Select to expand quoteShane said..
...yet when it's on I look out over the river and see fast guys sailing up at Melville ....
At last, my talent is recognised!
Select to expand quotepyro said..
The next club day is this Sunday so too late to put together the marathon but we hope to have some casual racing in the sound and upto Penguin Island .If you are keen to help organise the marathon I guess the following club day is the second week in January , the week before the LOC so it could be a practice event . Just need the people who can commit to help WWA and SBWC.
I'll help out.
I'd suggest a handicap start
Beginner/intermediate on free/wave gear.
5min later Freerace
5min later Pro/Slalom
Select to expand quoteScoob said..Shane said..
...yet when it's on I look out over the river and see fast guys sailing up at Melville ....
At last, my talent is recognised!
I took up slalom sailing recently having done B&J/ "wave sailing" for a number of years now. I bought a 2nd hand 7m cammed sail and 100l slalom board last year. In the few Wednesday races I've done I'm still getting my arse kicked by the guys on freeride gear. Admittedly they're using big sails(7-7.5m2) but it does go to show that you really don't need to fork out on the top end expensive slalom gear, either that or it just shows how average I am at using it. Anyway I'd highly recommend coming along on Wednesdays on the river, it's a great motivator to improve your sailing all round.
Select to expand quotePhilCutter said..Scoob said..Shane said..
...yet when it's on I look out over the river and see fast guys sailing up at Melville ....
At last, my talent is recognised!
I took up slalom sailing recently having done B&J/ "wave sailing" for a number of years now. I bought a 2nd hand 7m cammed sail and 100l slalom board last year. In the few Wednesday races I've done I'm still getting my arse kicked by the guys on freeride gear. Admittedly they're using big sails(7-7.5m2) but it does go to show that you really don't need to fork out on the top end expensive slalom gear, either that or it just shows how average I am at using it. Anyway I'd highly recommend coming along on Wednesdays on the river, it's a great motivator to improve your sailing all round.
You shame me.
I'm in.
A new division may be needed. A 'sham(e) gybe division', where you drag your clew and save it with the up-haul. My specialty.
Select to expand quotepetermac33 said...
It's bad for the racing scene as most racers now have their (ego) device attached to their arm------- and sail at ridiculous angles upwind
then at another crazy angle off the wind.
And most of this sailing is done in the flattest water they can find----to further massage their ego's. 
What has happened to across the wind sailing in chop especially,is that it has all but died.
l totally agree with you there's only a few guys who can go fast in chop reaching backwards & forwards these days.a lot of the guys who wear gps bands wouldn't know how to sail in rough stuff. l learnt on the river pinnaroo& & the pond back in the day l remember guys like Claude robbie radis chris (slowboat) nils they use to flog it in open waters
Select to expand quotegavnwend said..l remember guys like Claude robbie radis chris (slowboat) nils they use to flog it in open waters
They still do 
With all the interest in Windforce Wednesday Night Slalom, don't forget you need to be a WWA or SBWC member (or any state for that matter). You also need to register via the WWA site for the eventhttps://windsurfingwa.tidyclub.com/public/events/1235-wednesday-night-slalom-2014-2015
To register hit the buy tickets button. Entry is free.
Select to expand quoteShane said..
All the boxes are ticked in terms of volunteer coordination of the racing at Pelican Point on Wednesdays. There is a fun, casual environment, good racing and even free beer and pizza provided, yet when it's on I look out over the river and see fast guys sailing up at Melville so we've got to ask what we can do better. Perhaps nobody knows that it's on...should we try to raise the event profile? It can't get much more casual than it already is so perhaps that's the direction to head with it..
I don't see why we can't have EVERYBODY there on Wednesdays for a regular social gathering and fun sailing. We are a relatively small group of like minded people- let's get together. It would be a lot more "real" than sitting in front of a computer typing congratulatory messages to each other on GPSTC after sailing.
Personally I would be there every time if it was a day other than Wednesday 
Can't make it!
Racing, GPSing, Waves…, even all three simultaneously, it's all good!
Select to expand quotepetermac33 said..Paul Kelf said..
Anyone know if there will be an event this year?
GPS has pretty much killed slalom and marathon racing.
The racing events that are still held,like Lancelin and possibly Safety Bay are started as soon as a 10 knot seabreeze arrives!
The Wednesday comp is great though.Select to expand quotepetermac33 said..
Fair enough,each to their own. Its valid though that slalom and marathon racing has suffered greatly from GPS.
As to has drag racing across the river.
Get out of here. Are you saying GPS is more fun than slalom racing? Without GPS there would still be the same amount of racers. If you are determined enough to get better at slalom and racing, you would attend races. GPS speed and endurance is like another discipline.
Lancelin is started at the start time if wind is in at a reasonable level, not 10 knots. They can't delay a long time for safety reasons, but can start in low wind if there is no chance of the wind minimum (before around 3pm I think). Safety Bay has similar issues with timing - it's part of racing. This has nothing to do with GPS.
Any scheduled or regular race is always going to be better attended than a wait and see race. Look at Melbourne Cup, when is that?!
If someone doesn't want to go to an event or wait for the call, they can just go out and slap on a GPS but that's not real racing. They would probably still not go to the race even without GPS around.
Select to expand quoteAUS1111 said..Shane said..
All the boxes are ticked in terms of volunteer coordination of the racing at Pelican Point on Wednesdays. There is a fun, casual environment, good racing and even free beer and pizza provided, yet when it's on I look out over the river and see fast guys sailing up at Melville so we've got to ask what we can do better. Perhaps nobody knows that it's on...should we try to raise the event profile? It can't get much more casual than it already is so perhaps that's the direction to head with it..
I don't see why we can't have EVERYBODY there on Wednesdays for a regular social gathering and fun sailing. We are a relatively small group of like minded people- let's get together. It would be a lot more "real" than sitting in front of a computer typing congratulatory messages to each other on GPSTC after sailing.
Personally I would be there every time if it was a day other than Wednesday Can't make it!
Racing, GPSing, Waves…, even all three simultaneously, it's all good!
Agree with 1111
any style of racing is fun, if I can get there I will, but
After work thru peak hour on the other side of river means it never happens.
now if we could just change it to the Pelican point WindForce Wednesday nightracing at Leighton on Saturday afternoon I might have a chance
WWA has put together a guide to running an event. If you are interested is running an event at your local spot this guide will give you all the info needed to get an event off the ground.https://windsurfingwa.tidyclub.com/public/pages/event-guide
We can guide you through most of the steps and make it as painless as possible from an admin side. The big challenge is get fmates onboard to help out on the day and in the lead up to the event.
Learning a really effective wind and swell dance really helps to make an event too. No wind events really suck.
Take a lead from the Freestyle crew, a few mates got a great event off the ground over a few beers. Actually Green Head is organised the same way, a few mates at the pub catching up over a beers and a counter meal. There is definitely a commom thread here
Select to expand quotewestozwind said.. GrumpySmurf said..
How good does someone need to be to join any of these? Are there different "grades"? Could that possibly be the issue with popularity of these races as the intermediates are too overwhelmed by the really fast guys?
+1
My perception is that the Slalom racing is just that. Massive camed sails and slalom boards or don't bother.
Also, it's a bit of a club for the go fast guys, and intermediate sailors, or those with freeride/wave kit need not apply.
Bet they have had the same crew down there for a number of years.
P.S. Paul, you have probably figured out that the chance of a Safety Bay Marathon is low...
I'm getting that impression
Faark, I just wanted to know if it was on, not start a S**T fight
Any way, I was planning to do the Wed night slalom this season but it started without notice & I haven't been able to get there yet as work gets in the way.
It's the same as the GPS guys, when it's windy the same ones seem to be out sailing while I'm working, my priorities are obviously all wrong
It's almost like noone in Perth works regular hours.
The marathon would have been fun too
In he meantime, the best bet for LOC practice is to head down to Leighton on windy afternoons, gather up whoever is having a sail there, line up on the beach for a running start up near the Harbour groyne, and see who get down to Dutchies first.
When you get there you can have a quick check of your peak speed on your GPS, then head back upwind, hitting as many juicy ramps as you can find on the way. If you weren't the fastest maybe you can be the highest
Is this a bit of you PM33?
Interesting discussion on GPS. It mirrors a lot of my feelings over the years.
It seems as if the amount of go fast gear being sold has risen while the level of general sailing skills has plateaued - or even gone backwards.
Definitely gybing skills are rare. I'm sure there were sick gybes going down heaps more in the 90s!
GPS definitely has some positives - however its also has some real negatives on the whole sailing scene.
The major being the erosion of the general beach scene with match racing and 1 on one or group blasting.
Sailing in flat water reveals very little about your tuning - which means that many crew dont learn about slowing down for gybes , looking for a nice berm to turn off, or trough to exit on, maximising speed on tight reaches and being able to be tuned for off the wind chop to put the hammer down in relative safety.
your gear needs to be neutral to be fast - or as Chris Lockwood iconically put it in the Wizards of Oz - Windsurfing is flying - only 1 cm off the water.
Boom too low /track too far fwd / sail too flat - and you are sailing heavy - which you will feel in chop as your rails and nose starts to hit everything.
Boom too high/ track too far back / sail too full - and you are sailing flighty with tail walking and your feet coming out of the straps.
The most common issue that i see with flat water sailors is straps too tight with chop knocking feet out of the straps and massively compromised board control.
Flat water gives you very little of this necessary feedback to get in the neutral flight zone.
And sailing on your own gives you very little feedback too. Match racing will improve your technique and speed faster than anything.
I like the idea of GPS Free racing - but it certainly doesnt make for much of a spectacle as it just seems like random scribblings on a page without a clear winner.
Unless you could have live feedback of results coming in ?
Its no coincidence that the best all round sailors - and the fastest seem to be the ones match racing - and these guys can still smash out good GPS results.
Many of the GPS crew (top performers excepted)are no where to be seen at the pointy end of downwind Marathons - i suspect because they hit every bump on the way downwind.
There must be a way to take the best that GPS has to offer and combine it with a good beach scene.
Leighton is a great suggestion as its a great place to sail with a good balance of longer chop and nice smooth sections for gybes.
Wow some guy puts up a great post about a safety bay marathon, and it brings the GPS Windsurfing haters out of hiding. OK Maybe I’ve made the first mistake here by calling them “haters”, as the old American Indian proverb says, “Do Not Judge Me Until You Have Walked A Mile in My Moccassins”. OK some empathy and understanding is required here, so lets understand why such hatred of GPS Windsurfing exists?
When you look deeper into it, of course there is some validity in the hatred of GPS windsurfing, I mean anyone that has been raped or had a family member raped by a GPS windsurfer, or anyone who has had a family member seriously maimed or harmed by a GPS windsurfer has very legitimate gripes against GPS Windsurfing, and therefore needs compassion and understanding for their vitriol. Apparently crime statistics do show there is an over-representation of GPS Windsurfers in the criminal justice system. (How embarrassmenting) 
The other issue involves the GPS instrument themselves. Some people have been very traumatised by GPS instruments themselves, unfortunately for these unlucky souls occurring during very sensitive developmental periods. Some during these very sensitive childhood years have had the misfortune of having a GPS device explode in their faces while playing with the family GPS. For many, this has meant living with life-long disability caused by a GPS device. Therefore those who have suffered disability from an exploding GPS device also have legitimate gripes, and also deserve our compassion and understanding, and have every right to have expressed their rage at those who selfishly derive pleasure from this demonic disabling device that has caused many such pain and loss.
Then there is the Manufacturers of GPS devices, many of these are enterprises that use child labour in factories with sweat shop like conditions. These are clear violations of human rights and the GPS manufacturers should be severely prosecuted under international law. Then there's the contribution to global warming issue, via the excessive energy that is used to manufacture GPS devices.
I hate to admit it, but the more I write about this the more I’m beginning to despise GPS Windsurfing myself. In fact “GPS” Windsurfing should be classified as a separate tribe from the “Pure” Windsurfing tribe!! Geez, I’m getting so fired up now, and I hope I’m not going too far but, is it unreasonable to suggest “gpsocide” ?
The days of watching Slowboat compete in the Wednesday comp do seem to be well and truly over. Such a waste of talent!
Never mind getting to compete against him drag racing across the river. Only sails upwind / downwind now----is this really windsurfing?
I had a GPS once,though never quite figured out how to use the thing.
Sure they are great fun,but slalom and marathon competition have suffered since the GPS rage / craze.
Perhaps it's just a coincidence.
As for someone mentioning putting the Wed comp on at Melville.
Perhaps a beach start a few hundred metres down from the carpark. Then around the outer post,sail back around the inside post,back out again to the outer post,then a long run back to the finish line.
Might be worth a trial period.
Here is a thought guys, for those who cant see to much from the GPSTC program.
Match racing slalom racing the same top guys flog the guts out of "every " event. Either you have it, to be a top gun windsurfer, or you don't.
So who wants to be flogged each event then. Its for young guns and well seasoned experienced windsurfers only.
Its all good for the "top 10%" and not much for the rest of the also rans. Run a ruler over all the vents for last 7-8 years, and same guys winning each event.
Novices and old bastards like me never in the hunt
GPSTC at least gives each person, no matter what level, some feel of involvement in a team situation. Even if like me, your skills never get any place close to the top of the team, at least you are part of that team. One on one coaching from the good level guys is a regular event in most teams I have come across. Encouragement from the top guys to strive for better results, be it open water or flat water. Coaching with skills is always on the go with GPSTC team mates. Even had one member from Queensland help me out via emails with skills.
Never see that with any slalom events that I witnessed. Could have happened but wasn't obvious. If by chance a gumby or novice got in the way of the top lads, a verbal blast usually was the end result from the gun who's minute of fame might have been dampened a tad.
My initiation to windsurfing walking into a shop here in Perth, and listening to two lads trading all their windsurfing kit for kite kit.
I asked them why, as I was just starting out. One of them grumpily replied. "Windsurfing is secret business, and experience was they both felt isolated and intimidated trying to get to the next level.
So second thoughts straight away from me, hmm do I continue, or switch to kites like these two.
Not long after I tentatively got onto this sport, with those two lads voices of discontent ringing in my ears, GPSTC was launched by a couple of top lads from the Peel area.
Watched this become a huge success as a team sport, for "ALL" levels across Aus. And yep, met a huge amount of combatants in my trip around Aus in 2010/2011
Goodness knows how many members it has now, but its great fun and appreciated by the likes of gumbys like me I can tell you.
Paul, sorry to hijack your thread one beer perhaps coming up
Personally i'm not hating
just stating some observations - its not black and white like you are pointing out.
i was quite optimistic about the impact of GPS when it came out last decade.
My personal theory is that it does have some good and some bad things to answer for.
Obviously the whole GPS internet racing scene has been quite successful but there does seem to be an over emphasis on 2 second peaks - not that they arent exciting though!
I think we need to find a way to use the GPS to its maximum potential for doing good for the whole scene. I'd actually be very interested in using GPS to measure performance differences.
sometimes you are going fast when you feel slow and vice versa- a GPS can quantitatively measure these perception errors
But i already struggle just to keep all my gear in reasonable nick to get out for a quick sail - adding GPS just feels like another layer of complication.
Guyz I'm just having a bit of a Larf and a bit of a go
I am always bemused by why people think they have the right to criticize something others get great joy from
In truth, Its all in the mind guyz, its what ya tell yourself, an opinion or idea is not a universal reality no mattrer how right or clever you think you are!
My honest opinion is I love every form of windsurfing, but because of my age and injuries I'm struggling to do a wider variety of windsurfing, I would love to wavesail more race more, sail really fast in wild choppy conditions, but I have enough broken bones, arthritic joints, and chronic injuries and health problems, that limits my windsurfing, please dont try and steal what I derive my joy from negativity attracts negativity.
I would love to do the safety bay marathon, but wont because my Orthopaedic Surgeon said no competitive windsurfing for 12 months.
I envy all you lucky buggers than can do marathons, race, and just madly go for it
My biggest gripe with GPS sailors is this one thread on Seabreeze, I made this Gif series showing my new invention..
Wile. E builds a slingshot on his Gath and uses it to shoot the GPS forward to increase his 2 second peak, finally topping his PB, only 2 knots behind The RoadRunner!!
He even has two hooks on his spreader bar, which was something I once saw down in sandy point.. This is a funny on many levels..
I didn't even manage 3 green thumbs, the humour of GPS sailors is almost as flat as the water they use!!
Select to expand quoteReflex Films said..
Leighton is a great suggestion as its a great place to sail with a good balance of longer chop and nice smooth sections for gybes.
On the subject of Leighton (or Port Beach), and this has nothing to do with this topic, but I reckon if there was 100m2 of lawn there and a maybe hose, there would be fifty sailors out on a weekend afternoon instead of five.
Come on guys it's only sand!
pinneroo point could be another good venue .plenty of rigging area.once you get out nice rolling swell if done in a ss/w .place has got potenial.leighton is good too even woodies pt.
How about actually doing something positive! How's this for a Safety Bay Marathon plan: We nominate a day where everyone turns up at say 3pm, (could do it with less the 7 days notice) get one person to start it and we'll film the entire "race" from a chopper. No official marks, all gybe marks will be filmed from the air so no ones going to cheat? First to a certain beach is the winner and we upload the video to Youtube that night, should be a great positive fun day out.
Doubt you'd need permission/planning approvals as it's just a bunch of guys going for a blast?
We're currently doing training with a pilot for low level work so can easily do it at no cost.
Any thoughts?
Select to expand quoteOn the subject of Leighton (or Port Beach), and this has nothing to do with this topic, but I reckon if there was 100m2 of lawn there and a maybe hose, there would be fifty sailors out on a weekend afternoon instead of five.
Come on guys it's only sand!
I've been rigging down in front of the new units, there's a lot of grass and bbq's with People around. It's a little further to carry your gear which is a downside but beats rigging on those concrete and rocks near where we rig at salt.
I can't for the life of me understand why more sailors aren't at Leighton. It's windier then the river and way cleaner.
Select to expand quotepetermac33 said..
The days of watching Slowboat compete in the Wednesday comp do seem to be well and truly over. Such a waste of talent!
Slowy is wasting his talent because he doesn't always compete in the Wednesday comp - what a bizarre conclusion to come to.
I wonder how the Mistral boards and CL fins happened?
Who sets speed sailing benchmarks the rest of us hope to get within 5 knots of?
I don't know if you just enjoy being provocative or you actually believe what you say 
Select to expand quoteHF said..
How about actually doing something positive! How's this for a Safety Bay Marathon plan: We nominate a day where everyone turns up at say 3pm, (could do it with less the 7 days notice) get one person to start it and we'll film the entire "race" from a chopper. No official marks, all gybe marks will be filmed from the air so no ones going to cheat? First to a certain beach is the winner and we upload the video to Youtube that night, should be a great positive fun day out.
Doubt you'd need permission/planning approvals as it's just a bunch of guys going for a blast?
We're currently doing training with a pilot for low level work so can easily do it at no cost.
Any thoughts?
I reckon this thread itself is shaping up to be fairly positive. It's great to have a wide discussion with valuable opinions offered, even at the risk of offending some.
GPSTC is hugely successful and popular so any negative comments about it are not likely to result in everybody bailing out of their team - On the other hand, we have seen a steady decline in local windsurfing events with a sparser calendar every year. Once events such as the South Beach Slalom, Swan River Downwinder, Mandurah Drags, Cervantes Speed have disappeared, there has been no sign of them reappearing. If you are ok with this scenario, then continue to focus solely on your GPS sailing and enjoy.
A few people have mentioned a perception of elitism in the racing scene and a necessity for cammed sails, etc to participate. Perhaps competition got pretty serious in the '90s (I don't know) but nothing could be further from the truth at any events I have seen for years, with people at both ends of the fleet coming off the water with big smiles and on all sorts of boards and sails, so I hope I have put that misconception to rest permanently. I think MarkAustralia's suggestion for a freeride division is brilliant!
I'm keen to help with the Safety Bay Marathon if it goes ahead- sounds like some plans may be under discussion so just let me know what I can do as long as it doesn't involve doing low level manoeuvres onboard with the trainee chopper pilot
Select to expand quoteHF said...
How about actually doing something positive! How's this for a Safety Bay Marathon plan: We nominate a day where everyone turns up at say 3pm, (could do it with less the 7 days notice) get one person to start it and we'll film the entire "race" from a chopper. No official marks, all gybe marks will be filmed from the air so no ones going to cheat? First to a certain beach is the winner and we upload the video to Youtube that night, should be a great positive fun day out.
Doubt you'd need permission/planning approvals as it's just a bunch of guys going for a blast?
We're currently doing training with a pilot for low level work so can easily do it at no cost.
Any thoughts?
Perfect idea HF I'm 100% in.
