The Second Board

I know that with the bigger Kalama E3 the boxxes are too far to the back for Axis.Besides that, ...its not a very stable board for its volume/sizes and there are better alternatives nowadays.

I get completely that you want a smaller board, but unless you are fixxed to certain sizes because of transport I think you want a smaller board feel


Keep in mind that some boards that are in total length longer feel smaller due the position of the mast tracks, when you stand on them.For example, my AKPhazer 5.6x27x90l felt bigger as the SAB Torpedo of 6.3x20x100l because the Torpedo had the boxxes a LOT further forward. This made me stance more central so I had actually LESS board in front of me while flying. With you old Naish yo are pretty much standing on the back so every mid length, including 7ft boards will still feel a lot smaller to you.

reading that you live in france: have you considered the AFS Whitbird? I tried the 115l board and it was a fun one (and yes I know its slightly longer as your list).I,m 188x98kg and for me it was too big but it felt quick up to the foil, maneuverable and with a good volume distribution.

Thanks guys, every opinion is always interesting and constructive !!!

Jeroensurf, yes of course I looked at AFS and I contacted them, given my research, they would advise me 3 boards:

- Fly One of 6'2 x 27'1/2 and 115 liters
- Whitebird of 6'8 x 23' and 115 liters
- Blackbird of 6'4 x 23'5 and 110 liters

The Fly One really seems to me to be a "school" board and I'm afraid that it won't be different enough in the end from my Naish 6'6 even if it is 4 inches less in length, 5.5 inches less in width and 25 liters less ....
The White and BlackBird would perhaps be more "technical" at the beginning but according to the AFS guys, big guys love these boards.

So actually I'm going to put the Blackbird 6'4 x 23'5 of 110 liters on my shortlist ....

After my hesitation on the type of shape (Mid Length or "small big") it is mainly to try to make the best choice for my "progression", that it is done quietly without struggling when changing boards .... I am tall (1m89) and heavy (+/-110kg) and the small width scares me a little in terms of stability on the lifting phase knowing that as soon as the wind starts to blow hard it forms a very very sensitive short swell which can be unpleasant ....

Today I continue to think about the advantages and disadvantages of each type of board and make a "short list" which evolves every day:

- Armstrong FG 5'11 x 26'1/4 and 120 liters (apparently very solid, and perhaps one of the most "modern" of "small big")

- AFS BlackBird 6'4 x 23'5 and 110 liters

- Kalama E3 6'5 x 23'5 and 116 liters (to see the story of box for the Axis foils but the opinions differ quite a bit .... )

- JP X-Winger Pro 6'1 x 28' and 122 liters

- Smik Custom, the advantage is that I see directly with the Boss and he makes me custom .....

You're gonna get paralysis by analysis bro. There is no perfect board, bite the bullet & choose the one you like the paint job of. At the end of the day you spend a lot of time looking at it so grab a pretty one.

Its your list/money/board and i,m not aviliated to anthing or anybody, but based on what you write about your needs I would go longer and less wide.Boards like the Whitebird arent,t extreme with there 23width.I would stay away of the 19 wide board as a 2th board. I really liked the Swift and Torpedo, but its too difficult as an progression board. Tose are imo more an advanced rider extra Lightwind board. At the same time, with the knowledge of now I wouldnt go back to 26+ eitherThe wider JP/Armstrong are gonna be less quick to get on the foil and have less control in really windy days.I borrowed my KT SuperK92l (6.5x22x92l) weekend to my pal to try and grabbed my older AL Phazer V2 5.6x27x90l that sess and we switched a bit forth and back on the water. We both agreed that the SuperK felt way more stable because of the length AND was easier to fly because more length helps to balance a bit more and seem to catch less wind under the board as the wider ones.

50y old. 188x 98kg, due some medical bad luck most of my left foot (and, im goofy) isnt working so I only have a working big toe to balance things out, the rest of the foot is still there, but tendons and muscles are taken away so don,t add much stability. Because of that I also ride strapless and with shoes to keep a bit more grip that i don,t have when riding barefoot.longtime wavesailor and, supper from the Netherlands, doing okay, having heaps of fun but not super tallented.Started 4y ago with wingfoil on a Fanatic 5.8 x110l .Progressed after a year to an AK Phazer 5.8x27x90l.From there I bought an 4.9x 21x 60l Appletree Slice V2. that board didnt work for me. (the guy who owns it now loves it!)The less length made it for me unstable when sitting on my knees amd starting (too stiff for the rodeo sit start and in really chaotic water a stinkbug start can be very difficult as well).
I tried an KT 5.4x22l board on the local lake and that was awesome thinking it was 75l or something like that.....Later finding out it was 56l!
For me that was the moment that I realized that with wingfoiling as with prone surfing, sup and windsurfing length adds more stability as width.
I bought that KT wingdrifter 5.4x22x56l for strong wind and kept the AK90l for lightwind (upgraded to the newer 5.6).
DW sufoil came along, for me as a long time supper this was the combo i was looking for. a grweat blend of my 2 favourite sports.

Summer 2023 I bought an Sunova Casey Elite 7.6x23x137l to make it not too difficult for myself. Wingfoiled on it and that was sooo easy. I could litteraly get a meter smaller wing or a smaller foil for the same windspeeds to get going and still do tacks etc. Supfoiling in the waves was heaps of fun, but haven,t downdwind much because I broke last autumn my ankle and balancing on a DW is espcislly hard for that.
The Wingdrifter 5.4x22x56l and the Sunova 7.6x23x137l made me really think about what attributes in a shape I really like and make life easier and made me realize that a bit more length and less width works really well for me, just in tome with the new intruduced midlength boards...
Tried a LOT of difference Midlength and got myself the KT SuperK 6.5x22x 92l wich feels bigger, more stable, quicker up the foil and better handling as my AK5.6x27x90l...so that is why I advice everybody except freestylers and very light young guys to look into midlength. ;)

I think it is very hard to isolate it to hard numbers.
You have to see thickness in correlation to the rest of the shape... to give 2 examples: The Sab Torpedo 100l of 6.2x 19.9wide and 6,06 thick flat bottom and smallish tail ith a thick V was very eager to roll over. That was partly width, but also thickness. Make a board like that 4 thick and it is more stable.

My Sunova 7.6x23x137l x6.1/4thick with a wider tail and double concave is pretty stable.
Partly due the extra width, but also du the concaves and wider outline adding a lot of stability.

I kind of need to know what Ben selected.

Hi all,

Looking for some advice on midlengths (which is more or less what this thread is about).

My previous board, a JP Freefoil 130l broke due to a defect, so I need to get a new board. I'm curious about midlengths but not sure if it's too soon for me.

Bit of background on me & my level: I'm 90 kilos, have a windsurfing background, wind foiled 5-ish times before swapping to winging which I've done probably 6-7 times. I've had no real issues flying around on my old big board and an Axis HPS 980 foil (previously using a spitfire 1100 which I actually found to be much harder to use than the HPS 980, probably to no surprise to anyone as everyone says the spitfires are a more intermediate foil). I'm foiling into & occasionally most way around gybes but never actually foiled out of a gybe, partially because I can't ride toe-side yet which is something I still need to learn. Unfortunately I've only had one foiling session on my HPS 980 before my board broke, and that was going really well for a time but the wind kept building and I ended up miles overpowered, so not much progress was made.

I'm comparing the following two boards:Duotone sky free 115L: 5'7"/170cm long, 28"/71cm wide.
Duotone skybrid 100L: 5'10"/177cm long, 22.75"/57.8cm wide.

For reference the dimensions of the old board were: 130L, 6'9"/207cm long, 30.3"/77cm wide.
Everyone says positive things about midlengths & that they're not as unstable on the roll axis as they may appear on paper, but my worry is that it's going to be too challenging for me at my level. I'm still expecting to be needing to water start quite often until I get the hang of these gybes, either because I fall in mid gybe, or I stall at the end of the gybe and probably fall off (particularly if the board was narrow - on the freefoil I was often able to stall and stay standing on the board).

Thoughts?

Wow, hot topic. Looks still like rapid evolution and opinion change for all involved. I will pipe in just because I am 110kg. I started on a Fanatic sky wing 125 liter. I sail mostly flat water and lighter winds, but also big choppy bay conditions. Your 125 liter mark will ensure good comfortable float. I went custom about this time last year. 6'10"/21.5/125liter Amos Sultan. Yes, as was pointed out, there is a 1-2 session adjustment to the the tippy nature when you climb on the board, but after that, it is not noticeable. The earlier take off will astound you and you will realize that you pump better and make less contact with the water carving despite the significant increase in board length due the design and track placement. I am now on the 6'10"/21.0/115liter version. I unfortunately had to replace the first board under warranty. I chose to eliminate footstrap inserts and reduce the volume slightly on my replacement board.

Good luck!