Weirdly, over on the Afghan thread it seems a lot of Ozzies are happy for a few Ozzies to go to another country - to potentially die - attempting to rid that nation of evil rapists/murderers/persecutors, thus protecting the people of that country.
Meanwhile on this thread people (me thinks many the same) seem unhappy for those people actually raped/persecuted/whose families have been murdered to come to this country for protection from rapists/murderers/persecution, which results in less expenditure and zero Ozzies killed.
So just to clarify, it is more popular to allow greater money to be spent sending our military OS and having our soldiers killed than allow refuge for genuine asylum seekers?
I must be fick cause I REALLY don't get it.
For me this thread was all about the back bone (lack off)
of our leaders...I "HATE" indecisiveness and thats all I (I am talking about what I see not the general publics view) see these days.
I love that the French have decided on no head veils (burqas and niqabs) in their country..and are now making it law... I believe it still has to go to their Senate but they feel it will go through.
I would just like our leaders to decide something and have the guts to stick to it.
Agree on the infuriating jellyfish behaviour of the 2 major parties. However it's the popularist views, which are just as fickle - when re-ignited to believe there is some kind of invasion on - that they are responding to.
If the folks in this country could focus on real issues that actually affect them, and not irrational fears, then we might be able to demand results from the jellyfish brigade to improve our life, environment, health, education.. and yes our foreign policy too.
For me getfunky my irrational fear comes from indecision.
To me, if they can't even agree on a small matter of dealing with boat people and were to put them and making the boat people issue look larger than life...what are they hiding and what are they not doing.
To me these pollies look like they just want to argue do nothing and get paid. Sorry..but right at present to me they look like they have blinkers on and they have a she will be right mate attitude.
I feel the laid back attitude of Australians needs to change a tad so we don't get trampled into submission and regret some backbone less decisions made now in the near future.
Sorry if that does not sound quite right...I know what I mean just finding it hard to find the right words.
It's a bit chicken and egg isn't it?
If the public didn't believe we were under threat from these harmless victims arriving, we would be able to focus on the things that help run the country and add to all our quality of lives.
Instead the public (and yes the media have a lot to answer for here) virtually insist that the pollies drop the ball on environment, aged care, education etc etc and act as though there is only one issue (that isn't half the issue it is made to be).
It is truly saddening that as a society on this, and other issues, we seem to learn so little from putting our hand on the hotplate agian, and agian and..
No one seems to care that workchoices will be straight back (with a shiny new name), that we are repeating Vietnam again, that we have let opporunities to change our energy consumption slide into in competance (and big business totally off the hook) etc etc.
Instead we expect the govt to stop what they cannot; legally, logistically and financially.
FACT: We cannot change policy on our international requirement to accept asylum seekers. IT CANNOT BE CHANGED IN OUR PARLIMENT.. not by Labour, not by Liberals, not by ANYONE.
It is above and beyond our legislation.
Wing nut speedo boy is acting as tho he can somehow pull a magic rabbit out of his wide hat. He can't and he won't. Julia is looking for a big tropical rug.
It is simply a matter of what they/we chose to do with the arrivals and the best any of the idiots in Canberra seem to come up with is hide them overseas at enormous expense. This is because the public WANT to be fooled in this way. Because the public don't want to understand the issue (it might just take more than a 2min news piece) and WANT to live in bliss.
If ANYONE wants to understand the difficulty in our legal requirements and also realise the lie that both sides of politics are feeding you then take the time to listen to (most - it's 24mins) of this:
www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/myths-and-asylum-seekers/3028852
Admittedly one of the speakers is an academic as dry and boring as a dead donkey's d!ck but the information is gold.. platinum even. That is information on fact by the way not opinion.
Qanda on the ABC Monday night - www.abc.net.au/qanda - featured Chris Evans, Minister for Immigration among the panel. The topic was titled "Fear, Loathing and the East Timor Solution".
At one stage Evans made the point that the only real solution is to improve our overseas processing, the rationale being that the incentive for people to get into leaky boats is that they feel they have no other hope. If they can see there is hope then they are less likely to want to get into a boat.
He also argued that the Oppositions so-called solution of towing the boats back out to sea not only would not work but had previously been tried and abandoned under Howard when they found that it resulted in much greater risk to lives, including those of the Australian seamen out there dealing with the situation. Something that the budgie smuggler would be well aware of.
I thought it was a very good program overall (maybe one of the better ones) and well worth downloading for anyone interested in this debate.
I should add - it did leave me wondering why the government doesn't talk like this all the time instead of pumping out the rubbish that we normally get from them.
Have and watched read all about this subject for such along time now , I think it would be great if all refugees that wish to come here , do so, with all the right reasons in mind - to escape oppression and intimidation ,or whatever other horrid attrocities that they have had to face , to come to a place that is accepting of the need to escape , but be willing to Assimilate (hope the spellings right) and be a part of this truely unreal (cause Thats what it really is!) place we all call ours!!
I would hate Australia to become what _Alot of England has become , where there are communities that have so many, of foriegn decent that the locals no longer want to call the place they and their parents etc ,grew up in, home, only because those that immigrate to these places DO NOT ASSIMILATE , I know lots of people that moved here because they feel home is no longer home !
I would not, I think be the only one to say this,
Ohh and by the way we are leaving the place we have lived in for the last 18 yrs for a more quiet lifestyle in a warmer climate ,My wife has been a nurse for over 20 yrs and has to put up with (6 week wonders, thats all they have to do to become a carer) people who have a limited understanding of english , which can be a problem when communicating with the elderly.
From someone who has many years experience in this field my wife is very dissapointed at the level of training and willingness to work in the aged care industry.
Seem to me there are lots that want al the benifits that we, as a community offer , but not many who are willing to put ANY, effort in once given an employement oppertunity
haven't commented on this subject since page two or something, its always going to go around in circles....
heres a thought , who would you rather have in australia...
someone thats independent, ability to take on a challenge (sounds like a sound bite from an army recruitment advertisement), heroic (like Jessica) and focused enough to make the best they can for a better life for their family and themselves.
or someone that relies on others, follows the system and procedure and doesn't show the type of resilience the first group has shown.
i would take the first group, whom to me are the illegal arrivals.
the third group can go to hell though and that's the ones that profit from the misery.
was it 1 or 2 years ago that a certain figure was calling women "meat" , bet that guy didn't arrive on a boat! 
What are we going to do with all the Americans that will flood our shores in 2012 when Sarah Palin wins the election?
cwammit has cwammed a lot of sense into that..
Have to add tho that the mufti was very much quoted out of context - He was not saying that they are meat (in his eyes) but to rapists women who reveal a lot of flesh are as attractive as meat left in the open is to birds of prey.
Any cursory glance at the behaviour of most tanked males on a friday night at closing time would probably agrree the blokes are not thinking about introducing a bouncy flouncy to mum, and (in the minority of cases) are prepared to inflict harm to satisfy the base, primeval desires.
I'm not saying I want the mufti for PM - he does some kooky things but he was repeatedly taken out of context by ALL the media cause it's a damn easy headline and bound to stir the pot. His mistake was to quote from the Koran and that sort of language is not timeless - even tho the message is really.
Also don't get me wrong, I am not saying women can't dress as they choose and personally I love the bouncy stuff on show. However, I'm not likely to grab a girl and have my way with her against her will tho. If I had a daughter i would be seriously concerned with her welfare if she went scantily clad to a venue with p!zzed testosterone (and pills/ice etc) fueled blokes in proximity. Doesn't every parent think that way?
What is disappointing is even in the (aledged) more open and balanced sectors of the media the haste to run with the same inaccurate angle as idiot fuel like Today Tonight and A current affair.
Mad Mel is more rascist (and has been publically recorded doing so) than the mufti.
Russle crow is more violent.
Half the NRL and AFL think women are meat and like to share the Barbie with or withou permission - BYO or not.
When the mufti pack rapes a girl, smears excretion all over a hotel, decks a concierge with a phone (or randomly biffs someone who thinks his movies suck) seduces a teenager, gets caught with enough wizz in his system to keep a US garrison up all night etc etc etc - then I'll be happy to send him packing.
Kind of makes it a bit surreal how much we let go through to the keeper for some members of our society compered to others don't you think?
Cassa..
Do you know what Assimilate means? Do you know the aussie history around assimilation.. It didn't work in the late 30's It didn't work again in the 60's since then we tried integration which worked a little (arguable) and then multiculturalism which takes some open mindedness so some are still struggling with.. Later still was self determination... That's right, each person gets to choose their religion, cultural practices, decide for themselves. Its part of our human rights.. Kinda cool don't ya think?
I couldn't really follow the point about nurses.. Your wife was dissappointed at the lack of training and the lack of people willing to work in the aged care industry. Is that right? Then it seemed like you were suggesting immigrants (people with limited english skills) were working there but not working hard enough maybe. (Sorry if I misinterpreted). If that is what you/ your wife were saying, it has been very different to my experience in related industries. My experience has involved hard working, skilled, caring and very lowly paid workers from war-torn nations. Maybe, some people are more motivated than others regardless of heritage.
My wife is also a (paediatric) nurse and has at times dealt with families from situations most Ozzies could not begin to imagine.
Their humility and gratitude has moved her (she's not stone but after 15yrs has had to HTFU a bit) incredibly. Some of the damage that has been inflicted on littlies defies belief that human beings could do that.
Unfotunately the perpetrators were often motivated by a hatred/fear of race or religion.. kinda like we find (in milder form) here.
Cassa, if the lowly skilled immigrants are ending up in positions they are not correct for, ask yourself is that their fault, or the peanut that employed them and the minimum wages offered by the system whose funds are syphoned off because public focus is elsewhere?
My wife also deals with a lot of white and black Ozzies from cycles of poverty and abuse. Frankly there seems as much if not more hope for the new arrivals to make something of themselves because they actually appreciate that chance and want to make it.
If you want assimilation, next time you see a Sudanese lookin kid, say g'day as you pass (I started this a while back and sometimes they look pretty surprised, happy even). Hell, go up and start a convo (yeh i haven't made a habit of that but maybe I will walk the talk there too), assimilation needs to be a two way street.
Cassa, does your wife have work parties or whatever where everyone gets together? If not do it. Be thw onbe to organise it. You never know it may improve your partner's enjoyment of work. Meet their families - they have pretty much the same desires and needs as everybody.
I am not judging here btw if they don't a lot of workplaces are distant or fractured these days. The more society drifts into barracading ourselves in McMansions and less social interaction the more fear and loathing will rise. Simple as that.
Amen.
To both smedge and Gf , I have no problem mixing with our new arrivals, I recently worked with a guy from Vietnam, his name was Jimmy ( not his given name) great guy , had some really funny stories that cracked the work crew up , Zac ,.was from south africa he had the best excuse for being late ; Man I'm sorry i'm late I was having a bad dream man it was bad, . nothing wrong with these guys , THEY, wanted to work . My wife has, in the last 3 months had to put up with so many that DONT, want to work they just turn up for apperance money ,, yea its upsetting.
I have no problem talking to ANYONE, regardless Of race or religion, like the guy who got bogged on site months ago, ( he and his work mates couldnt put 2 good words of english together, but we all laughed when I pulled his ute out of the dirt and covered one of them with sand ), have bumped into them recently , and we both at the same time gave each othe the thumbs up and smiled.
I just dont like the lazy b#r s!ards ( and there are plenty of Aussie that fit this catagory) who BLUDGE off the system .
Come one come all but Please, try to join in
Keep you religion , keep your beliefs, but dont try to change the way we are .
There are many places in this world to live ,,, none as good as here ( my opinion, seen plenty) lets keep it that way .
Hey Casa. Thanks for the reply I been on a few jobs where others don't do their fair share of the work and can understand how annoying that can be.
I been on a few jobs where others don't do their fair share of the work and can understand how annoying that can be.
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Can always count on Liam for the redkneck angle. Not that the story above isn't interesting but you can count on him covering it with a bit of a "Dirty fks - give that one a kick in the guts whilst you handcuff im ey boys.. now where is my caviar and Grange - just like Carlton taught me."
'60 seconds' is more like the attention span of his viewers.
Yes that is another viewpoint on 'Illegal Immigrants". I thought we were discussing asylum seekers tho???
Please see pretty much ANY of the last 17 odd pages for an explanation of the fundamental differance.. if you care to. Probably not, or you wouldn't still be coining the wrong term hey?
