As someone who is thinking about my next (second) board, I find the divergence in "DW" board design confusing. Seems that in some ways we are reliving my 40 years of windsurfing. KT with steps....discarded years ago in WS. Cabrinha "Swift" rocker looks like a banana....like a dedicated WS wave board. I don't see any flat in the promotional video. How can it be fast enough to lift off? And are they capitalizing on the Swift--Kelce romance??? This all reminds me of the flip tip boards from the late 1980s, the cutaway sails from the mid 1980s. Where are they now? WS board design finally converged in the 2010s to wider and thinner. I wonder how long it will take for wing boards to converge? I'm not complaining--this is how we move forward with design improvements. But some of it seems to be, "Look at mine, it's different."
The design objectives are completely different. A longer windsurfboard is still quicker to get gliding and often planing as a short and wide board. With a wingfoil, you simply want to get as quick as posible in that gliding phase, because then your foil lifts you out.
I,m 95-98kg depebning on time of year and have 3boards that I can wing on.My KT5.4x56l with all the stuff going on in the bottom. A bit longer and thinner as most boards of that volume, but due the extra length quicker on the foil as short/wide/thick boards as the Duotone with 75l for example.
Beause it is less wide you don,t have to stand in an offset and because its thinner you get a better /more direct feel of the foil.
AK Phazer5.6x27x90l..still relative long for a traditional board and very quick to get going but still significant slower to get up as the Sunova Carver 6.2x20x 95l. More as 5l does. The 6.2x20 Carver feels due the les width more maneuvrable as the 5.6x27AK.
Sunova Casey DW Elite 7.6x23x137l. I bought this to learn to DW, but i,m shocked by how good of a crossover it is. Yes you feel more swingweight as with the AK5.6, but I can still, jibe, tack, ride waves etc with it.
To ad a very intersting DW style board to the list that I have seen on the Boot-expo in Dusseldorf IRL and is now launched: Sab.
sabfoil.com/en/products/torpedo-100l
In europe E1650 for a full carbon/pvc reinforcement under the deck with a Bag sounds like a very good deal. The board looked very well made.
Mike, aha, good one! The old no-nose. Hey, pretty easy for the wingboard designers. Just move the foil further forward.
How about a Ginzu or a football foil, or maybe add a swallow tail to the board. Or maybe 3 concaves and 19 channels for early planing?!?! The possibilities for recycling from the age of Punk and Grunge are endless.
Yes, I'm poking fun but I do appreciate folks on this group sharing their actual experience with some of these new designs.
Select to expand quoteTaeyeony said..
These mid-length (5'-6') boards with forward foil box ride like a shorter board with a similar volume when you are on foil. The narrowness of the board helps clear the waves when you crank upwind in the choppy sea or when you surf the swell.The downside is it is a bit harder to get to your feet in choppy conditions. But it is a good trade-off. You will get used to it like when you downsize the board. Here is my advice from another thread.I think I figured out the best method for getting up on your feet. Here is my detail on how to. This is easier than the stink bug method for the narrow board that roll from side to side easily.
Imagine you are in messy chop and strong wind with this board and want to start in a regular stance.
1. Climb up the board and kneel low. Just focus on the balance. The wing should be on the right side of your board.
2. If you don't do anything the wind and wave will push the board pointing the nose downwind. this gives you bit a more stability.
3. Grab the LE handle with the right hand and pass the LE handle to the left hand and grab the front handle with the right hand.
4. Twist the board using your wing to point the board to the beam reach (board perpendicular to the wind) the board should also move forward a little.
5. Pass the front handle from the right hand to the left hand and grab the rear handle with the right hand. The board is now moving fast cross wind and you are very stable and can stand up and ride off.
Steps 3-5 should be smooth and fast. Step 4 is very important you should twist the board when your hands are on the LE handle and front handle you have partial stability from the wing and when you turn you can gently twist the board in this position so the wind does not throw you off balance.
Thanks for this post! On my first session with my new Appleskipper 5'11 (*22,5*92l) I went out in choppy conditions. After a while the wind unexpectedly increased >20knots. For me it was almost impossible to get foiling again using the stinkbug in the direction to the shore. Fortunately I managed to get foiling in the other direction. I felt relieved when I got back to the beach. Sea temperatures over here are about 6 celsius now. For me it was probably the most challenging wingfoiling start ever. Next time I will definitely try this method.
Select to expand quoteRolfB said..Taeyeony said..
These mid-length (5'-6') boards with forward foil box ride like a shorter board with a similar volume when you are on foil. The narrowness of the board helps clear the waves when you crank upwind in the choppy sea or when you surf the swell.The downside is it is a bit harder to get to your feet in choppy conditions. But it is a good trade-off. You will get used to it like when you downsize the board. Here is my advice from another thread.I think I figured out the best method for getting up on your feet. Here is my detail on how to. This is easier than the stink bug method for the narrow board that roll from side to side easily.
Imagine you are in messy chop and strong wind with this board and want to start in a regular stance.
1. Climb up the board and kneel low. Just focus on the balance. The wing should be on the right side of your board.
2. If you don't do anything the wind and wave will push the board pointing the nose downwind. this gives you bit a more stability.
3. Grab the LE handle with the right hand and pass the LE handle to the left hand and grab the front handle with the right hand.
4. Twist the board using your wing to point the board to the beam reach (board perpendicular to the wind) the board should also move forward a little.
5. Pass the front handle from the right hand to the left hand and grab the rear handle with the right hand. The board is now moving fast cross wind and you are very stable and can stand up and ride off.
Steps 3-5 should be smooth and fast. Step 4 is very important you should twist the board when your hands are on the LE handle and front handle you have partial stability from the wing and when you turn you can gently twist the board in this position so the wind does not throw you off balance.
Thanks for this post! On my first session with my new Appleskipper 5'11 (*22,5*92l) I went out in choppy conditions. After a while the wind unexpectedly increased >20knots. For me it was almost impossible to get foiling again using the stinkbug in the direction to the shore. Fortunately I managed to get foiling in the other direction. I felt relieved when I got back to the beach. Sea temperatures over here are about 6 celsius now. For me it was probably the most challenging wingfoiling start ever. Next time I will definitely try this method.
This is thw only reservation I have with buying a narrow board. Are some designs more stable while still being narrow and efficient?
Yes - look for harder rails. Most of the soft rail displacement hulls are very efficient but considerably tippier.
I think hard rail is kind of defeat the purpose of this style of board. The chine increases the board speed in the water and helps clear the wave once you are on foil.
Better up your skill. It only take a session to get used to it.
Select to expand quoteTaeyeony said..
These mid-length (5'-6') boards with forward foil box ride like a shorter board with a similar volume when you are on foil. The narrowness of the board helps clear the waves when you crank upwind in the choppy sea or when you surf the swell.The downside is it is a bit harder to get to your feet in choppy conditions.
I rode a mid length prone board for the first time this weekend, 5'6x18. The extra paddle power was great. Quite interesting was due to the relatively narrow tail, the back foot went over the rails very often trying to get some leverage. Easy to adjust to with a few waves, but I think this will be a problem for someone used to a very wide tailed wing board, especially if they ride with an offset stance and ride foils that need a lot of rider input to turn, either slow or large span foils. If you can't ride with relatively aligned stance then you may have a hard time adjusting.
Got a good price on this custom board: 6.07 feet, 20" wide, 81l. What do you guys think of the shape compared to Sunova Carver and Amos Sultan Wing?
Select to expand quoteBennis123 said..
Got a good price on this custom board: 6.07 feet, 20" wide, 81l. What do you guys think of the shape compared to Sunova Carver and Amos Sultan Wing?
Looks like a nice board. Will be interesting to hear the impact of the tail rocker (at least it looks like it has some tail rocker). Tracks look pretty far forward vs most boards but also looks like the wide point of the board is also slightly forward, which makes sense with the tracks. Dims are good and I'm sure it will work nicely. Let us know...
This board looks great.What's the price ? Is it carbon made ? weight ?What's your weight ?
Select to expand quotecornwallis said..Taeyeony said..
These mid-length (5'-6') boards with forward foil box ride like a shorter board with a similar volume when you are on foil. The narrowness of the board helps clear the waves when you crank upwind in the choppy sea or when you surf the swell.The downside is it is a bit harder to get to your feet in choppy conditions.
I rode a mid length prone board for the first time this weekend, 5'6x18. The extra paddle power was great. Quite interesting was due to the relatively narrow tail, the back foot went over the rails very often trying to get some leverage. Easy to adjust to with a few waves, but I think this will be a problem for someone used to a very wide tailed wing board, especially if they ride with an offset stance and ride foils that need a lot of rider input to turn, either slow or large span foils. If you can't ride with relatively aligned stance then you may have a hard time adjusting.
That's what JP have stated there design helps to eliminate.
Select to expand quoteFranP said..
This board looks great.What's the price ? Is it carbon made ? weight ?What's your weight ?
Haven't asked about the weight or construction. It's about 900usd used as demo board. I weight about 80kg without wetsuit.
I'm a little reluctant to go strapless as I find straps often saves me when I screw up transitions or in heavy chop, but I hope I'll get used to it.
Been testing my own stubby
Modified wavesail board and it's pretty sweet ride once the balance fulcrum point was pinpointed
then we scooped the deck, to give it a springlike back leg compression
very interesting result.
amazing to start. Just glides away thru chop etc
have used tail shimming to get the mast even further forward and remove swing weight in the transitions
not my first long board mod
this one is 99ltrs and I got a lot right. It's s-turn heaven. And safe as out the back off shore
can follow along on Facebook or Instagram
@wingfoilSafaris
There's No end of DW or Hybrid wing foil boards being released by one and all but really overall they are basically Kalama copies.Copying his original chined hull design in various ways.He Dave Kalama must be honoured to know that so many similar variations to his design principles is becoming available.I have three Kalama E 3 s in varying lengths widths,volumes and love them.
Select to expand quotejksmurf said..
... my initial thoughts were geez let's take out our old windsurf wave boards and put tracks on th, about 2/3 from the nose ??
almost that simple.
i did just that. 3yrs ago with a scooped deck racing slalom board . Got my first taste of gybing a long board. and easy starts
but you nailed it.
wavesail boards are just that awesome factor better. and yeah about 2/3 (or look for the parallel hull section to install the box) my wavesail has rocker thru till about 1/2 way. So started there approx and went with a custom 22in box. It's interesting but I ended up liking the foil very far forward,
Select to expand quoteBoracay.Villas said..jksmurf said..
... my initial thoughts were geez let's take out our old windsurf wave boards and put tracks on th, about 2/3 from the nose ??
almost that simple.
i did just that. 3yrs ago with a scooped deck racing slalom board . Got my first taste of gybing a long board. and easy starts
but you nailed it.
wavesail boards are just that awesome factor better. and yeah about 2/3 (or look for the parallel hull section to install the box) my wavesail has rocker thru till about 1/2 way. So started there approx and went with a custom 22in box. It's interesting but I ended up liking the foil very far forward,
Yup, just struck me when you see them lined up.. and you've got a nice spot to experiment, shallow warm water just watch the sea urchins. JPs little rear deck is like something from an aircraft carrier.
Haha Boracay, first went there around '97, went about 10 times while wife was learning to windsurf, good flat water spot and cheap beer, but Vietnam, then Greece, then Mauritius lured us in for waves. Went last year at CNY (I was recovering from a back op but wife went windsurfing) for a nostalgia trip. Elec tuk-Turks were a good change.
Send my regards to Horst and Errol and Danny (if he's still alive .)
k.
Select to expand quoteBoracay.Villas said..jksmurf said..
... my initial thoughts were geez let's take out our old windsurf wave boards and put tracks on th, about 2/3 from the nose ??
almost that simple.
i did just that. 3yrs ago with a jksmurf said..
JPs little rear deck is like something from an aircraft carrier.
That's the only modification still to do.
cut the 4 fins out leaving the top deck intact (tail extenders) as per the aircraft carrier from JP because I do not wish to give up the obvious speed takeoff.
Just looking to shed weight off the tail. it feels a little backend heavy to my pro-rider mate. Kite doctor
I've been riding the Takoon Ultra Glide 6'2 (80L) since September and have been really enjoying it. Far superior take-off and because you stand more centrally it doesn't feel too large. It is slightly narrower than my Takoon Glide V2 4'10" board used for stronger wind, but the amount of board in front of you feels about the same.
int.takoon.com/products/ultra-glide
Since the Ultra Glide board arrived I have used it for almost all sessions because it makes getting up on foil easier and is still fun to ride in stronger wind. I did have one session on the smaller 4'10" board last week and it felt like riding through treacle in comparison to get going, even with plenty of wind. I am almost convinced to switch to a single light wind style board for all winging as it allows a smaller foil and hand wing to be used with little downside. The Ultra Glide weighs 5.89kg.
Select to expand quoteslashdotdash said..
I've been riding the Takoon Ultra Glide 6'2 (80L) since September and have been really enjoying it. Far superior take-off and because you stand more centrally it doesn't feel too large. It is slightly narrower than my Takoon Glide V2 4'10" board used for stronger wind, but the amount of board in front of you feels about the same.
int.takoon.com/products/ultra-glide
Since the Ultra Glide board arrived I have used it for almost all sessions because it makes getting up on foil easier and is still fun to ride in stronger wind. I did have one session on the smaller 4'10" board last week and it felt like riding through treacle in comparison to get going, even with plenty of wind. I am almost convinced to switch to a single light wind style board for all winging as it allows a smaller foil and hand wing to be used with little downside. The Ultra Glide weighs 5.89kg.
What is your weight? Takoon advise 10-20l above weight in kg and wondered if you followed that?
Takoon ultra glide looks good. From the look and spec they seem to do it right. Slightly longer, a little bit wider but thinner than the similar volume board from other brands.
I think 10L above your dry weight will be fine.
Select to expand quoteMilesH said..
What is your weight? Takoon advise 10-20l above weight in kg and wondered if you followed that?
I weigh 63Kg so went for the 6'2" at 80L (+15L). I did confirm this with Takoon before buying the board. If I was buying again I'd go for the 6'0" (75L) as the 80L easily floats me. I initially bought the Ultra Glide only for light wind winging, the 6'2" was the largest board I could easily fit into the back of my car, but it is so good that I use it almost always now.
Select to expand quoteslashdotdash said..MilesH said..
What is your weight? Takoon advise 10-20l above weight in kg and wondered if you followed that?
I weigh 63Kg so went for the 6'2" at 80L (+15L). I did confirm this with Takoon before buying the board. If I was buying again I'd go for the 6'0" (75L) as the 80L easily floats me. I initially bought the Ultra Glide only for light wind winging, the 6'2" was the largest board I could easily fit into the back of my car, but it is so good that I use it almost always now.
Thanks I have the 90l Glide v2 and was tempted with the ultra glide for light wind (I'm circa 85-90kg with wetsuit etc).....but rumours are they are bringing out a revised shape soon so I may wait.
Hi, question for this forum. I come from windsurf-windfoil and last season I started winging. I am quickly progressing but still a beg/int as I still need to improve pumping technique and improve consistency on jibes. my board is really not suitable for wing foil, it is a SS freestyle 115 and I am 5'10" and 76kg. Foils tracks are located all the way back and are fine for the first few flights, but not great after that.Everyone around here has moved to dragonflies and barracudas but have not had a chance to try them. I am a little intimidated by the width, but I need to get a new board this season to keep progressing and I am wondering if I should just get one of those, or if the new Carver/Flux/Torpedo with a shorter length and a 20" width have 85%-90% of the efficiency in light wind while staying a little more compact , stable and manageable.Around here in summer we often have that 8-12 knots breeze, very flat water, and when it is >18knots I am back on my windsurf.
I really do not want to keep swapping board/foil every other year, I rather buy something that works and I can keep even if I need to struggle for a couple sessions and then spend time/money refine my technique.
Select to expand quotemassi said..
.Around here in summer we often have that 8-12 knots breeze
We get lots of days around that wind range and nearly everyone around here as moved to a 7 foot DW board (Naish, Kalama, Duotone).
Get a long downwind board, a large foil and large wing (it will get up and going in that wind range).
Select to expand quotemassi said..
Hi, question for this forum. I come from windsurf-windfoil and last season I started winging. I am quickly progressing but still a beg/int as I still need to improve pumping technique and improve consistency on jibes. my board is really not suitable for wing foil, it is a SS freestyle 115 and I am 5'10" and 76kg. Foils tracks are located all the way back and are fine for the first few flights, but not great after that.Everyone around here has moved to dragonflies and barracudas but have not had a chance to try them. I am a little intimidated by the width, but I need to get a new board this season to keep progressing and I am wondering if I should just get one of those, or if the new Carver/Flux/Torpedo with a shorter length and a 20" width have 85%-90% of the efficiency in light wind while staying a little more compact , stable and manageable.Around here in summer we often have that 8-12 knots breeze, very flat water, and when it is >18knots I am back on my windsurf.
I really do not want to keep swapping board/foil every other year, I rather buy something that works and I can keep even if I need to struggle for a couple sessions and then spend time/money refine my technique.
IMO For light wind and flat water long and narrow is the go. 7' and boxes very forward. You will get use to the width quickly. It will become uncomfortable over 20knots, but you will be windsurfing!
Select to expand quotemassi said..
I need to get a new board this season to keep progressing and I am wondering if I should just get one of those, or if the new Carver/Flux/Torpedo with a shorter length and a 20" width have 85%-90% of the efficiency in light wind while staying a little more compact , stable and manageable.Around here in summer we often have that 8-12 knots breeze, very flat water, and when it is >18knots I am back on my windsurf.
I really do not want to keep swapping board/foil every other year, I rather buy something that works and I can keep even if I need to struggle for a couple sessions and then spend time/money refine my technique.
Similar situation here, but at 63kg and often even lighter wind range target...I'm debating just what to get while seeing what comes out in the next couple months. But I know I'm not getting a 7'+ board because of space and transportation issues alone (not to mention my weight)...and you tend to pay for the extra materials. And of course its a continuum where you know you are going to trade away easier board speed as you go shorter and/or wider. I'm going to make an educated guess, trade a way some of that easy board speed to have a smaller package, and buy something that makes sense at the time and then I'll just have that board and won't know any different (love the one you're with!)...but it will sure as hell be easier getting up in light wind than what I currently have and am really looking forward to it (along with a new foil and upgrade in wings).
Hadn't seen the Sabfoil Torpedo yet...looks really good...but I'm going to wait and see what AppleTree has coming out before pulling the trigger on anything
Select to expand quoteSpokeyDoke said..massi said..
I need to get a new board this season to keep progressing and I am wondering if I should just get one of those, or if the new Carver/Flux/Torpedo with a shorter length and a 20" width have 85%-90% of the efficiency in light wind while staying a little more compact , stable and manageable.Around here in summer we often have that 8-12 knots breeze, very flat water, and when it is >18knots I am back on my windsurf.
I really do not want to keep swapping board/foil every other year, I rather buy something that works and I can keep even if I need to struggle for a couple sessions and then spend time/money refine my technique.
Similar situation here, but at 63kg and often even lighter wind range target...I'm debating just what to get while seeing what comes out in the next couple months. But I know I'm not getting a 7'+ board because of space and transportation issues alone...and you tend to pay for the extra materials. And of course its a continuum where you know you are going to trade away easier board speed as you go shorter and/or wider. I'm going to make an educated guess, trade a way some of that easy board speed to have a smaller package, and buy something that makes sense at the time and then I'll just have that board and won't know any different (love the one you're with!)...but it will sure as hell be easier getting up in light wind than what I currently have and am really looking forward to it (along with a new foil and upgrade in wings).
Hadn't seen the Sabfoil Torpedo yet...looks really good...but I'm going to wait and see what AppleTree has coming out before pulling the trigger on anything
Have you tried any DW boards yet at all? You mention 7+, but with just 63 kg you won't need all that length and you can easily get away with the smallest ones for all your winging needs. I am 10 kg heavier and for winging in the ultimate lightest winds (and with ridiculously small foils) the 6'9'' as in this clip is all I need. If seeking for a one board solution that would cover all conditions wait for some new ones that will start popping up soon, but for a 2 boards quiver and for performance riding go with a 88 L Dragonfly as your big board.
Select to expand quoteTaavi said
Have you tried any DW boards yet at all? You mention 7+, but with just 63 kg you won't need all that length and you can easily get away with the smallest ones for all your winging needs. I am 10 kg heavier and for winging in the ultimate lightest winds (and with ridiculously small foils) the 6'9'' as in this clip is all I need. If seeking for a one board solution that would cover all conditions wait for some new ones that will start popping up soon, but for a 2 boards quiver and for performance riding go with a 88 L Dragonfly as your big board.
I think you are right...small Dragonfly or Apple Skipper DW would likely do really well (then maybe a new shape sinker for a second board later on)...going to try to wait...should be a super fun year!
