Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Electric Catamaran

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Created by Macroscien > 9 months ago, 4 Nov 2012
d1
WA, 304 posts
5 Nov 2012 12:02PM
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Sorry Skid, believe you may have meant:


The sail!
The sail will use less the same amount of energy to travel over the same distance, but at least wind energy is much "greener".


Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
5 Nov 2012 2:33PM
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d1 said...
Sorry Skid, believe you may have meant:


The sail!
The sail will use less the same amount of energy to travel over the same distance, but at least wind energy is much "greener".




greener then sun energy ??
Wind is ok for recreational use but not really for transportation.

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
5 Nov 2012 12:50PM
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100km? !!!
Make sure you take an EPIRB and a mobile phone in a waterproof bag that floats when you drop it overboard.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
5 Nov 2012 4:56PM
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Macroscien said...
greener then sun energy ??
Wind is ok for recreational use but not really for transportation.


Depends on how good a sailor you are. Wind powered vessels have been known to travel around the world and some of them moved people and stuff too.

Personally I'd rather travel on a 14 foot cat with a sail crossing a choppy bay than one with a bunch of solar panels, inverters, batteries, wires and stuff.

d1
WA, 304 posts
5 Nov 2012 1:58PM
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Macroscien said...
greener then sun energy ??
Wind is ok for recreational use but not really for transportation.


Magellan, Columbus, Da Gama, Cook, etc..., must have had it wrong all along

Edit: Moby beat me to it.

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
5 Nov 2012 6:08PM
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kiteboy dave said...
Put all the weight in the back and jack it out.. womp womp womp <spray>>>>>>


You said "womp" too!?

We used to have duels, where we'd start at either end of a canal and try to time the spray as we passed each other.

Then we started skurfing. This eventually evolved into a body board that we'd whip around and up onto the beach. You could travel along the beach (wave break) for dozens of metres. Of course we ended up building massive jumping ramps out of sand.

Parking on wave break involved driving flat out at the beach. Turn off motor when you hit the sand. drive up beach maybe 8 metres. Step out.

Those were the days.

Skid
QLD, 1499 posts
5 Nov 2012 5:42PM
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d1 said...
Sorry Skid, believe you may have meant:


The sail!
The sail will use less the same amount of energy to travel over the same distance, but at least wind energy is much "greener".





^^Yes, that is what I meant

Skid
QLD, 1499 posts
5 Nov 2012 5:48PM
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Macroscien said...
d1 said...
Sorry Skid, believe you may have meant:


The sail!
The sail will use less the same amount of energy to travel over the same distance, but at least wind energy is much "greener".




greener then sun energy ??
Wind is ok for recreational use but not really for transportation.



Yes, greener than sun energy. Unless, of course, you ignore the manufacture (and eventual disposal) of the panels and batteries.
Macroscien, I have my doubts about your project, but wish you luck none the less.

deejay8204
QLD, 557 posts
5 Nov 2012 6:28PM
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Good luck to you macro,

I have to agree with the weight issues, might be a bit on the heavy side. but at least someone out there is willing to try something, and not sitting at home doing nothing but ditching someone ideas.

Go for it Macro, but get an EPIRB:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EPIRB-MT400-by-GME-406-MHz-6-Year-plus-battery-life-/120580561805?pt=AU_Boat_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c13295b8d&_uhb=1

it will save your life and anyone elses if there is an issue.

nev
NSW, 55 posts
5 Nov 2012 8:50PM
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good luck with it. A hydra's hull's would be very easy to push so I don't think you will need as much power as you think. I used to have a 20 foot windrush cat and the little 2.5hp suzuki pushed it up to hull speed allmost as well as a 5hp but heaps quiter and lighter. I would stick with the rudders for turning and have the motor fixed. Dont know how comfortable it would sitting on a 16 foot cat for 200km though.
if $ are no problem, Torqeedo motors are really good as far as electrics go. have seen them pushing 30ft river boats.

post some pics of what you come up with

nev

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
5 Nov 2012 8:00PM
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evlPanda said...
kiteboy dave said...
Put all the weight in the back and jack it out.. womp womp womp <spray>>>>>>


You said "womp" too!?

We used to have duels, where we'd start at either end of a canal and try to time the spray as we passed each other.

Then we started skurfing. This eventually evolved into a body board that we'd whip around and up onto the beach. You could travel along the beach (wave break) for dozens of metres. Of course we ended up building massive jumping ramps out of sand.

Parking on wave break involved driving flat out at the beach. Turn off motor when you hit the sand. drive up beach maybe 8 metres. Step out.

Those were the days.




Lol yes I said "skurfing" too.

If I remember right you had to time it when the nose bounced down and touched the water, jam the tiller into yourself hard. Then as it went up for the next bounce it would kick out and slam your corner.

Even made a board, cut down a busted old surf board with an electric planer, screwed on hose pipe foot straps, and sealed it all up with some kinda waterproof paint. Surprisingly, it worked ok.

My days as a tinny fiend weren't that long. I started out in a borrowed one, then got a 10' ultralight one real cheap from some schoolmates. Turned out a month or so later that they'd swum across the river at night and flogged it, which was why it had not rego stickers or plate.

Same fellas took me for a ride in their lark which had a brand new tiller drive 40hp on it. They normally had 6hp with a steering wheel setup for hiring to tourists. 2 of us had to literally sit on the bow with our legs hanging over while the 3rd kid reached back and give it full throttle. The thing stood up vertical. When she came down it was pretty mad though.



Turns out they'd flogged the boat and motor seperately on more night raids... they ended up getting busted for the lot, kicked out of school etc.

d1
WA, 304 posts
5 Nov 2012 8:27PM
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deejay8204 said...
at least someone out there is willing to try something, and not sitting at home doing nothing but ditching someone ideas.


This is so very true!

Macro, I'm a big fan of your enthusiasm and fresh ideas, and especially liked your "Crowd-Sourced Board" proposal. Keep them coming please!

deejay8204
QLD, 557 posts
5 Nov 2012 10:32PM
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d1 said...
deejay8204 said...
at least someone out there is willing to try something, and not sitting at home doing nothing but ditching someone ideas.


This is so very true!

Macro, I'm a big fan of your enthusiasm and fresh ideas, and especially liked your "Crowd-Sourced Board" proposal. Keep them coming please!



If all people can say is "it's not going to work" give a reason and a solution, if u don't have a solution don't bother replying.

Macro, if u were to have wind generators that would help with keeping batteries charged, that's what yacht sailors use now isn't it?

theDoctor
NSW, 5780 posts
5 Nov 2012 11:53PM
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what would work is a pressure differential device

where by a higher pressure is captured by the craft and creates an opposing lower pressure that draws upon the higher pressure in an effort to create equilibrium and hence moves the entire craft forward...



elmo
WA, 8725 posts
5 Nov 2012 9:14PM
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www.solarsailor.com/

Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
5 Nov 2012 11:39PM
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report of the progress in work
- I need to get the trailer registered, Just checking lights and there is something surprising : two lights on one side and only one on another. Is is legal ? Or I need to fix it first before trying to register ?? The previous owner claim that is was registered just like that



-I found the easy way to attach outboard motor without any modification to the boat itself. Just smart and cheap attachment made old $20 trolley
Should be good enough for experiments



I hope to get on the water this week. Hulls seems to be in good condition, beside one soft spot at the rear, looks like somebody make some repairs to fibreglass.
I wonder if there is any way to access to the inside of the hull trough this blue top panels. Beside repair this soft spot there could be perfect space inside the hulls for battery bank. Not sure about petrol tank

Skid
QLD, 1499 posts
5 Nov 2012 11:59PM
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Re: the trailer lights, I think it varies from state to state. Some states require two tail/brake lights on trailers, others require only one. (that was from talking with a trailer maker some years ago in SA, may be different now)

Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
23 Nov 2012 11:29PM
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I did first run with my modified catamaran last week.
At first with 6HP Suzuki outboard. Because is brand new I was allowed to run it only at 50-70% revolution.
I am quite impress with speed and efficiency. GPS reading shown around 17 km/h max and average fuel consumption was below 1 litre an hour for whole trip.
Whole trip take about one hour and half. Then I had still petrol in 1.5L internal tank.



Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
23 Nov 2012 11:55PM
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First test is quite encouraging and the goal was met.
Propeller was at right depth most of the time.
I heard that to higher speed I may need to replace propeller with different pitch.

Is it right ?

Now I could prepare a bit stronger frame instead of my very rudimentary engine mount.
I started work today with purchase of new MIG welder to construct proper frame, but
possibly I made some mistake.
I bought UNI-MIG 180 but after unpacking realized that item that suppose to be new product was already returned to the shop and half of the items missing (gas valve including ! ).
Anybody could advice on good and cheap MIG welder for mild steel ?
up to $500 ?

IN the meantime I took to pieces my 48V lithium battery and will try to rebuild as 24V to match my 24 v electric outboard 1.1kW.
That will be very interesting to find out what speed we could achieve with that one

FormulaNova
WA, 14665 posts
24 Nov 2012 5:56AM
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Macroscien said...

I started work today with purchase of new MIG welder to construct proper frame, but
possibly I made some mistake.
I bought UNI-MIG 180 but after unpacking realized that item that suppose to be new product was already returned to the shop and half of the items missing (gas valve including ! ).
Anybody could advice on good and cheap MIG welder for mild steel ?
up to $500 ?



I am not sure you can get a good MIG for up to $500, but I haven't looked for ages.

I bought a Transmig 135 years ago and out of the box it was not very good. I had to fix a few things before it became better.

I think this guy is base in Qld somewhere, and he might be able to help you:

www.bobthewelder.com.au/

gibberjoe
SA, 956 posts
24 Nov 2012 8:33AM
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46 feet difference in the height i dont understand that. It would seem that you had your craft on the trailer towing it around and the gps recording,, so to me, your figures are loopy, i,e, suspect.

dorothyinste
QLD, 453 posts
24 Nov 2012 10:24AM
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FormulaNova said...
Macroscien said...






I bought a Transmig 135 years ago and out of the box it was not very good. I had to fix a few things before it became better.





WOW...135 years ago...did not know they made Mig welders back then.

Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
24 Nov 2012 10:43AM
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dorothyinste said...
FormulaNova said...
Macroscien said...






I bought a Transmig 135 years ago and out of the box it was not very good. I had to fix a few things before it became better.





WOW...135 years ago...did not know they made Mig welders back then.


which mean that is really good quality when still works
I brought that one new straight from the shop and doesn't

Really good website FormulaN with BOB. I like all this range of accessories and everything in one place !!

Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
24 Nov 2012 10:47AM
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gibberjoe said...

46 feet difference in the height i dont understand that. It would seem that you had your craft on the trailer towing it around and the gps recording,, so to me, your figures are loopy, i,e, suspect.

we have very high tides, or waves up here
All GPS recordings are made on smartphone S2.

FormulaNova
WA, 14665 posts
24 Nov 2012 11:47AM
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dorothyinste said...
FormulaNova said...
Macroscien said...






I bought a Transmig 135 years ago and out of the box it was not very good. I had to fix a few things before it became better.





WOW...135 years ago...did not know they made Mig welders back then.



What, you thought MIG was a recent invention? The old one was already 50 years old when I needed to replace it.





pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
24 Nov 2012 1:24PM
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Macroscien said...
blah blah blah,..
IN the meantime I took to pieces my 48V lithium battery and will try to rebuild as 24V to match my 24 v electric outboard 1.1kW.
That will be very interesting to find out what speed we could achieve with that one



You probably know all about lithium batteries already, but in case you don't, lithium batteries are not like other rechargable batteries. They don't share the charge evenly when wired in series.
Batteries greater than single cell configuration need a balancing circuit to charge all cells evenly, otherwise much smoke and loud bang. The balance circuit is usually incorporated into the battery case and connects to each cell individually.
I mention this because when you start cutting out cells and rewiring in a different configuration (series/parallel) you need to make sure the balance circuit is intact and correct for the number of cells you have.
Make sure this is done correctly because large capacity lithium cells can go off like a bomb.

Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
24 Nov 2012 7:19PM
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pweedas said...
Macroscien said...
blah blah blah,..
IN the meantime I took to pieces my 48V lithium battery and will try to rebuild as 24V to match my 24 v electric outboard 1.1kW.
That will be very interesting to find out what speed we could achieve with that one



You probably know all about lithium batteries already, but in case you don't, lithium batteries are not like other rechargable batteries. They don't share the charge evenly when wired in series.
Batteries greater than single cell configuration need a balancing circuit to charge all cells evenly, otherwise much smoke and loud bang. The balance circuit is usually incorporated into the battery case and connects to each cell individually.
I mention this because when you start cutting out cells and rewiring in a different configuration (series/parallel) you need to make sure the balance circuit is intact and correct for the number of cells you have.
Make sure this is done correctly because large capacity lithium cells can go off like a bomb.

This is usually the problem with Chinese Lithium battery already that supplied BMS are very poor quality. In my experience the 48V 20Ah battery upper cut of voltage was usually at 56v- means than battery was never properly charged then cut of when battery was discharged to 50v- means that my electric bike (1000W) did 10 -15 km on this exactly battery then I had to pedal hard to back home.
Now I will replace BSM or build my own.
If you know any source for good BMS that could handle my rebuild bank 24V -40Ah-80 Ah (since I want to use second battery too) let me know

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
24 Nov 2012 6:54PM
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You could look around the model shops. Electric planes and helicopters have gotten bigger and bigger over the last ten years so there must be some big chargers and battery management systems to suit some big batteries for them.
Unfortunately, model shop stuff gets a bit pricey when the models get bigger.
Charge voltage per cell should stop at 4.2 volts exactly. Any more and the cell is damaged,. permanently.
Any less won't damage the cell but the charge capacity drops off rapidly below 4.2 volts.
Without a good balance system you are wasting your time and it's probably dangerous.
Don't blow yourself up.

Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
24 Nov 2012 9:35PM
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pweedas said...

Charge voltage per cell should stop at 4.2 volts exactly. Any more and the cell is damaged,. permanently.
Any less won't damage the cell but the charge capacity drops off rapidly below 4.2 volts.


The is true for polymer battery used in RC models and some tools, but vehicles use LiFePO4 that shouldn't be charged above 3.65 V


youngbull
QLD, 825 posts
24 Nov 2012 9:58PM
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I estimate with the electric you should get 4-7kmph Max - If you are using 1300mah batts I would not imagine more than 5mins max. In series (not sure about LiFe batts) would be needed.

I have boated many times in the Broadwater, there is a fair current through their - your elec setup has around 3.5kw less power (that is alot).
Would hate to see you on the news ha

Can the esc in the elect motor handle the c rating of the batts?
Water = very bad news for Lipo and LiFe. Big bang in little boat.

Personally I would have purchased an old Js440 or Js550 jetski, lightweight and I had to tow a Nacra near Horizon Shores Marina with my 550 I had at the time. At approx 25ktns the guy started screaming at me to slow down - took me a while to hear him, ah ha ha.. Check the net Macro some-one fitted a pod to a 16ft Hobbie.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Electric Catamaran" started by Macroscien