think is right is that the majority have been following this "one GPS" rule (and the rest of the rules) while you guys appear to have been ignoring your own rule while quite likely, gaining an advantage while doing so. (I'm assuming that would be the main reason for doing it?)
Are there any other rules in the GPSTC that we have been following that we need not have? Rules for the plebs?
I know a few people who wouldn't mind being kept in the loop!
Select to expand quoteBoston! said..sailquik said..Boston! said..
It's also against the rules to "cherry pick" data from multiple sources, something which you appear to be either advocating or practising or both.
'Cherry Picking' is not a term used in the rules, and is therefore, it's use in this context is highly misleading.
a. You are encouraged to wear more than one GPS and
b. You may select the best set of verified data from one of those GPS.
Quote from the rules page
:
Using multiple GPS's.
GPS devices sometimes can fail, or users can sometimes make errors in use that can result in lost data, or no recorded data on a device, so users are encouraged to use multiple GPS's if they wish to have backup redundancy. In such cases, users should select the complete set of data from only one of the devices to post, preferably from the device with the lowest +/- numbers, unless the technical panel gives an individual case approval.
As has been stated many times before, there is actually no technical reason why it would be invalid to take the best results from different GPS's, as long as the results fell within the error margins of the other devices (they are all equally valid), but for simplicity, clarity, administrative convenience, and to try to avoid confusion like that which seems to beset Cocky2, the rules say to use the results from only one of the GPS you use.
Thanks for the straight answer, Daffy. I can appreciate the reasons for having the rules state that only one device is allowed to be utilized when posting results. I certainly would not like to have to go through three or four or five GPS data logs for every single track that that is requested to be analyzed by GPSTC admin. It would be a nightmare. And, I agree with you that there is "no technical reason" why you could not take the best results from any of your GPS's providing that the GPS is of the compliant type.
What I don't think is right is that the majority have been following this "one GPS" rule (and the rest of the rules) while you guys appear to have been ignoring your own rule while quite likely, gaining an advantage while doing so. (I'm assuming that would be the main reason for doing it?)
Are there any other rules in the GPSTC that we have been following that we need not have? Rules for the plebs?
I know a few people who wouldn't mind being kept in the loop!
Ummm......WHAT????
Which rule do you think I or others?? have been ignoring???????
And in what way??????
Select to expand quotesailquik said.. Ummm......WHAT????
Which rule do you think I or others?? have been ignoring???????
And in what way??????
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