Taken from the Kiting forums. I don't know if this affects the Scarbs sailors as I haven't sailed up that way but windsurfers are classed "high risk" beach users and will be subject to the same exclusions.
Figured it was worth mentioning. Select to expand quoteueberqwerty said...
It sppears that the City of Stirling is copying The City of Joondalup with their
"Beach Recreational Activity Policy" 
They eying to impose restrictions on kitesurfing (and others) for their beaches. If they go ahead, restrictions are anticipated to be implemented on 1/12/2011. Have a look at:
www.inmycommunity.com.au/http://www.stirling.wa.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/103FC67C-D0B0-4609-8526-66BCC836BBCD/0/CouncilMinutes13September2011.pdf
page 337 onwards and policy, page 342 and 343.
Exclusion Zones:
1) North of Colin St drain to Reserve St
2) Starting on south end of car park 3 going to south of Trigg boat ramp
Kind off kills the City Beach to Trigg downwinder and makes us get off at crowded Brighton
If you read the pdf document It bans kitesurfing AND windsurfing in the exlusion zones from October to April.
This will ban us from windsurfing where we currently windsurf at Scarborough... North of the drain on brighton beach...
This will force us into the Kiting area.
The goal is to reduce conflict among water users... I cant see how this will reduce conflict.
How will they enforce it? Water police?
For those not interested in sifting through the 377 page "Ordinary meeting of Council" here is a taste:
From memory WWA informed us of the public meeting earlier this year on this subject. Big ups to them for the warning.
If you want more information or to VOICE yourself you can contact City of Stirling Admin here:
City of Stirling Administration Centre
(08) 9345 8555
I'm guessing you'll want to direct your arguments to the C.o.S. Reporting Officer: Manager Recreation and Leisure Services.
TBH I don't really care I don't sail Scabs all that often but I remember there being a few of you. Surely enough to warrant C.o.S. changing their policy. Personally it doesn't make any sense to me. People aren't going to surf, swim or jetski when its howling and perfect for wind sports. This policy sounds like it has been fashioned by non-beach users who don't understand the dynamic flow of beach use.
There has been no talk of banning windsurfing anywhere in WA for the last 25 years.
Until kiting came along and some of them caused fkn havoc..... and now we are dragged down too. Thanks very much fellas [}:)][}:)][}:)]
Now from reading that stuff above, it appears it has been voted in by council already, so if we have a sook will it be any good? I doubt it.
WWA are you onto it as a body, or should we send individual complaints or what?
For whinges (I'm sending one) the council admin plus all those voting is as below:
stirling@stirling.wa.gov.au; ceo@stirling.wa.gov.au; leonie.getty@stirling.wa.gov.au; jason.robbins@stirling.wa.gov.au; bill.stewart@stirling.wa.gov.au; elizabeth.re@stirling.wa.gov.au; stephanie.proud@stirling.wa.gov.au; sharon.cooke@stirling.wa.gov.au; terry.tyzack@stirling.wa.gov.au; robin.furlong@stirling.wa.gov.au; rod.willox@stirling.wa.gov.au; paul.collins@stirling.wa.gov.au; david.michael@stirling.wa.gov.au; Giovanni.Italiano@stirling.wa.gov.au
Thanks for the emails Mark. I'll be compiling my own re educating letter and sending each councilors an individual copy.
I urge all other local sailors to do the same and ask for a reply.
WWA submitted it's position a year ago on the draft plan for redevelopment of Scarborough. Stating our reasons for retaining the existing windsurfing area.
I contacted the relevant person at C of S yesterday but didn't get to speak and will try again today. I will post when I have more details.
Lao Shi thanks for the P.M and nice to know WWA is onto it.
What makes me fume is the vagure references to consulting the water sports users' organisations and listenign to them and incorporating their ideas into the policy.
What a load of w^nk, they wanted to get rid of windsurfers and kiters so they "listened" to the groups they always were going to "listen" to and ran with the plan they always intended.
Consultation to give the impression there was a "process".
Any windsurfing lawyers here....?
How about a challenge - they have acted ultra vires as the activity is predominantly conducted offshore, and only briefly in the City of Stirling's jurisdiction during launching and coming home. 
here is the thread from over a year ago.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Western-Australia/Scarbrough-Beach-Mgnt-Plans/?page=1
This is disappointing
AS a scarbs wave sailor of 20 years i will miss this spot. The bank seemed to set up just right to catch any generated wind swell on a mid to high tide in the arvo. Meaning that we were wave sailing on no swell days.
I Have had many a classic head high session there when others reported no swell or had to head to lanno.
Unfortunately the kite chaos has just gotten worse over the years - i was getting multiple kite strikes / board impacts every summer -and in increasing numbers.Last years getting wrapped in lines incident was a beauty.
Of course dropped kites and lines through the entire break ended up happening on an hourly basis.
It was only a matter of time until we lost the access (which we fought hard to gain many years ago - with the council) - frankly i am amazed it lasted as long as it did.
The tide of kite madness cannot be stopped - even the WAKSA crew cant control them. But good for them they managed to cover a rather large insurance payout over an incident at Brighton recently.
Scarbs on the windy days last summer was starting to attract some pretty solid numbers of windsurfers on the water - maybe the newer boards were making it more fun and easier for everyone to sail.
RIP scarbs - i will miss you.
If scarbs area does get shut down, where do you see the like of yourself Matt and the other scarbs locals sailing ?? Up nearer Trigg, or would you then be sailing dutchies more?
I maybe wrong but I thought that the council jurisdiction stops 10 ft of the high tide mark and then it goes to the commonwealth
Lao Shi I will talk to you about this tonight at the AGM, but I think it is time for a well structure email campaign to the coastal councils to show that the windsurfing community is behind improving beach safety and that we have been using the beaches without issue for 20yrs etc etc.
Maybe we should represent our suggestions regarding exclusion zones and explain that if swimmer are up wind there is limit risk etc.
Councillors needs votes and they hate bad publicity. Might be time to call the West Australian and get a campaign going about iconic aussie sports being banded from the beach all that sort of emotional rubbish that the media love.
Dog exercise in the high risk category? Are these people for real...
I think this has allot to do with ass covering. Ive never sailed scarbs but I hope they dont ban it for you guys!
As the policy has been voted on then need to get the windsurfers changed from high risk to low risk, Loby the council, email each counceller from Marks email addresses.
We can't change the whole policy but we can tell them why our sport is low risk and how it is so different to the other high risk ones and get them to change this.
Email and write letters now asking who decided it was high risk and why.
Select to expand quoteNR said...
If scarbs area does get shut down, where do you see the like of yourself Matt and the other scarbs locals sailing ?? Up nearer Trigg, or would you then be sailing dutchies more?
might investigate the banks further north - between scarbs and trigg -investigated it last summer and the banks were a bit straight up there
for some reason Brighton often has the sweetest banks when the windswell is in. There may be some bedrock that "anchors" the banks
Unfortunately up there with rampant car break ins so i dunno about that - have had a few mates lose their cars entirely.
i reckon out of town whenever possible
i would die of boredom sailing duchies in summer (cos my freestyle skills suck)
Anyone who sails at Scarborough knows that the vast majority of windsurfers already stick to one area of the beach (south side of the surf club storeroom).
WHEN CONFLICT OCCURS BETWEEN WINDSURFERS AND SWIMMERS IT IS USUALLY BECAUSE IGNORANT SWIMMERS ARE COMING INTO OUR AREA, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! Even though there is an entire beach to choose from, some idiots choose to swim (and often encourage their young children) to swim in the 20 odd metres of beach that windsurfers generally adhere to.
I was born and bred in Scarboro and it used to be my local break, but the last few seasons I've been heading to alternate locations because at Scarboro I've been unable to concentrate on my waveriding because I was too concerned about colliding with unwary swimmers using the same area. Generally I'm not in favour of segregation and rule making, but ALLOCATED AREAS MAY BE A GOOD IDEA PROVIDING THE COUNCIL AND SCARBORO S.L.S.C IMPLEMENT STRATEGIES THAT WILL ENSURE THAT BATHERS DO NOT SWIM IN THE WINDSURFING AND KITING AREAS, THUS ENSURING SAFETY AND HARMONY BETWEEN ALL WATER USERS.
Yes we need to be recognized as low risk!
We don't want to be associated with kiters who managed to stuff it up for us.
My draft email clearly states the difference between us and kitesurfers in how much room they take up, the length of time it takes for an out of control kite to come to a stop compared to a sail hitting the water and how much more hazardous they are.
I mention grouping us together will create conflict and be hazardous to both parties.
I have also mentioned that as the COS wants to take control of our self regulated safety that if any incidents happen to a windsurfer from a kitesurfer while we are in the same designated area, I would strongly urge the windsurfer to take legal action against the council for compensation.
We won't stop this policy but we may be able to deflect it by changing our staus to low risk, spend just 30 minutes put together an email and send each councilor one now! it's just a click of a button.
Just out of interest.
Whats the penalty/fine going to be for going windsurfing there??
I must be pretty niaeve, didn't ever think an Australian would get fined or stopped from using an Australian beach/ocean. oh well.
Ok guys I spoke to the Beach Services Co-ordinator yesterday and here is his e-mail to me.
"As discussed, please find attached a copy of the City's Beach Recreational Activity Plan and appendixes. The plan itself is not wholly about restricting or limiting windsurfing at City of Stirling beaches. It also deals with, in part, banning jetskis from all beaches within the City of Stirling and establishing an area of beach at Mettams Pool where fishing is not permitted. The City has strived to find a balance between all beach activities and of course recognises that there may be areas where adjustments may be made.
As mentioned, with regard to windsurfing, the idea is basically to formalise what is already an informal situation at the southern end of Scarborough Beach. There is no intent on the City's part to stop or ban activities from occurring. The plan is only for a 12 month trial and the City will welcome input, particularly with regard to shifting the northern boundary of the permissible area closer to the Scarboro Surf Life Saving Club. The grassed area immediately adjacent to the Surf Club pathway and the track are still available to use."
Those present at the WWA AGM discussed the situation and we will be sending a submission to the council. WWA would also like to organise a meeting between council, WAKSA and the Scarborough SLSC to try and reach an acceptable solution. I understand the strength of feeling but please hold off on "demonstrations" and the like until we have tried negotiations.
By all means, please contact the council directly to make your feelings known.
It would be good if you could either copy WWA in using the e-mail info at windsurfingwa.org.au or post your message on this thread.
The fine will be $125 but will be a last resort after warnings issued by beach inspectors or lifeguards. We need to try and reach a solution and educate everybody about it so that nobody feels the need to elevate the exclusion to a ban.
Thanks knigit for bringing it to our attention. The council recognised that it had not contacted us for input citing a lack of contact details. As I stated earlier, WWA made a submission on the draft redevelopment plan this time last year.
Sorry this is a long one, but I hope it raises some valid points to bring normality to this contentious issue.
When I first read the announcement about the Beach Recreational Policy its full ramifications didn't quite sink in initially, but it has now. Windsurfers, Kitesurfers and surfers alike along this stretch of coast may now be exposed to even more conflict than the intent of the policy. Collectively, we will now have to readjust the common agreed areas into an even narrower area along the coast. Potentially leading to an untenable level of frustration due to overcrowding and ultimately exposing users and bystanders to serious and litigious injuries.
The area that the City of Stirling (CoS) has legislated as an exclusion zone has been a place that has given myself and hundreds of others sailors many years of amazing enjoyment. To now have it removed in a brushstroke makes me feel extremely morose. Even worse, during the period between Oct and Nov the conditions at Scabs contains some of the best sailing conditions of the season. At the same time conditions are highly undesirable for swimming as the water is still cold and the wind chill factor keeps the beach virtually deserted. Having this exclusion zone empty of sailing during this period is senseless.
Like Mike, I'm in the process of drafting an email and letter to the CoS. I want to ensure that I state the facts and articulate the incorrigible way CoS neglected the interests one the main group who effected by this decision, the Scarborough Wavesailing community. Therefore, I would like WWA to confirm that they were not privy to any discussion relating to exclusion zones at Scarborough Beach. Also that WWA did not receive a draft policy indicating the proposed layout of the exclusion zones until post approval of the legislation.
This is an important issue to debate that CoS were negligent in accordance with the Local Government Act which requires community review of all draft policies, in this case the exclusion of input from WWA.
Other issues I believe need raising to CoS are and I'm guessing there would be more;
1) How were the Activity Risks assessed.? CoS did not provide a thorough reasoning of the risk assessment, which is required by any agency when implementing new legislation. For example, according to this policy there is nothing prohibiting someone fishing in the middle of an area that is designated as swimming along Scabs.
2) As Matt pointed out, security of the Manning St carpark is pretty bad in comparison to the currently location where the carpark is in full view while on the water and regular patrols by the police and CoS security. Has this issue been addressed by CoS such that they will provide additional patrol to ensure the same level of security as the existing. After reviewing the policy this issue has not been addressed.
Addressing these issues raised may enhance the opportunity of reinstating windsurfing back to its original location after the 1 year trial period.
I believe this legislation has emerged due to a group that has more influence over CoS than Windsurfers, Kitesurfers and Surfers. One of the main causes of conflict, which is the catalyst for the policy, was over the past few seasons at Scabs the flippancy and blatant disregard to the logical behaviour by Scarboro SLCC by swimming, paddling etc directly in the traditional windsurfing area.
This caused a great deal of conflict between the two parties. I can remember one instance where the kayaking coach telling a windsurfer, concerned about the safety of people in the water, to “F Off this is our training area”.
To quote George Orwell's Animal Farm “All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.” After reading the Kitesurfing forum, to fully educate myself regarding this topical issue, WAKSA quoted that;
“Kite exclusion zones around swimming areas established by Scarboro SLSC will be endorsed by WAKSA and local kiters;
Does this mean that Scarboro SLCC have the exclusive rights to dictate who, where and when people can use the beach.?
Therefore, the complete negative sentiment towards the kitesurfing community as the sole reason for banning windsurfing is a little unjust.
Mutual collaboration from all parties is required here to allow all sports to coexist together at Scabs. It can work if you remove simple minded bigotry.
Sorry guys, new website is under construction.
e-mail address is: info at windsurfingwa.org.au
Thanks to those that have copied us in on their submissions good arguments being put forward. I have sent a request to CofS to get a meeting together between CofS, WWA, WAKSA and Scarborough SLSC so we can see what can be done to find a workable solution.
Good stuff Sheeny, very well put.
I'd also ask them to confirm that they actually have jurisdiction below the high tide mark, my understanding was that councils had absolutely no authority in this area. I know that Wellington Point is like this -- the council tried to ban kiting there but kiters rig up below the high tide mark and they can't do anything about it. Rangers come around every now and again and if you have one tiny bit of kit above the high tide line you'll get fined, if you're on the sand then you're fine...
Might be a good loophole to consider?
CofS has just organised a meeting between WWA, WAKSA and Scarborough SLSC for tomorrow morning. I will report back.
I have sailed at Mullaloo a few times last season after the council placed the exclusion zones and there still seems to be ongoing issues. North Mullaloo zone is similar to the one identified by the CoS, kite zone to the south, then exclusion zone. We usually sail just to the north of the exclusion zone - a bit like the Brighton set up....minus the decent banks and quality sailors of course. What tends to happen is the competent guys kite upwind, and the ones that wipe out or are learning are to the north & get swept into the exclusion zone which then leads to issues with swimmers & beach goers. Out of control kites heading off northward is par for the course up there, I have had a couple of near misses, I've also dragged in 3 boards in 1 session - no probs as everybody's gotta have their fun. Looking at the proposed plan at Scarborough it would seem logical to have the kiters DOWNWIND at the north carpark end, this would avoid the likely hood of incidents described above befouling the surf club exclusion zone. Should they wipe out etc then they will not run foul of an exclusion zone until Trigg, plenty of space imo.
Never had a problem with a kiter, especially one downwind of me. Never met a kiter who was happy to be downwind of me though...!
The whole premise of these demarcation zones are flawed as they do not take into account wind directions, currents, launch points & human error etc. If they are to be in place then buffer zones would be required - that's more real estate lost.
Exclusions are just a council cop out for not making the public aware that the water is a shared resource (like the old "windsurfers frequent these areas" signs). They seem to work at Methams, Watermans and Dutchies...!
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Perth is just growing too fast. The free ways are clogged in the morning and afternoon, parking in the city is exhausted. and the government is not able to keep up with infrastructure demands.
All the big 1/4 acre blocks have been developed in Scarboro and Doubleview / surrounding areas. Instead we have 4-6 units on all these blocks. Big apartment blocks have also been built in the Scarb foreshore in the last 20 years. The influx of beach goers has risen extremely in the last 20 years.
Banning windsurfing at Scarboro and kitesurfing at Mullaloo is a direct result of our population growth and only indirectly a safety issue, it becomes a safety issue when too many people are using the same area for their recreation.
All these people come to the beach, and most just want to go for a swim.
The council will take the easy way out and move windsurfers or kite surfers along, as has happened to kitesurfing at Mullallo. Luckily the blow was softened by local groups and WAKSA working with the councillors before the final decision was made. This was only possible due to kitesurfers being informed about the up coming council beech management plans.
The future probably looks worse for windsurfing and kitesurfing, the answer is to get organised, windsurfers and kiters together because the only thing that the council is interested in is the number of votes they are likely to get out of a group of population.
Although windsurfers were one of the prominent constants besides the SLSC at Scarbs, most people don't know anything about water sports like windsurfing and will only see it as a potential hazard.
