Had a chance to demo the 5.2 and 4.8 S1 Pro two weeks ago and am a bit lost for words to describe the improvements Ben has managed to deliver in his latest offering. I have been on S1s since 2011 and have come to expect a notable improvement with each iteration but this year they are something else.
Only got to try them in the bay but over a big range of wind conditions ranging from fluky 15-18 knot on shore to 25 knot cross shore and everything in between. Had the '14 5.2m S1 rigged for a side by side comparison with a demo 5.2m S1 Pro both on a 90 rdm and one lucky team rider's 4.8m S1 pro on a Gorilla mast. Gave them a go on a couple of boards, 80L Nuevo, 84L Nude Chopper, 90L Starboard Flare, 89L JP Freestyle.
The experience left us scratching our heads a how much better, seriously better these sails were compared to last years model, and they were and still are great sails. Best way to describe the improvement is its like going from a 60% carbon mast and aluminium boom to a 100% carbon mast and boom or if you are into road bikes going from an aluminium frame to a quality carbon frame ride.
First thing you notice is how light they are in the bag, then how much lighter they feel carrying them down to the beach but its when you first pump on to the plane and hook in that the expletives start flowing.
On the beach they appear quite flat compared to the '13 and '14 S1s but on the water power and wind range is up noticeably from last year but the weightless feel, acceleration and instant but controlled response to gusts is what will leave you scratching your head.
These things must be a bugger to mass produce, each panel appears to be individually CNC printed with carbon fibre ribbon to get the loads precisely distributed and flex where its needed. The fibres lined up so well between panels we initially thought that the whole sail had been printed in one hit but they look like individually shaped and printed panels. I guess you get more control over sail shape that way.
I'm a relative light weight at 70kg so thought I would give the 4.8m S1 Pro a go on a 370 Redline after trying it on a 400, it definitely worked for me which was a bonus. Softened up the sail quite a bit but not too much. Had no complaints on the 400 mast but much preferred it on the 370. Probably stick with the 400 if you weight anything more or use a quad. The 4.8m worked so well for me I'm ditching my '13 5.3m and just going with the 4.8m as my biggest sail this year!!!
Outline looked very similar to '14 with the top 3 battens shifted up a little and the sail a bit taller than the '14 model.Ben has really come up with something special with these full CNC printed sails, I wouldn't be surprised to see the other big manufacturers following suit. Hopefully they can scale up the manufacturing process to keep costs down so us mere mortals can afford them ;-)
The Blade Pro has also gone through a similar transformation so if you like a more locked in power feel that might be worth a try.
Some pics below:
Yes, we hear this every year.
It is amazing that every year, every review promotes how much better the sales have developed.
Yet looking back at my 2004 wave sails, there really isn't any noticeable performance benefits compared to all the other sails I have used since ... 2006, 2008, 2014 years.
I would seriously consider splasing the upgrade cash on 2 weeks in Maui for 14 days of sailing vs an 'upgrade' in sails.
Select to expand quotewind012 said..
...
It is amazing that every year, every review promotes how much better the sales have developed.
.....
An innocent typo ?
or a subliminal message ?
Very clever, because whichever way I read it it makes perfect sense.
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..
An innocent typo ?
or a subliminal message ?
Very clever, because whichever way I read it it makes perfect sense.
haha .... classic! ;)
Select to expand quotewind012 said..
Yet looking back at my 2004 wave sails, there really isn't any noticeable performance benefits compared to all the other sails I have used since ... 2006, 2008, 2014 years.
If a 2.4kg 4.8 S1 hasn't any noticeable performance benefits compared to your 2004 wave sails, i will eat my thongs.
Had to use my '13 S1 in the waves yesterday. Not very satisfactory after having used the S1 Pro :'(
Waiting, waiting, waiting......
@jh2703 - price generally based on ability and how much you buy from my observations to date. Needless to say they are more expensive than last year's model, maybe a distributor can chime in with a RRP?
Select to expand quoteRelapse said..
Had to use my '13 S1 in the waves yesterday. Not very satisfactory after having used the S1 Pro :'(
Waiting, waiting, waiting......
@jh2703 - price generally based on ability and how much you buy from my observations to date. Needless to say they are more expensive than last year's model, maybe a distributor can chime in with a RRP?
the better you sail the cheaper they are ??
I've got a 4.8m s1 pro, I haven't used it enough to give a real opinion yet. But so far so good, feels really nice.
I can't remember exact prices I try to forget them as soon as I walk out of the shop... But the pro is around the same price or slightly cheaper than a north wave sail (expensive) and the regular s1 was to be around the same price as last years 850-950ish?
If you're in melbourne the Zu had them last time I was in there so would be worth going in and having a chat.
As much as these look and go awesome I would say the 2015 S1 (non pro?) would be pretty similar in performance if were looking to save a bit of money/ planning on putting it over the reef regularly.
But if anyone sees me around on the beach I'm more than happy to do a gear swap for 10 minutes and you can see what you think!
Select to expand quotejh2703 said...
How much are they???
Cheaper than 16 boards, a house in Gerroa, phantom2 and a Nickleback greatest hits cd..
Jas, of all people should understand how much new toys can increase your windsurfing experience, even if they don't have a Goya sticker on them!.. Saying that, not everyone will be able to extract the maximum potential out of these sails.
Plenty of cheaper sails around, could spend a lot less for a standard xply SWAT that's about as light as your 3 batten..
*biased
Select to expand quotebarn said..Blah, Blah, Blah!
Barn, Since you work for Severne you of all people should be able to tell the potential consumer the RRP. In the end it's theses people that will make the brand you work for grow, Not the team riders you give cheap sails to. Why all the smoke and mirrors? Are they going to be like the Enigma booms, No one but team riders are going to see them this year?
....Yes I went to Goya for this year, Why? Because they went to length to send me demo sails to try, Told me how much they were and even offered me a super deal if I got a quiver.....Yes me, a mere mortal.....I didn't need to be a great sailor to get a good deal.
And by the way, It's 6 boards and a Kenny Rodgers CD
I think Severne may be snookering themselves with the pro models.
First it was :
Severne Sails - they're good
Now it is :
Severne Sails - Holy Sh!#
So where can they go in 2016 ?
Severne Sails - like better than like a gazillion buckets of awesomeness ??
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..
Severne Sails - like better than like a gazillion buckets of awesomeness ??
So, how many olympic size swimming pools is that?
Select to expand quotejh2703 said..barn said..Blah, Blah, Blah!
Barn, Since you work for Severne you of all people should be able to tell the potential consumer the RRP. In the end it's theses people that will make the brand you work for grow, Not the team riders you give cheap sails to. Why all the smoke and mirrors? Are they going to be like the Enigma booms, No one but team riders are going to see them this year?
....Yes I went to Goya for this year, Why? Because they went to length to send me demo sails to try, Told me how much they were and even offered me a super deal if I got a quiver.....Yes me, a mere mortal.....I didn't need to be a great sailor to get a good deal.
And by the way, It's 6 boards and a Kenny Rodgers CD
Potential consumers can pick up a phone, or drop by their local. Apart from winding up the resident SB snipers, posting RRP is not really smiled upon, no smoke and mirrors.
www.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Help/ForumRules.aspx
* Do not post prices, price lists, sale brochures, bargains, "stock clearance" etc.
* Do not tease the music tastes of other forum users.
Definitely an interesting approach Ben has taken with the 'Pro' model this year, car companies have been doing it successfully for years so Severne might be on to something.
Get customers drooling over an AMG, HSV, SLX, etc to get them into the show room, let them have a tyre kick and a test drive of the performance model then point them to the model they can actually afford. Not sure how many would opt for a base model when they could afford the top of the range, personally I'm all for choice.
Came across this interesting snippet recently
According to the figures, Volkswagen-owned French brand Bugatti’s benchmark-settingVeyron supercar makes a loss of 4,617,500 euros ($6.69 million) per vehicle.
Hope Severne aren't losing that much per sail but I imagine the margins on the S1 Pro aren't going to make them a whole lot given the involved construction process. If you can afford and realise the potential of premium products then they are actually a pretty good value proposition given the loss leader model. Even if you can't get the full potential out of a 'Pro' model there is something reassuring about not being able to blame your gear for holding you back.
With failing knees, back and limited talent I'll take any small advantage going 
. I make a point of trying everything I can lay my hands on, would hate to discover I could have been on something better....
Lots of great gear out there at the moment with wave sailing making a bit of a resurgence, couldn't believe the action from Pozo and Tenerife. Would find it hard to believe that it is all just talent. More forgiving and predictable gear has really helped me improved over recent years.
Boys on Goya gear were ripping at 13th on Sunday in pretty average conditions, might have me a little try on those too...
One would think RRP would be a legitimate question and answer in a gear review forum. It's something I'd want to know as a consumer.
.....It's not like your flogging a 2 for 1 offer?
This sucks .... the retailers on seabreeze who happily promote their products cannot even answer a simple question about the price.
Why would they avoid helping with an obvious important piece of info? how much?
First rule about severne sail prices -we dont talk about sail prices
Second rulet about severne sail prices - when people ask about sail prices, tell em to bugger off
I guess the lack of response is a simple justification to be annoyed with the severne sails retailers and hence stick with my NP gear and hence save money anyway without having to buy new masts anyway.
Plenty of pros perform well on NP and Maui Sails and etc etc
Select to expand quotewind012 said..
I guess the lack of response is a simple justification to be annoyed with the severne sails retailers and hence stick with my NP gear and hence save money anyway without having to buy new masts anyway.
Plenty of pros perform well on NP and Maui Sails and etc etc
Wind012 has a point, but was worth the wait for my enigma carbon wave boom, and recently blade pros and s1 pro.
I take my hat off to this Aussie sail maker and Aussie company which is now making some pretty good gear in my view as well as the competitors
As my father always said, 'son there are talkers and there are doers' Keep it up Ben
Select to expand quotejh2703 said..
One would think RRP would be a legitimate question and answer in a gear review forum. It's something I'd want to know as a consumer.
.....It's not like your flogging a 2 for 1 offer?
Yeah but you're not a consumer, you're a team rider! Plus didn't I already tell you the ballpark price months ago? You know the answer already, so I reckon you're just stirring the pot.
That's why I replied to your price comment..
Anyway, I think it's fair that rrp's are kept off the forum, the gear review section is one of the most interesting forums on here, and it'd be great to see more reviews posted. I think there's a happy medium between unbiased reviews, a few shops posting some fresh products and a few riders just showing off some cool kit. But I think we can all agree it's best that the posts are angled more towards 'reviews' and less towards 'advertisements'.. Of course those lines get blurred, focusing simply on the product might help keep the balance.
It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and offer all kinds of unhelpful opinions (I should know, I'm as guilty as anyone!). Who can blame shops, distributors and manufactures for not engaging in SB forums when one slip threatens to cause a flame war!..
I'll leave it, I'm not in retail.. The shops have their own websites, working phones, and functioning doors. There's a helpful banner on my screen from a shop advertising 2015 gear, and a phone number, sailors can give them a call and support the shops that support this forum..
Personally I don't want to post something like the rrp, don't ask me, I've clocked off, and I'm logged on to read and chat a bit of **** about sailing, and then I'm gonna watch Bono and Milsy argue in teh Heavy Weather forum..
Select to expand quoteballina said..
I take my hat off to this Aussie sail maker and Aussie company which is now making some pretty good gear in my view as well as the competitors
isn't most of the gear made in just a few factories anyway? eg that sail factory in china and sri lanka, and the boards in cobra/thailand, china factory (thommen) and that middle east or african place (forget the name where AHD boards used to be or still are made) .. so making the gear is pretty easy.
the design & engineering aspects are probably not too difficult as boards & sails are not rocket science and just manufactured in the factories above, however the key business difficulties would be:
a) brand (probably most important) - is their some link with starboard support?
b) balancing warranty risk vs construction durability/weight
Select to expand quotewind012 said..ballina said..
I take my hat off to this Aussie sail maker and Aussie company which is now making some pretty good gear in my view as well as the competitors
isn't most of the gear made in just a few factories anyway? eg that sail factory in china and sri lanka, and the boards in cobra/thailand, china factory (thommen) and that middle east or african place (forget the name where AHD boards used to be or still are made) .. so making the gear is pretty easy.
the design & engineering aspects are probably not too difficult as boards & sails are not rocket science and just manufactured in the factories above, however the key business difficulties would be:
a) brand (probably most important) - is their some link with starboard support?
b) balancing warranty risk vs construction durability/weight
It amazes me how some people that do a rec sport as high tech as windsurfing with the newest technologies in materials, that use major principles like hydro and aerodynamics still have absolutely no idea.
And still have this idea that somewhere in the world there are these 2 magical places where they have a machine where you just push a button and brand new windsurfing gear pops out the end ever 2 minutes, and this all happens while a few guys sit back drinking coffee and read the paper. Tell the people sewing these sails all day or sand fibreglass all day to get this gear as spot on as it is that there job is super easy, if you have ever made anything in your whole life apart from you breakfast you would know it's not pretty easy.
And designing this gear is super easy, that's why everyone is good at it not just about 10 or 20 people in the whole world.
OMG it surprises me how these people figure out that a car only works when you put fuel in it.
Select to expand quoteP.C_simpson said..
It amazes me how some people that do a rec sport as high tech as windsurfing with the newest technologies in materials, that use major principles like hydro and aerodynamics still have absolutely no idea.
Designing a windsurfing board or sail is not rocket science. Try doing some engineering work on some defence equipment (which is comparable to design work on a rocket at NASA) and it will put your board shaping engineering challenges into perspective.
Select to expand quotewind012 said..P.C_simpson said..
It amazes me how some people that do a rec sport as high tech as windsurfing with the newest technologies in materials, that use major principles like hydro and aerodynamics still have absolutely no idea.
Designing a windsurfing board or sail is not rocket science. Try doing some engineering work on some defence equipment (which is comparable to design work on a rocket at NASA) and it will put your board shaping engineering challenges into perspective.
well go ahead rocket boy start designing some good gear then - sell it for a bargain price - A pig sail and board is easy to design - I have had a couple in the last 14 years
Were you involved in designing NASA's record space shuttles (Need Another Seven Astronauts) - some of them were well engineered coffins
