I've been intrigued by the narrow boards with a more stubby back than the pure DW paddle boards. I often go out quite far in light and slightly unstable winds. I need to know I can still get on foil and get home if the wind falls a few knots. Also, no jumping for me.
I've been looking at Amos Sultan wing, but it's a bit too expensive with import taxes in Norway. What are the other current alternatives?
A number of them out now, depending on what you are looking for specifically...BUT, I'm pretty sure we'll see a bunch more introduced in the next few months (including an Apple Slice V3, and Unifoil Quiver Killer, new stuff from Gong, and Axis)...
For now:
- Sunova Carver
- Omen Flux
- AFS Blackbird and Whitebird
- Amos Sultan Wing
- Cabrinha Swift
- Gong Cruzader
- Axis Hybrid
- Apple Tree Apple Skipper
- Portal Enigma
- Konrad Styk
among others I can't recall
While the Gong Cruzader was already mentioned it sounds like the Diamond version is what you are looking for. Shipping could be a challenge outside Europe though. www.gong-galaxy.com/produit/gong-wing-foil-board-cruzader-diamond-fsp-pro/
Recently I've been benchmarking the industry to get inspiration for my new narrow-large-wing only board (already ordered to my local custom boards shaper in Barcelona)..... Anyway, I see 3 trends into the market:
1) Pure DW boards (7-9' long and 18-20'' wide) used as wing boards for ultra low wind (Sunova , KT Guinxu, Duotone downwind, Takoon Scape, etc.) with +10 to +20 liter over your weight. I guess it's 5-10% of the market
2) Mainstream boards - All newly released boards, either for the average Joe or for the pro-freestyler which represent 90-95% of the market are getting narrower ( 2-3 inches less) and slightly longer( 2-6 inches more). Armstrong, JP, Omen, AppleTree and most custom shapers already startedb Expect all major brands (Duotone, North, F-One, Armstron, etc..) to trully reduce width soon.
3) The new category. A one-board-for-all, typically with same volume than rider's weight, width 19''-21'' and length shorter than 7' like the Sunova Carver, Amos Sultan Wing, Takoon Scape Wing, Cabrinha Swift, etc... I believe we will NOT see ALL major brands launching those kind of models.
What do you guys think ?
Select to expand quoteFranP said..
Recently I've been benchmarking the industry to get inspiration for my new narrow-large-wing only board (already ordered to my local custom boards shaper in Barcelona)..... Anyway, I see 3 trends into the market:
1) Pure DW boards (7-9' long and 18-20'' wide) used as wing boards for ultra low wind (Sunova , KT Guinxu, Duotone downwind, Takoon Scape, etc.) with +10 to +20 liter over your weight. I guess it's 5-10% of the market
2) Mainstream boards - All newly released boards, either for the average Joe or for the pro-freestyler which represent 90-95% of the market are getting narrower ( 2-3 inches less) and slightly longer( 2-6 inches more). Armstrong, JP, Omen, AppleTree and most custom shapers already startedb Expect all major brands (Duotone, North, F-One, Armstron, etc..) to trully reduce width soon.
3) The new category. A one-board-for-all, typically with same volume than rider's weight, width 19''-21'' and length shorter than 7' like the Sunova Carver, Amos Sultan Wing, Takoon Scape Wing, Cabrinha Swift, etc... I believe we will NOT see ALL major brands launching those kind of models.
What do you guys think ?
Pretty accurate views/assumptions. What did you go with with your custom shaper ?
Select to expand quoteMrFish said..
That looks well thought out to me ?!
Can it be jumped?
Select to expand quoteMrFish said..FranP said..
Recently I've been benchmarking the industry to get inspiration for my new narrow-large-wing only board (already ordered to my local custom boards shaper in Barcelona)..... Anyway, I see 3 trends into the market:
1) Pure DW boards (7-9' long and 18-20'' wide) used as wing boards for ultra low wind (Sunova , KT Guinxu, Duotone downwind, Takoon Scape, etc.) with +10 to +20 liter over your weight. I guess it's 5-10% of the market
2) Mainstream boards - All newly released boards, either for the average Joe or for the pro-freestyler which represent 90-95% of the market are getting narrower ( 2-3 inches less) and slightly longer( 2-6 inches more). Armstrong, JP, Omen, AppleTree and most custom shapers already startedb Expect all major brands (Duotone, North, F-One, Armstron, etc..) to trully reduce width soon.
3) The new category. A one-board-for-all, typically with same volume than rider's weight, width 19''-21'' and length shorter than 7' like the Sunova Carver, Amos Sultan Wing, Takoon Scape Wing, Cabrinha Swift, etc... I believe we will NOT see ALL major brands launching those kind of models.
What do you guys think ?
Pretty accurate views/assumptions. What did you go with with your custom shaper ?
Hi,We picked a 6'4'', 20'', 98 L full carbon, front bottom V-round (displacement hull) and flat tail, outline wiht squared tail for a more compact shape. My weight is 93 Kg .... available in one month.fingers crossed
Select to expand quoteFranP said..
Recently I've been benchmarking the industry to get inspiration for my new narrow-large-wing only board (already ordered to my local custom boards shaper in Barcelona)..... Anyway, I see 3 trends into the market:
1) Pure DW boards (7-9' long and 18-20'' wide) used as wing boards for ultra low wind (Sunova , KT Guinxu, Duotone downwind, Takoon Scape, etc.) with +10 to +20 liter over your weight. I guess it's 5-10% of the market
2) Mainstream boards - All newly released boards, either for the average Joe or for the pro-freestyler which represent 90-95% of the market are getting narrower ( 2-3 inches less) and slightly longer( 2-6 inches more). Armstrong, JP, Omen, AppleTree and most custom shapers already startedb Expect all major brands (Duotone, North, F-One, Armstron, etc..) to trully reduce width soon.
3) The new category. A one-board-for-all, typically with same volume than rider's weight, width 19''-21'' and length shorter than 7' like the Sunova Carver, Amos Sultan Wing, Takoon Scape Wing, Cabrinha Swift, etc... I believe we will NOT see ALL major brands launching those kind of models.
What do you guys think ?
The Takoon Escape looks interesting with a very good price. Is there a specific wing versions? Could only find "escape" and "escape sw".
Has anyone tried it?
Select to expand quoteBennis123 said..
The Takoon Escape looks interesting with a very good price. Is there a specific wing versions? Could only find "escape" and "escape sw".
Has anyone tried it?
Did not test but there are some reviews on german pages. However, XPS hydrophobic foam is quite heavy and I think not the best choice for bigger boards.
Seems to be around 8-9 kg for a 7'0
oaseforum.de/showthread.php?t=184560
Select to expand quoteFranP said..
Recently I've been benchmarking the industry to get inspiration for my new narrow-large-wing only board (already ordered to my local custom boards shaper in Barcelona)..... Anyway, I see 3 trends into the market:
1) Pure DW boards (7-9' long and 18-20'' wide) used as wing boards for ultra low wind (Sunova , KT Guinxu, Duotone downwind, Takoon Scape, etc.) with +10 to +20 liter over your weight. I guess it's 5-10% of the market
2) Mainstream boards - All newly released boards, either for the average Joe or for the pro-freestyler which represent 90-95% of the market are getting narrower ( 2-3 inches less) and slightly longer( 2-6 inches more). Armstrong, JP, Omen, AppleTree and most custom shapers already startedb Expect all major brands (Duotone, North, F-One, Armstron, etc..) to trully reduce width soon.
3) The new category. A one-board-for-all, typically with same volume than rider's weight, width 19''-21'' and length shorter than 7' like the Sunova Carver, Amos Sultan Wing, Takoon Scape Wing, Cabrinha Swift, etc... I believe we will NOT see ALL major brands launching those kind of models.
What do you guys think ?
I believe we will see most, if not all, brands, introduce what you call the new category. We need to find a name for this category. I have adopted "mid-length" wing board as used on The Progression Project Forum.
Additionally, your mainstream board category will remain and be positioned for beginners. I suggest the mid-lengths be positioned as a second board for intermediate and better sailors. Especially with widths of 18" like the Sultan Wing.
Pure DW boards will be used for winging by those who already have them and use them for DW. I don't see much advantage over a mid-length if you only use it for winging, in fact, there are only drawbacks.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..MrFish said..
That looks well thought out to me ?!
Can it be jumped?
Here's the JP/NP video -- the R-Winger seems to be spending a good amount of time in the air.
Select to expand quoteWindbot said..
While the Gong Cruzader was already mentioned it sounds like the Diamond version is what you are looking for. Shipping could be a challenge outside Europe though. www.gong-galaxy.com/produit/gong-wing-foil-board-cruzader-diamond-fsp-pro/
"Not Currently Available" -It or the AFS Blackbird looks like the way ahead.
Boards like that has been coming out as customs for a couple of years now. There is quite a few shapes like the ones below at my local beach. These are 6'2x20x90l and 5'4x22x75l but there is a plethora of similar shapes including really radical ones like 5'7x17x70. Mostly custom Jimmy Lewis, Cloud IX, and local home builders. We are a capitol of borderline medium winds 10-12knots so always looking for a little bit of edge.
Select to expand quoteBennis123 said..FranP said..
Recently I've been benchmarking the industry to get inspiration for my new narrow-large-wing only board (already ordered to my local custom boards shaper in Barcelona)..... Anyway, I see 3 trends into the market:
1) Pure DW boards (7-9' long and 18-20'' wide) used as wing boards for ultra low wind (Sunova , KT Guinxu, Duotone downwind, Takoon Scape, etc.) with +10 to +20 liter over your weight. I guess it's 5-10% of the market
2) Mainstream boards - All newly released boards, either for the average Joe or for the pro-freestyler which represent 90-95% of the market are getting narrower ( 2-3 inches less) and slightly longer( 2-6 inches more). Armstrong, JP, Omen, AppleTree and most custom shapers already startedb Expect all major brands (Duotone, North, F-One, Armstron, etc..) to trully reduce width soon.
3) The new category. A one-board-for-all, typically with same volume than rider's weight, width 19''-21'' and length shorter than 7' like the Sunova Carver, Amos Sultan Wing, Takoon Scape Wing, Cabrinha Swift, etc... I believe we will NOT see ALL major brands launching those kind of models.
What do you guys think ?
The Takoon Escape looks interesting with a very good price. Is there a specific wing versions? Could only find "escape" and "escape sw".
Has anyone tried it?
I tried the 6'8'' Escape SW (22'' width, 100lit) and it's great, easy, from 10 knt (6m2, 1300 foil) and 35 knt (3,5m2, 1200 foil). I'm 93 Kg.Solid, great construction board... but I can't compare with other similar boards.
Select to expand quotedejavu said..Faff said..MrFish said..
That looks well thought out to me ?!
Can it be jumped?
Here's the JP/NP video -- the R-Winger seems to be spending a good amount of time in the air.
What's the point of a 66 litre F-wing then? It's heavier as well.
Check out the KALAMA E3 boards been way ahead of the game for years. Now the barracuda has changed the game forever
Select to expand quoteArthurAlston said..
Pure DW boards will be used for winging by those who already have them and use them for DW. I don't see much advantage over a mid-length if you only use it for winging, in fact, there are only drawbacks.
True that. Unless you already own one going much over 6' for a wing board is of limited utility for folks of average weight. Yeah, you may get up a split second sooner on a dedicated downwind board but you're quickly going to find that winging in sub 10 kn isn't really worth pursuing (or at least I did). Went so far as to buy the latest greatest 5.5 wing only to discover that it offers virtually nothing over my 4.5. Biggest factors in descending order for starts are skill/technique, board, foil, ......wing.
Select to expand quoteThatspec said..ArthurAlston said..
Pure DW boards will be used for winging by those who already have them and use them for DW. I don't see much advantage over a mid-length if you only use it for winging, in fact, there are only drawbacks.
True that. Unless you already own one going much over 6' for a wing board is of limited utility for folks of average weight. Yeah, you may get up a split second sooner on a dedicated downwind board but you're quickly going to find that winging in sub 10 kn isn't really worth pursuing (or at least I did). Went so far as to buy the latest greatest 5.5 wing only to discover that it offers virtually nothing over my 4.5. Biggest factors in descending order for starts are skill/technique, board, foil, ......wing.
Wise words. I've just come from a 95L wide production board & recenty started winging a 7' x 20" DW board. I love it. I absolutely love the nose buoyancy & way it slices through the water like a yacht before launching. It also is so responsive & feels like a really small board in comparison to the production board when riding- there's not much board in front of me. I'm still a novice but I wonder if a 6' midlength board would be better? I started making my board just as the midlenght boards were starting to drop so had I waited a month or so & read some feedback I prob would have made it smaller. But then again I don't know what i'm missing.
Select to expand quoteMicrosurfer said..Thatspec said..ArthurAlston said..
Pure DW boards will be used for winging by those who already have them and use them for DW. I don't see much advantage over a mid-length if you only use it for winging, in fact, there are only drawbacks.
True that. Unless you already own one going much over 6' for a wing board is of limited utility for folks of average weight. Yeah, you may get up a split second sooner on a dedicated downwind board but you're quickly going to find that winging in sub 10 kn isn't really worth pursuing (or at least I did). Went so far as to buy the latest greatest 5.5 wing only to discover that it offers virtually nothing over my 4.5. Biggest factors in descending order for starts are skill/technique, board, foil, ......wing.
Wise words. I've just come from a 95L wide production board & recenty started winging a 7' x 20" DW board. I love it. I absolutely love the nose buoyancy & way it slices through the water like a yacht before launching. It also is so responsive & feels like a really small board in comparison to the production board when riding- there's not much board in front of me. I'm still a novice but I wonder if a 6' midlength board would be better? I started making my board just as the midlenght boards were starting to drop so had I waited a month or so & read some feedback I prob would have made it smaller. But then again I don't know what i'm missing.
I wouldn't regret what you've got at all. 7' is still phenomenal and you will get a ton of progression out of that board. I think I did over 80 sessions on my 8' barracuda and don't feel like I was missing out on anything at all.
Select to expand quoteMicrosurfer said..
I'm still a novice but I wonder if a 6' midlength board would be better?
Maybe not. I've noticed some length, adds momentum, smoothness, and flow to my surfing, jibes, and pumps. My wife has settled on 6'2, while I've settled at 6'8 as the magic combination.
@Bennis123
I have the Takoon Escape 8'0" (120 litre) and use that for foil sup (on the rare day with waves and no wind), DW sup and winging.
For winging I took it out on light days (5 tot 12 knots), but also with 20 tot 25 knots.
The board comes with footstraps inserts. I have not used them and can't see why I should. Board has bottom handle, that I only use to manoeuvre the board in/out the board bag and shed. I could do without the inserts and handle and save some weight.
What would make it 'wing specific' for you?
I would love to try a scaled down version of about 60 litres.
Select to expand quoteFlyingPeew said..
@Bennis123
I have the Takoon Escape 8'0" (120 litre) and use that for foil sup (on the rare day with waves and no wind), DW sup and winging.
For winging I took it out on light days (5 tot 12 knots), but also with 20 tot 25 knots.
The board comes with footstraps inserts. I have not used them and can't see why I should. Board has bottom handle, that I only use to manoeuvre the board in/out the board bag and shed. I could do without the inserts and handle and save some weight.
What would make it 'wing specific' for you?
I would love to try a scaled down version of about 60 litres.
Was just wondering if there's a model called "Escape wing" since the other poster mentioned that.
So I thought I'd screen cap the listed shapes to see what the general outlines are all about, my initial thoughts were geez let's take out our old windsurf wave boards and put tracks on th, about 2/3 from the nose ??
Interesting. Some companies say for Downwind and 'Light Wind' wing foiling. does no one see the irony in "light wind" wing foil, isn't that what brought us to winging in the first place (yeah I know we now all wing in all winds, just kidding) . ??
My 7" 2' JP SUP Foil is almost back in style . just a bit wide in the front, the back . and the middle for that matter.
As an aside, while the boards are getting longer, fuselages are getting shorter, check out these from Unifoil, 26cm, what next, Uniwings?.!,
Nice comparison! I guess they all are much more efficient to get on foil than the typical short box shape boards of the last years. But I wonder if they differ in stability. A part from width, what makes one more stable than others? I imagine the ones with a pointed back end(appletree skipper) are less stable than the ones with squared off back ends(omen flux).
My local spot often fluctuate between 16-10 knots within a session, and the water is choppy and messy. I'd love a board that can handle both low wind starts and chop.
Select to expand quoteBennis123 said..
Nice comparison! I guess they all are much more efficient to get on foil than the typical short box shape boards of the last years. But I wonder if they differ in stability. A part from width, what makes one more stable than others? I imagine the ones with a pointed back end(appletree skipper) are less stable than the ones with squared off back ends(omen flux).
My local spot often fluctuate between 16-10 knots within a session, and the water is choppy and messy. I'd love a board that can handle both low wind starts and chop.
I think talking about board design without talking about skills doesn't really work. A very skilled person is looking for very different things that someone that's still learning.
we ride foils, not boards. If you have the skills, the smaller the board the better. You will have better control over the foil. Of course if you can't get on foil, you need more help from the board. Same with foils, if you have the skills, the smaller HA foil you can use the better, but it will be a nightmare for someone learning to jibe.
A competent rider can get up with a sinker with 15 knots, an intermediate rider will need a larger wing, foil and board to get up with same wind.
I've been building my own boards lately. Great to try a few different styles. My go to of late has been 6'6"x21" @81kg(dry) it is fantastic. I used it today gusting 40knts overpowered on a 3m. It just gets on foil with so little effort, once on foil not a huge difference to shorter boards. The local wind is never consistent so being able to get through lulls is a plus.
Im making a 6'x20" to see how far I can push it for a one board quiver.
Down side to these narrow boards is stability in chop in strong winds, needs a bit more care, I've slid off mine a few times. I don't think I will go back to wide boards again (+21") funny how things evolve.
Select to expand quotergmacca said..
I've been building my own boards lately. Great to try a few different styles. My go to of late has been 6'6"x21" @81kg(dry) it is fantastic. I used it today gusting 40knts overpowered on a 3m. It just gets on foil with so little effort, once on foil not a huge difference to shorter boards. The local wind is never consistent so being able to get through lulls is a plus.
Im making a 6'x20" to see how far I can push it for a one board quiver.
Down side to these narrow boards is stability in chop in strong winds, needs a bit more care, I've slid off mine a few times. I don't think I will go back to wide boards again (+21") funny how things evolve.
Yeah interesting to see how things progress. I'm really loving my new 7'x20" but the board building bug has set in & I'm debating what size would be my next one. I tihnk I'll finish this season with my 7' & see what the feedback is like about the midlength shapes etc.
I haven't seen a DW board apart from my own one where I live & other wingers can't get their heads around having something bigger than 60-80L.
I feel like I shouldn't say it out loud but that Gong looks really good.
TBH I think the only reason I want to build a midlength is that board building can become obsessive & I "need" something else to build.
These mid-length (5'-6') boards with forward foil box ride like a shorter board with a similar volume when you are on foil. The narrowness of the board helps clear the waves when you crank upwind in the choppy sea or when you surf the swell.The downside is it is a bit harder to get to your feet in choppy conditions. But it is a good trade-off. You will get used to it like when you downsize the board. Here is my advice from another thread.I think I figured out the best method for getting up on your feet. Here is my detail on how to. This is easier than the stink bug method for the narrow board that roll from side to side easily.
Imagine you are in messy chop and strong wind with this board and want to start in a regular stance.
1. Climb up the board and kneel low. Just focus on the balance. The wing should be on the right side of your board.
2. If you don't do anything the wind and wave will push the board pointing the nose downwind. this gives you bit a more stability.
3. Grab the LE handle with the right hand and pass the LE handle to the left hand and grab the front handle with the right hand.
4. Twist the board using your wing to point the board to the beam reach (board perpendicular to the wind) the board should also move forward a little.
5. Pass the front handle from the right hand to the left hand and grab the rear handle with the right hand. The board is now moving fast cross wind and you are very stable and can stand up and ride off.
Steps 3-5 should be smooth and fast. Step 4 is very important you should twist the board when your hands are on the LE handle and front handle you have partial stability from the wing and when you turn you can gently twist the board in this position so the wind does not throw you off balance.
