Hi Emmett
Thankyou for your detailed and super technical post on high end small Naish foils.
Just wish the manufacturer can provide such information and as you know, the foils are not cheap.
There is a lot of science behind the design of each foil which is hard to quantify as there are so many brands now out there each with their amazing claims.
I don't have GPS speed access so your info is priceless. One interesting post I saw is that in this year's
Delfi wing foil race in France, the speed for the light weight female riders are right there among the men.
I assume that lighter body weight = smaller gears = higher speed.
There is hope for me yet at 65 kg. 
Select to expand quotewinddoc said..
Hi Emmett
Thankyou for your detailed and super technical post on high end small Naish foils.
Just wish the manufacturer can provide such information and as you know, the foils are not cheap.
There is a lot of science behind the design of each foil which is hard to quantify as there are so many brands now out there each with their amazing claims.
I don't have GPS speed access so your info is priceless. One interesting post I saw is that in this year's
Delfi wing foil race in France, the speed for the light weight female riders are right there among the men.
I assume that lighter body weight = smaller gears = higher speed.
There is hope for me yet at 65 kg.
Hi winddoc. You're welcome. I'm not sure what else naish could provide. I think their marketing descriptions (hype) are accurate. In my prev msg, my cruising speed and flat water air breach recovery ratings helped you, but for most buyers that info is too specific/subjective/confusing. The new HA foils are super versatile and predictable and not claimed to go super quick but they will go faster than most people care to go. I've ridden one Mach1 foil, once, in moderately turbulent water and it felt very glidey and easy to control. The Kite650 foil is difficult to use winging, and superb for high powered play sessions, but not marketed for winging. I'm sure many wingers can push the small naish foils much faster than I have been able to. For heavily loaded reaching angles, I think top speeds depends at lot of the stability and efficiency+drag of the wing-sail (assuming low aero drag of the board), and for high downwind speeds when the foil is flat (mast more vertical) and the hydroplane needs to be piloted just under the surface, then I think a shorter mast helps with pitch control, assuming flat water. Plus there are the wind conditions and the smoothness of the water. My speeds are using a Garmin Fenix 5 watch and it seems to produce smooth true speed vs time plots.
To go faster, without more risk, I think I need to focus on stiffer and more efficient sails, and then the mach1-550 might get me over 30 kts. Maybe I sand just a little more twist into the 550 tips. So many wingers are doing over 30 kts these days. Which is far more difficult to do/control than with a kite. I think the time has come for me to delete my board leash. There is also the dilemma of a long board to get up on a small foil, vs short board for much better pitch control.
Regarding body weight and where it's going, off naish topic, but briefly: I think it's yet to be determined and depends on wind speeds. It's not only power-to-weight but also a control and efficiency issue. Larger riders will have the disadvantage of scale. It's impossible to get the same stiffness per weight with the same materials as you scale things up. So the big boys are either going to need super expensive materials and/or deal with extra flex and loss of control and efficiency (think foil-mast, fuselage, and sail). IQ windfoiler bodies look pretty heavy and tall, but their sail connects to the board so they need weight on the windward board rail to keep it down. Wingers don't have this issue. Olympic kiters look heavy which is interesting, but they have absurd amounts of sail power available, with very little weight on the foil to get up, and kites with strings don't have any of the flex and efficiency problems of large hand-held sails. Lighter wingers might have some disadvantage with lack of height for sail span, but they can always use a longer mast to fly their sail higher.
After reading JB's comment regarding how fast he could go on the Kite810 I decided to give it a try to compare to my Mach1 900. Immediately I felt the lower lateral stability due to the narrower span, but yes, this wing is quick. Also I had trouble pumping onto the foil, the 810 definitely doesn't lift as early as the 900 which was to be expected due to the slightly smaller size but I feel the higher aspect of the 900 is definitely way easier to get going on.
Will give the 810 another go in nuking conditions while we wait for the Mach 2.
Hi Naish Foilers, I just picked up a Mach 1100 series 26, 280HA tail on a C35 75cm mast. Very fast out winging yesterday in difficult conditions but a less glide than I was expecting, and I couldn't get it pumping nicely.
I was hoping to also use this foil for learning to prone foil. I'm 75kg and have a 4'6" 36l Wavechaser board to use. Already can surf and wing. Is it worth trying to prone with this setup or do I really need to get a new 2024 HA setup for glide and pump? Cheers, Mike
Bump....
Riding the HA 840 for the last few sessions, but in flat or choppy lumps here in the UAE, and loving how well it turns.
Sometimes I hear the tip breach and get ready to hit the water but it sticks and lets me cutback like I was doing a cutback on my surfboard. Now I should be able to make my heel side tacks look and feel a bit smoother.
I'm a keen kiter (95kgs) and have the Triton X1 which is great for light winds. I'm looking for something a bit quicker for stronger winds and thinking about old kite 810 and the Ultra Jet 850. Has anyone had experience with both of these and could provide some hands-on advice?
Select to expand quoteDrewInBrissie said..
I'm a keen kiter (95kgs) and have the Triton X1 which is great for light winds. I'm looking for something a bit quicker for stronger winds and thinking about old kite 810 and the Ultra Jet 850. Has anyone had experience with both of these and could provide some hands-on advice?
The 850 Ultra Jet is an exceptionally fun and very fast foil. My fastest speed to date is still on the 810 though, but the 850 is far easier to use and get up on. I haven't had conditions to really stretch the legs on the 850 past 43kmh. But it felt like it had plenty more to give and comfortably too!
Ride safe,
JB
Select to expand quoteWindgenuity said..DrewInBrissie said..
I'm a keen kiter (95kgs) and have the Triton X1 which is great for light winds. I'm looking for something a bit quicker for stronger winds and thinking about old kite 810 and the Ultra Jet 850. Has anyone had experience with both of these and could provide some hands-on advice?
The 850 Ultra Jet is an exceptionally fun and very fast foil. My fastest speed to date is still on the 810 though, but the 850 is far easier to use and get up on. I haven't had conditions to really stretch the legs on the 850 past 43kmh. But it felt like it had plenty more to give and comfortably too!
Ride safe,
JB
I want one! I've been trying since June. Now estimating September for US delivery. Why are they trying to drive into the arms of another?
