The GPS debate

Yes i disagree also john , GPSSS is the first to bring sailors together and to travel at certain destinations to meet up , sail and compete with gps's , even sea breeze was before all of this!!!!!!And yes there are other sites that have similar to ours which have events and so on , and yes the GPSTC has done its good deed for communication from sailor to sailor and get to meet good friends around the country and internationally and sail at good speed spots , that is so true ....

Yes the divisions like u said gives a vast variety of challenges but how many really do it anymore !!!very little !!!! You look at your local team and others and tell me the truth what is the main focus out of all these divisions , let me tell u 2sec and 5x10sec , the occasional other attributes do come up but that is an individual challenge not a team effort , ive been in this game long enough to know what is going on , you know why because i was one of them!!!
Thats why i proposed a change not saying it must be done !!! but to get into a different field of sailing where all divisions count towards something and each individual sailor is counted for there effort for themselves and to improve for themselves...

Now let me quote again that i didnt say the GPSTC is falling apart from friendly revival "hell no "but from the divisions that are not in good use anymore , and sailors are more focused on speed which i totally understand and which the majority are doing and dont really care about other divisions unless a good day comes through with the right water state to do that certain division but again like i said it becomes an individual challenge to yourself not a team effort..

like i said all gps sites are a competitive sport and sailors become competitive towards each other which is understandable and all im proposing is to get into a better field of speedsailing and making it a bit more fair for all classes , i hope u understand that !!!!

Even my friends today " our team " are sailing at my local spot and what do u think they will be doing ..... SPEEDSAILING... and nothing else we as a team dont care if we come first or last on the ladder because there is no one to challenge on the same water and if there was then again let me quote "SPEEDSAILING" and again we wouldnt challenge each other as a team but as individuals to see who will get the best speed !!!!Just like everywhere else which is normal!!!!!

I never said i disapproved of the GPSTC but its going no where when it comes down to TEAM CHALLENGE ... there are a lot of sailors that i see that are in there for fun or they say its all for fun but these certain sailors keep complaining about certain gps devices and people cheating using 2 devices and so on but then again it s for fun RIGHT , if i was in here for fun then i would not care about my own numbers nor anyone elses numbers , now u tell me is that the case...

We are all here for the good of the sport and we are competitive so lets head into that direction and try to make it more positive , a change never hurts anyone and trying doesnt kill u ..

yes that is true certain sailors are good at certain divisions and some of them are good at all but INDIVIDUALLY not a team effort ....Thats why it leads to no where .....But saying that certain body weight , height and shape and etc destroys your performance that is not true this comes down to not paying attention and not feeling or learning what is really needed!!!I used to think like that but certain people or i could say good friends with good knowledge have opened my horizon a lot .A small guy can be just as quick as the big guy , and an over weighted guy can be just as quick as the smaller guy ..What i have seen a lot especially in slalom equipment that sailors dont know how to tune and most of all have the knowledge and feeling to fix up there mistake in tuning , you will be surprised as i was once like that but i started to learn how a sail should work and how should it be tuned and then once u have mastered that then u will see a great leap in performance which u would have never thought that this could be possible and start matching the top guys no matter what size u are!!!!
Apparently Dave White should be getting his ass kicked in all types of sailing from speed to wave but thats not the case for a huge man , he knows how to tune and knows what needs to be done !!!So all u sailors out there that think to themselves i am slow and i cant be better and etc is just a mind F##k , feel , learn and understand how to tune ,its not just rig the sail tighten the batterns so the crinkles are gone and put the recommended DH and OH and that is it , if u have that mind set then u will get no where ....Rigging the right equipment to a certain condition is a must and dont fall into a trap using certain types of gear which is not suited for that kind of sailing and will destroy your performance !!!And most of all time on the water is a must to get anywhere better ...Look at some of the top guys in your local area and watch them sail and see how there board flys out the water in control watch there stance , look at there sail how it is working and so on and i dont think if u came up to them and ask for advice that they will say no!!!
How many guys here that ive taught to tune and cracked the 40kts pretty quickly but before that they couldnt even come close it and mind u all of them are different in weight , height and body shape , the smallest guy we have here weighs in about 75 kg but is so close now to us bigger guys which is an achievement and i feel so happy for him and still if he was to jump onto newer gear then he would for sure start kicking ass..

And its not just about kicking other sailors ass thats the least of it but flying across the water properly tuned properly setup opens a new experience and more fun to sail when u dont have to struggle anymore ....

As for the team challenge i will not comment anymore because answers are not getting answered it just keeps going around in circles leading to no where , i love it but i reckon a change is needed...

Stroppo, No one could argue that the CST isn't playing the "TEAM CHALLENGE", #5 Internationally and #1 In Aus, at the moment for 2016, is testament to that. Good team strategy, skill and dedication of team members is reaping your rewards.

To follow on from Pierre; It is unlikely that the GPSTC will be all things to all people. There will always be those for whom it ticks most of the boxes, and those for whom it just doesnt quite meet their needs. Changing the GPSTC requires the will of the majority. Given most of the competitors are 'silent' on the issue, it maybe difficult to determine what the majority actually prefers. To me it would seem wiser to leave the GPSTC format as is, but make use of Dylans' great work on ka72 and set up separate GPSTC 'spin offs' that are applicable to the spot and/or the sailor.

For me, GPSTC is much more than the speed divisions, in fact they are almost irrelevant. I am not ever going to have a diabetic incident with the amount of jelly beans I get. But I do enjoy sailing with a team and the camaraderie, often disguised as sledging, it entails. (A great day for me is not so much how well I sailed, but he story I get to tell at the end of the day and the laughs that go with it.) I have set up two trophy competitions for my local spot that are for individuals. I like to think they are a fun addition to our local sailing scene. They peacefully co exist with GPSTC. I suppose my point is, if the current format of GPSTC isn't measuring up for you, rather than trying to change the GPSTC, with all the angst that would seem to involve, why not take the easier route and look for an alternative format that suits your needs or even make up your own?

And +1 on the thank you to all the volunteers, running all the things GPSwindsurfing around the world.

Pierre is on the money, possibly what he & I have seen is local but by the amount of negative posts here over the last 3 years i'm guessing it isnt.

Gpstc is facing an issue with devices that should be a non issue & is the result of a well intended but flawed format. 2 Sec should never been included, 2 Sec although many focus on it means nothing, it is safe, doesnt take a whole lot of skill just a good gust but due to it's small period has a high inaccuracy, thus when devices such as gt31 suddenly arent available we have a problem. So why keep a category which reasonable devices cant support? Currently it is included I feel for bragging rights, there are those who have posted a high number & want to keep their position in a list that means nothing. You want to speedsail start at 10sec, 250m etc, you can then start to see how you go against best in the world. It's a funny thing as legends in their own mind have bragged all over the world about beating 50knots, they are the fastest but put them in a comp against AA, patrik, bjorn, Finian, Anders & where are they? On a personal/display level it is a useful tool when you use it for tuning though so it is not completely irrelevant to the sport.

The other flaw I see in gpstc format is just that it doesnt promote team participation with the best 2 result thing, how this is addressed im not sure, possibly some sort of handicap system. Unfortunately it was necessary as in the early gps comps guys were being told not to post as it would hurt the average results or elite teams were being floated. But that is nature of team, any other sport it is a performance across all best & worst. Guys claim "team" but how much do you know about your team mates, when was last time you had a bbq or beer away from the beach? Just because there is some feeling of inclusion does not make team, just because there is the element of mutual masturbation (I notice/comment on your post so you will to mine) doesnt make a team. I always wished there was a proper team of close guys here who sail as a team, help eachother out on water etc not just keep going run after run then "how fast you going" which results in someone sailing & sailing so individually they can get best numbers of the day, we did try briefly but it collapsed due to injuries, people moving etc & funnily we copped crap from others instead of hey great thing can I be involved, funny in that we werent exclusive.

I know myself, Pierre & a few others have become a bit disappointed with alot of the crap going on in the challenge, maybe it not happening across all regions but there are those that take it overly serious, those that give others crap for not posting, that would give others crap for not sailing speed kit because you'd rather go jump or waveride, that would give others crap because they didnt focus on a particular category or didnt make themself available. By crap i mean people giving others ** at the beach or online, arguments, exclusion etc. For me at the time running a business & personal crap I decided I would opt out as just dont need it all as id rather enjoy my sailing in what limited time I had, pity & I do wish I had a team to post to.

Gpstc has ruined some guys who used to be what I considered were good sailors, it has for some about sailing by category, which is fine if thats what they want to do, especially as we are all aging & knees & backs give out. But unfortunately it can rub off on others or people start making excuses, im not 90kg & 6'+ so i cant be fast... BULL** look around the world at speedsailors & you will see great very fast sailors who are all shapes/ages/weights/male/female whatever, it's about trying to get better, tuning to suit you (which is difficult if you not pwa spec) & no pigeon holing yourself to a category. Tuning for average sailor is getting harder as gear is really becoming pwa format specific & not suited to our purpose as board widths stay wide for volume, lower leach's get tight for acceleration out of gybe etc.

In the last few years there has been rise of another problem where the long term gpsers (& possibly longer term speed guys like daffy, chris etc) have taken time to help others & it's turned around & bitten them by the "new" prodigy becoming a general d*ck. If you've been helped it's through generosity & a view that if the group improves the individual does too. Remember some people have done hard yards on not the best kit & are a little tired/worn out after 10+ years. So if you lucky enough to get advice on how to speedsail or what kit to buy & you get short cut to going fast be thankful because the person that helped you often didnt. GPS doesnt take a whole lot of skill, not like say great gybing/freestyle/wave riding etc. Give me a fit person that listens, good kit, good conditions & TIME, & they will be running good numbers within a year. What seperates them from the say Pierres is conistency in all conditions particularly as it gets windier & more challenging, this is where the top guys always rise to top. Properly running with the top guys in ALL conditions is where it becomes about skill & that is hard, wannabes should maybe consider that before they start talking **. Over time I have begun to think a little more like those who keep "trade secrets" to themself to remain at top which is pity as it aint me & I know alot of sponsors who notice guys who freely give good advice/help others & they value that more than outright results.

I don't know answer to the problems gpstc faces, im not about to bag it because it is a great thing & I know Pierre feels similar. Thing is there are some issues by design & a few individuals (often the "personalities") who are spoiling the enjoyment for others. These issues can either be ignored & crap will continue to be posted here & participation will continue to reduce apart from those that newly discover gpstc. The personal level stuff will be addressed over time when mob mentality changes or particular individuals drop out because they have no one that will sail with them. Just here in SEQ there have been many friendships/associations end & much mudslinging as a result of gpstc which is sad.

Pierre, I & many others I have spoken to miss when gps was about a bunch of like minded guys that would go sail together regardless of team or anything like that. Who gives a f*** about the numbers, over time people will all get faster anyway. I laugh at the mud slinging on here from guys across the other side of country who have no idea & are just looking for excuses... have you ever sailed with Brad or Leo or Chris L & seen that these guys are world class sailors with results not just on gps (whatever gps), have you sailed with Cocky Pete & seen him out first thing on long board then sailing all day stopping only for lunch... no to any of these things?... well shut up as you make yourself SEEM like a d*ck, I did laugh at the most recent tirade of it though. I think these guys are good yard sticks, dont talk crap about them go how can I match them, & even if you do on a particular day dont talk crap about it, you may just have got lucky gust or they werent trying or werent 100%.

So the community can either stick it's head in the sand & live an illusion or address the small issues & have a change of mentality/curb the behaviour of the few. Not saying something doesnt make it better. If this happens I think alot of people would return to posting & certainly I would be involved.

nah not at all firie, i love gps & speedsailing. Just putting in 2 cents as there are alot who dont & also walk away (though most stop posting instead of leave). I'd love to see gpstc be super successful & continue to grow. I had given it away but why, I still gps sail (same goes for a certain speed event that we used to attend which we felt skunked at the last time we met, wouldnt it just be better if the issues werent there?). As I said im not bagging gpstc or those who thanklessly put their time & effort into it. But I do think continual assessment is good to make something better. Beer & catch up sounds great, same with anyone, we all doing the same thing & chasing the same thing.

GPS is a strange thing, how many years have we been doing it yet there is no state or national speed titles? Why? Let's see the bulls*** when it's level, fair & there is no where to hide with excuses.

I was thinking about an another idea .... how about and tell me what u think and people please reply i know there are quite a few who want to reply !!!! how about keep the TEAM CHALLENGE for the sailors who want to be in a team and get rid of the individual ranking for each division what we have at the moment and instead put in new divisions STRICTLY SPEEDSAILING RELATED with the spot record and beating your PB at these certain spots or anywhere within the divisions that are presented and to make it fair for all , divide the sailors into 3 categories as i wrote above before and also make an event page to spice up the action !!!So you get both of best worlds , so u can sign up to be in a team or sign up individually for the speedsailing or u can do both the choice is yours and have it all on one site ...
I reckon this will make a huge step forward and not always stuck in the past , a boost is needed now and if donations is need it to be done then lets do it .
I would like to hear from the admins what they think about this idea and of course YOU GUYS because without us nothing will happen and it will bring in the two great categories which no one has and i reckon it will be effective and very useful around the world !!!

I like gpstc as it is ! I never had negative feedback or feelings from fellow competitors from any team, only help and encouragement. I think it will be very difficult to change it' s format because there are too many members and the more you have the more different opinions. With a bit of luck we will sort out the approved device issue soon. I also understand people that want to customize their categories/challenges. For this they can use groups in KA72, which are very flexible and easy to set up, all you need is a bunch of friends that agree with your choices.

Ok i think you guys that are replying are not reading my post carefully or dont understand it , im getting a good feeling that u guys are pushing me and others away and to go to other sites for my needs which these sites dont have , i dont have my needs but giving an option .....

ive been looking at other sites and this is what i find , which there is no problem so that there is no misunderstanding , GPSSS is mainly based on 5x10 that is there main scoring system , yes u do have other divisions in there but that is irrelevant to its purpose and to do something different like ive mentioned u have to do an event which is great but u always have to do an event to setup which is a bummer !!!KA72 is mainly based on the divisions of the GPSTC thats there scoring system so again to do something like i mentioned u have to do an event ...

And all these wonderful websites are good to there purpose ....

And what i am proposing AGAIN is not to get rid of the GPSTC format BUT to add on side by side a pure division for speedsailing "SPOT RECORDS" and as above that i have mentioned to make it a fair competition for all sailors ...

I dont understand why are u so threatened by it and why does this disturb u so much , it does not get rid of the orignal setup of GPSTC SO whats the problem !!!!

So you can on that day post your results on the TC and also in the next box post your say 250 - 500m or what ever division "within pure speedsailing" in the next box and have a good chat about how was it to sail and condition wise and how well did u tune for that certain division , heck u can put your 2 sec in as a division if that tickles your fancy , options are always open ...

I would love to see someone set a spot record and when a good day presents itself again or on that day then go and challenge it .

So this ends up being not a certain sailor who is the fastest in there state or or country but fastest on that certain spot and location ..

And these other sites do not provide this unless u do an event and u have to get all the participants to join to do that which in a short while u will get fed up in doing this !!!And there is nothing complex about doing this and putting it as a add on for recognition at first hand just like the GPSTC.

I read a comment above putting a 100km time competition , yeah great that would be good for the guys who want to do that and set it up in the GPSTC format but that has got nothing to do with speedsailing so lets get back to the point and understand what i am saying ....
And also that there are so many participants now and all have different opinions and that we cant agree on anything , well thats simple if u dont like this sort of format then dont do it , no harm done you will stick to what u like doing and it is available ,,,SO what is the problem!!!!!

Im still waiting for the admin to access this and see if something like this can be done and how many guys are willing to do this and to communicate on a civil matter , not telling me or others where to go ...........

Making changes to the challenge isnt as simple as waving a wand, someone may have to do a lot of work to implement changes. I think thats why people may be suggesting to look at other already existing web sites and competitions.

Personally i have always liked the idea of some sort of handicap competition running in parallel, so the same scores are used but some formula that relates to your previous scores (like a golf handicap) is used to bring everyone back together. But I havent been able to come up with a formula that would seem reasonable (unless you start to take into account things like the spot and conditions).

When I first started I always posted an extra number, the fun factor, scale of 1 to 10. Stopped after a while but maybe thats what we need. Was it a top ten day ;-)

The person who has the most fun wins.

I have met more windsurfers through the GPSTC than I had in the previous 20+ years of sailing, and some of the friendliest ones are not even in the same team as me ;-) One day I may even get to some of the spots outside of WA but even here I have sailed at lots of new locations because of this comp (and bought more equipment than I ever owned before).

If you are not happy set your comp up in KA72!
We have both GPSTC and the Budgy Cup which has Scratch and handicap divisions and it is working great!