I've been frustrated for some time seeing the kites at my spot sailing in 10-11 knots and me drooling and waiting for 13-14 knots to come up. So I've been considering a Super Light Wind board to plane in 10-11 knots conditions. But with what board, and with what sail size/type/brand?
I'd love to hear from those who've got some experience buying and sailing light wind gear.
I was looking into this so far:
- JP Pro SLW? (165 l, 92cm, fin 56cm)
Or the brand-new
- Fanatic Falcon Lightwind? (159 l, 90cm, fin 50cm)
Which sail would provide great low-end power?
- Maui Sails TR2016 (Can get it new for ? price!)
or
- Gun Sails GS-R 2017 (Would need it shipped from Europe!)
...Or what else would do the job at a somewhat reasonable price?
And more importantly, what size sail will get me planning in ~10 knots? 9.5, 10 or 11? (I'm 85kg for 187cm)
To provide a bit of context, I'm a Lake Michigan windsurfer (USA). This is fresh water sailing 6 months of the year (too cold otherwise) but it's pretty much like the ocean: flat most days or 6 foot swell, punishing shorebreak, 10-15c degree water! Past 15-16 knots the chop is too strong for a SLW but manageable with a modern freeride. At 20 knots and above, swell and sideshore wave conditions.
Been windsurfing in and out since the late 70's (I'm in my early 50's).
My stuff so far:
- Naish Starship 100 l, Sailworks Revo 5.7 & 5.0 (Sailing in 18-28 knots in chop and wave conditions)
- SB AtomIQ 124 l, Ezzy Lion3 8.5, Ezzy Cheetah 7.5 & 6.5 (Sailing in 13-20+ knots in flat and moderate chop)
Thanks!
Greg
(ah, the never ending question 
)
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the modern answer seems to be foiling
for now it seems too new and too expensive in windsurfing
buddy kite foils with a 20 meter kite in next to no wind
when he does that , only he and I are on the water
i will be out with a Mistral Equipe 2 XR carbon and either an 8.x (8.4 race or 8.5 SPF) or 10 meter sail
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also have a JP SLW92 which I use in light winds, but not in 10 knots
i am after all over 100 kilos 
at 85 kilos with an 11 meter sail you should be able to plane in about 10 knots
www.07techno.com/windsurfing_calculator/
is it worth the investment ??
(also does NOT schlogg well and BIG sail is HEAVY when wind drops - less FUN)
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could you find an old longboard like mine and use it with your Ezzy 8.5 ??
.
in around 2012 I wrote a post on early planing - in light, light winds
guess I need to update it now ...
joewindsurfer.blogspot.ca/2012/03/early-planing.html
i go out in light, light winds when there is NO ONE - for the adventure and exercise
I weigh the same as you, sail on a lake and my 115L Naish Starship starts planning in 11-12 knots of wind, using my 6.8 Goya Eclipse Power Wave sail and a 38cm freeride fin. Since you already are dialed into your Starship 100L board, the 115L model is pretty much identical, but with more volume, slightly longer and wider. But I don't think the 115L will plane any earlier than 11 knots of wind, unless you put a 7.0 sail on it. The 115L says it can take up to a 7.5 sail.
But you already have an Atom 124L, so that's more volume than the 115L Starship.
Joe Windsurf:
Yep! Chasing more planing time! There's a used Mistral Equip II for sale in my area for $1,000 USD. It probably would be a good choice to move around when no one is around, but I think in that case I prefer drinking a beer and watch a game. ...Speed is my medicine! 
Foiling is a cool idea and I'd probably go learn it on some rental gear somewhere before risking to wreck +$4,000 USD worth of my own equipment. I'm also looking for this to become affordable! So that's a plan for a more distant future. But thanks for sharing the gear calculator, your vids and your perspective.
Magic Ride:
i can get the SB 124 l + Lion3 8.5 planing in 13 knots and get it going through 11 knots lulls I'd say, but no less. Anytime I'm on the water in 12-13 knots, I could get a couple of good runs and the rest of the time i would schlogg around chasing that puff of air because the wind is fluky in my area. What doesn't help is that I'm a lazy sailor: I pump only when I'm desperate! Even with a 48cm fin, I found that the SB Atom 124 is "sticking" and is taking time and effort to release... would a SLW present similar symptoms?
With the 100 l this is no longer an issue as I don't take it out in less than 17-18 knots. Maybe I should just try it with a 7.5 and a 38cm fin to see what that does... Could I get it to go in 12-13 kt? No matter what, that's probably my limit for waterstart a 7.5 and I cannot see uphauling that sail on a 100 l.
I was reading in this forum a few posts talking about how much a SLW board was a revelation for some sailors and dramatically increased the number of occasions they had to spend with a smile on the water. That's what attracted me to the idea of a modern Lightwind board. I'm lucky to live and work 12 min away from my launch, but days in sub-13 knots are quite frequent, whereas +15 knots days when i am available are no so.
Cheers!
I think to plane early you will need a SLW or similar and I would probably go for a 8.5m race sail or other light leeched sail such as the NP Helium. I recently used my 8.5m race sail (severne raceboard)on my big slalom board (128lt) and put it right forward in the mast track and was surprised how effective it was in light airs. However it did feel and showed on GPS it was a couple of knots slower in the top end but did get on the plane early and you could basically pump through the lulls.
The new ultra light Patrik hollow boards are your best bet if money is no object.
Had a go of the 130 litre,80.5 cm wide board with a 7.5m and 47 fin. Felt really good and the sound is really nice.
It will get you going earlier than any other board due to its reduced weight. Approx one to one and a half kilo lighter.
The new Simmer race sails are light too. An 8.6m should be best. There's a 140 litre as well
FrenchToast,
Yeah I don't think you would be able to get your 100L Starship planing in 12-13 knots with a 38cm fin, with a 7.5 sail. I think you would need more volume with that sail size. Plus a 38cm fin might be too large for your 100L as well. I tried a 46cm fin just for kicks on my 115L Starship and it didn't perform well at all, so I left it as my 38cm fin being my largest used on my 115L.
French Toast: most of your inquiry is null or void when you make the request /suggestion
"at a reasonable cost"
you failed led to post your weight, large diff between 150 and 200 pounds.
11kts is 12.6 mph.
you would need the most specialist light wind board, and as suggested a race type sail with 99 cams to approach your 11kts.
I think you would need need to spend gobs of money, and the 11kts still won't work.
this minimum wind speed question that puts gear in the equation, comes up frequently, I find some of the answers very unrealistic on planing speed.
when the wind is 10 or less, I'm happy to cruise around on my windsup , YMMV with no expectation to plane, and enjoy the scenery.
using a wide board, as the Rocket Wide, size, ..your weight again..115 or so, and a 8.0 would close the gap without a serious effect on your spending.larger sails mean 490 mast, and long boom, this Daquan weight addition.
Select to expand quoteforceten said..
French Toast: most of your inquiry is null or void when you make the request /suggestion
"at a reasonable cost"
you failed led to post your weight, large diff between 150 and 200 pounds.
11kts is 12.6 mph.
you would need the most specialist light wind board, and as suggested a race type sail with 99 cams to approach your 11kts.
But Magic said he can get going with a 6.8 and 115L board in 11 knots. He's 85 kg.
Wind was up today around 10-12 knots. Wind Didn't really fill in all the way liked I hoped, but I got out planning here and there on my 115L Starship using my 6.8 sail again with my 38cm fin, and was able to water start in that breeze too. If the wind was filled in consistently, I would have been full on planning on most every run. But in that breeze, I do have to jumpstart the plane a little bit with a couple of pumps with the boom and that seems to get me right on the plane in 11-12 knots of wind. 13 knots of wind, no pumping necessary on the 6.8 sail and 38cm fin.
Before I purchased the 115L Naish Starship from "Big Winds", I asked them if they thought the board would plane in 11-12 knots of wind, with a 6.8 sail, and they felt pretty confident it would, and it sure does.
Select to expand quoteforceten said..
French Toast: most of your inquiry is null or void when you make the request /suggestion
"at a reasonable cost"
you failed led to post your weight, large diff between 150 and 200 pounds.
@forceten: Good catch on the weight. Thx for being this honest! 
Noticed this topic has obviously been discussed many times...
2 options to lower my planing threshold:
A - Get more out of my 124 l /8.5 kit by better rigging/tuning, and improving on my skills and efficiency on the water
B - Get a more powerful engine (sail) and an "accessible" board to support it
100 l >17 kn,
124 l in 14-18 kn,
SLW for most days between 11-15 kn on flat water.
85kg/187lb for 187cm/6'2". Following most gear calculators, this means I need a 11.5 in 10 kn. I don't want to handle this big and a 10.0 seems to be a handful already. (So, here is how to lower one's expectation!)
Finally, I mentioned "at reasonable cost" in the context of race boards, formula boards and foil kits, all in the $3,500-$4,000 USD range, and race sails that can go well above $1,500.
(Thx PeterMac33 for the tip on the Simmer, and Dean for sail size reco).
Here is a viable scenario (in USD, including discounts):
Fanatic SLW: $1800,
MauiSails TR2016 10.0: $650,
NorthSail gold boom 190-250: $470
MauiSail 520 SDM carbon mast: $550
board bag: $150
total: <$3650. Not cheap, but I can male it a lot worse with the addition of a trailer to carry all that stuff around... 
Cost??
If you already have Ezzy 8.5 than you have mast suitable for Ezzy 9.5? How big is your boom
my feeling is get a early planing board first. Yes a Jpslw however you may be able to pick up a large slalom board on secondhand market or even a older early shape formula board
with an early planing board you can try out the 8.5 ezzy
i see experienced sailers getting away on large slalom boards quicker than I can get going at 100kg on a wood jpslw92
at 85kg the large slalom boards or older style formula boards are a possibility especially if you have active sailing style
cheers Jeff
Select to expand quotejirvin4505 said..
Cost??
If you already have Ezzy 8.5 than you have mast suitable for Ezzy 9.5? How big is your boom
my feeling is get a early planing board first. Yes a Jpslw however you may be able to pick up a large slalom board on secondhand market or even a older early shape formula board
with an early planing board you can try out the 8.5 ezzy
i see experienced sailers getting away on large slalom boards quicker than I can get going at 100kg on a wood jpslw92
at 85kg the large slalom boards or older style formula boards are a possibility especially if you have active sailing style
cheers Jeff
^^^
you can pickup a large slalom board a few years old relatively cheap and then find yourself a grunty sail. With some pumping technique a 80cm wide + slalom board and 8.5m sail should work.
I use a 76cm wide board with an 8m sail and I can pump it on the plane in around 12 knots and keep it going in smaller lulls with an adjustable outhaul, I'm around 80kg.
I use a 8m hot sails Maui GPS sail 2012 (224 boom) its has good bottom end and the sail breathes nicely so good for pumping. You should be able to pickup a used one for around $200. They can also run a skinny mast which makes them smoother in chop.
An old (cheap?) Formula Board is the best device to maximise the light wind planing end realistically.
There is an old saying, that I coined , many years ago.
"To get planing in less than around 15 knots requires the investment of about $1000 per extra knot down to the realistic limit of about 8-9 knots!"
In the light of modern windsurfing gear costs, this is probably somewhat outdated. It may be more like $1500/Kt now.
But an older Formula Board is the absolute maximum for early planing reliably. I have the original 1m wide Starboard Formula board from some time circa 'BC'! 
Team it up with any sail 9m and up, not necessary a cambered one, and you will be in business. In fact, a lighter, easy rotating no cambered sail will probably get you going at least as early as a big cam'd sail and be a lot more pleasant to handle. I usually use an older 8.4m KA Koyote (i'm only 72 Kg), rather than my 9m KA Koncept or, heaven forbid, the 9.8m KA Formula Race I have. Both those sails are too heavy and don't get me going any earlier. Their only advantage is their stability over 15 knots, but when it gets to that I just abandon that kit and get on my slalom stuff anyhow!
Select to expand quoteMrCranky said..forceten said..
French Toast: most of your inquiry is null or void when you make the request /suggestion
"at a reasonable cost"
you failed led to post your weight, large diff between 150 and 200 pounds.
11kts is 12.6 mph.
you would need the most specialist light wind board, and as suggested a race type sail with 99 cams to approach your 11kts.
But Magic said he can get going with a 6.8 and 115L board in 11 knots. He's 85 kg.
I wrote I find some of the answers unrealistic. My weight is less, my 117MOO Custom is awesome , a 7.5 Cheetah, I need closer to 15mph, then on and off the plane. One of the better boards for early planing I have ridden was a Exocet model, can't rember its name.
The subject of early planing involves the wind speed, which can vary on the water offshore , the estimate of it, and the sailers version of planing.
the level of expertise enters the equation, which is Part of the equation, and open for interpretation.
planing on a 115 and 6.8 must involve a expert , much better than me, better technique, or parts of the equation are wrong.
Formula 175
Formula 117
Tabou Rocket 135. Sails were 8.5 Lion, 7.5 Cheetah and now a Custom 7.0, very light weight.
MOO Custom 117
Starship 100
the newer wide thin boards are a reasonable option, they don't work on really large sails for me, over 7.5.
my taste is not for those boards , having time on quite a few.
The Starships are very unusual how early they plane. They look like they need a lot more wind than they really do. They are not thinned out boards like most modern boards today. Most of the volume is stuffed in the middle, in front of the mast track and under the front footstraps, which is perfect for planning early.
Eddy at "BigWinds" did a whole write up on the 100L Starship review at Hood River. He took it out as he saw most others were on 130L boards, and couldn't believe how it did. The Starship he said, "kept right up with the others". I will try to post the link, but it's easy to find. Google, Starship 100L review and the link should come up. The 115L Starship gets out planning even earlier as mentioned above.
Select to expand quoteMagic Ride said..
The Starships are very unusual how early they plane. They look like they need a lot more wind than they really do. They are not thinned out boards like most modern boards today. Most of the volume is stuffed in the middle, in front of the mast track and under the front footstraps, which is perfect for planning early.
Eddy at "BigWinds" did a whole write up on the 100L Starship review at Hood River. He took it out as he saw most others were on 130L boards, and couldn't believe how it did. The Starship he said, "kept right up with the others". I will try to post the link, but it's easy to find. Google, Starship 100L review and the link should come up. The 115L Starship gets out planning even earlier as mentioned above.
I'd like to believe you, I really do, but I don't. 11 knots is seriously not much wind at all. I think you underestimated how much it was blowing.
Thanks for sharing more thoughts. I've been reading a few more posts on the SLW topic and the conclusion is that I think this will change my TOW substantially. So, bring-on that red-hot Falcon!
I get that a formula will put me on a plane sooner if paired with a 11 or 12 meter sail but not sure I can and want to handle that. What's nice about the SLW concept is that they offer 80% of a formula early planning but with only half the skills and efforts. KInda like an oversized freeride.
So, I got to put to rest my not so realistic dream to plane twice the speed of wind in 10 knots for now. If I can get my carcasse moving consistently in 12 knots, I'm happy.
i like the idea of a HSM GPS. They still produce them but custom order only I think. As an alternative, the 10.0 superfreak (mainly Dacron) seems quite light and easy to handle, and I think they rig on RDM 490 which I already have.
Then again a new TR2016 for $600 is hard to pass too...
@Magic Ride,
Funny I bought my Starship from Eddy too! GRest service, advice. Great price too.
For some freeride action from Wisconsin, USA!
Select to expand quoteMrCranky .
I'd like to believe you, I really do, but I don't. 11 knots is seriously not much wind at all. I think you underestimated how much it was blowing.
If you factor 11-12 knots with gusts added to it, that's how it's done. I get planning on the gusts and manage to keep the plane through the 11-12 knot wind range. When the gust drops off, I fall off the wind slightly and give her a few pumps, and I can usually keep it planning. As we all know, the wind is never a consistent 11-12 knots, there are always gusts factored in.
It's all good to get planing and pump through gusts and get a decent sail in 11 or 12 knots on a large slalom board
but on a formula with a 10 or 11 mtr sail you won't just get going, you will be powered up and blasting all over your patch leaving slalom boards, kites and other craft in your wake
if you want some thrills in light winds the answer is very simple. Formula.
and if you get a race sail with lots of cams you will be able to hang on it up to 20knots and your thrills will keep getting bigger
In 10-12 knot winds,short of using a formula board with a 10 metre sail only lightweights ( under 75kg) will get going consistently.
A formula board will kill a large slalom board upwind especially - but I'm not that convinced they actually plane any earlier than a large slalom board especially for lightweights.
I have found in light wind that when I use a sail above 7.5m the improvement in planing threshold is small,though I weigh only 70kg.
My 7.5 gets going around a knot or two earlier than my 7m but when I've owned a 8.6m the improvement in planing threshold is hard to detect,perhaps half a knot or so.
In sub planing conditions i use much less downhaul and outhaul and use a fin around 4-6 cm bigger than recommended. G10 fins flex in sizes above 40cm too much,dumping the power.
A really light boom and mast helps too. Adjustable outhaul is a no,no for me!
With my 71 cm wide Manta / 7.5 with a 44 Sonntag fin I get going in around 11-12 knots but only if I rig the sail full. With standard downhaul twisted off lots,around 13-14 knots.
In wind 8-12 knots better take up hydrofoil kitesurfing. They amaze me in light conditions.
Bigger sails are not really the biggest difference. The Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in very severely and rapidly. For me @72KG, that is around the 7.5 to 8.0m mark. The BOARD and FIN make a much bigger difference, and I am sorry, you are on the wrong track with any kind of large slalom board. You will gain slightly but continue to be frustrated.
The Formula board does not need an 11m or 12m sail for early planing and reaching. They only use huge sails on them for racing so they can go seriously high upwind and very deep downwind. With those sails they are impossible to control on a beam reach in typical planning winds! Remember, they must race upwind and down in less wind than we would be happy to stay planing in on a reach.
The first time I rode the original 1m wide Formula board was on a day when the wind was dying and we had gotten to the point of not being able to plane at all on our large slalom gear, me with a 6.5m sail (which in the early 2000's was the largest sail I would ever consider using!) I drifted into the beach where my friend Martin was also standing with his Starboard Formula, and he offered me a ride with his over 8m or so sail. I declined the sail as it was set up for him and just plugged in my 6.5m with few expectations. I stepped on and was instantly planing! Easy to continue planning on the same rig as I had no hope of planing on a few minutes earlier on a big, light slalom board.
Go Formula Board or forget the whole idea. You probably have already got a sail that will work with it to gain you 3 or 4 knots less wind.
I am surprised nobody has mentioned the ultrasonic yet. It is fantastic board, planes faster than (nearly) any other board (except from a formula by a small margin) and is very fun and easy to control (and even progress on) at least with my 8.6 overdrive (I weigh 75kg). And when the wind picks up you won't get overpowered before the 20 knot mark. This combo is the one I use 70-80% of the season (the other 20-30% being an isonic 107 + ncx 7.0 at 18+ knots). The ultrasonic would be the board I carry with me all the time if I had to keep only one (in fact I did so for several seasons).
Regards
The thing with 10 knots is that you can often get going on small-ish kit, but it feels lack luster and no sensation of power. Over the years, I tried several so called light wind board/sails, including SB FreeFormulas/F-types/Isonic 150 etc and non off them gave me that powered up feeling I get on a full formula board.
I ended up going back to a full formula (an old SB F161 wood). Last summer on a 10 knot day, I rigged both my Warp 11m (rigged up normal) and 9.6m (rigged up for light winds, top clew eyelet etc) and played around to see what the difference was. Early planning was identical. I could sail upwind very slightly better on the 11m, but it was marginal.
Top speed went to the 9.6m by about 2 knots. Every thing just felt much lighter and easier with the 9.6m. You could really feel the extra weight and drag with the 11m, no were near as much fun as the 9.6m.
I concluded that the extra weight of the 11m counter acted any increase in power, giving little if any benefit over the 9.6m. For a bit of sea breeze fun, the 9.6m does the job well. A lot of people say full Formula is technical, and they are correct if you are competing in 20-30 knots winds/rough water, but just for fun in 8-12 knots and flat waters, they are super easy.
I'm around 100kg/195cm.
Select to expand quoteMrCranky said..Magic Ride said..
The Starships are very unusual how early they plane. They look like they need a lot more wind than they really do. They are not thinned out boards like most modern boards today. Most of the volume is stuffed in the middle, in front of the mast track and under the front footstraps, which is perfect for planning early.
Eddy at "BigWinds" did a whole write up on the 100L Starship review at Hood River. He took it out as he saw most others were on 130L boards, and couldn't believe how it did. The Starship he said, "kept right up with the others". I will try to post the link, but it's easy to find. Google, Starship 100L review and the link should come up. The 115L Starship gets out planning even earlier as mentioned above.
I'd like to believe you, I really do, but I don't. 11 knots is seriously not much wind at all. I think you underestimated how much it was blowing.
I would also like to believe you. The original post refers to 10-11kts, Magic Ride, you have increased this to 11--12, from 10 to 12 is a increase of 20% wind speed. We understand gusts are involved, the wind also decreases in lulls , so the figure then could be 8-10, realistic planing , not in my world. An gust increase over 12 starts being promising
some interesting discussion , I find little difference in a 7.5 to 8.5 .
Maybe the 10-11 knot wind range should be 10-15 knot wind range. That's how the 10-11 would fit in the wind forecast here. This seems more reasonable on how meteorologists forecast wind. We all know that the wind is never going to be just 10-11. It's going to have a 12 and a 13 in their and a 9 and an 8 probably too as a lull, and a gust would bring it to 14-16 realistically. At least that's how it works in the USA. It's either light and variable, 5-10, 10-15, 10-20, 15-25 etc. The original wind range listed above would fit under the 10-15 knot chart in the USA. I would think this would be the same in other countries as well. Now perhaps where FrenchToast lives, the wind will consistently stay at a 10-11 knots with some gusts and lulls. But that won't happen in the USA. A 10-11 knot day here would realistically be a 10-15 knot day with gusts and lulls in the equation.
Here we actually do get reports of winds around 20 kph --> ~11 knots
if that number or higher is NOT mentioned, I ain't goin'
when there is not much more than that, it is longboard for me and SUP or windSUP weather for others
20-30 kph (30 - > 16.5 knots) - that's when my JP SLW92 comes out with the 10 meter race sail
20-40 kph means planing weather ... 8.5 for my light carcas of 105+ kilos ...
10-15 knots is 20-30 for us and for me it is still light and so, you are LUCKY to be planing with your Naish
Do any of you guys have the 115L Naish Starship model who would like to elaborate on its early planning? And how early you can get planning?
Select to expand quotesailquik said..
The Formula board does not need an 11m or 12m sail for early planing and reaching. They only use huge sails on them for racing so they can go seriously high upwind and very deep downwind. With those sails they are impossible to control on a beam reach in typical planning winds!
Why limit yourself to mowing the grass on a underpowered formula when you could sail anywhere you want upwind and downwind by using the correct size sail.
Pointing a formula or raceboard deep downwind and going for hugh blast for a few km's is one of my favourite points of sail.
I disagree with not being able to reach on a formula, particularly in light winds (which this thread is about). It is true they don't like to reach in strong winds but very doable and enjoyable in "moderate winds" ie up to 15- 18knts
