Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Global governance - Good or Bad?

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Created by FlySurfer > 9 months ago, 24 Sep 2011
FlySurfer
NSW, 4453 posts
24 Sep 2011 2:42PM
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I think it's bad because nature imposes competition.

But our leaders are converging, and most alternate movements are also promoting global governance.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
24 Sep 2011 3:29PM
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That video is quite Marxist. The speakers discuss planning and control to develop a better society. Ideas not much different to the idea of central planning. Marxists and Communists talked of creating a perfect society too. Where did they end up? Starvation or a 9mm bullet in the back of the head. Somehow a bunch of wise people with all the statistics and information in their hands are goings to be able to make better decisions than ordinary people. This idea has failed many times.

The end statement On a resource based economy wasn't much different to the old slogan which went something like "take what you need and give what you can"

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
24 Sep 2011 4:17PM
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doesn't it sound good, but the people who are running things now will still be in control, just with a hell of a lot more control over you, me and everybody

what happens to the people who don't like it?

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
24 Sep 2011 4:35PM
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laceys lane said...

doesn't it sound good, but the people who are running things now will still be in control, just with a hell of a lot more control over you, me and everybody

what happens to the people who don't like it?


Liquidation. There will be a need to create a new rational, scientific man. Those who object or do not fit the mold will be cast into the dustbin of history.

FlySurfer
NSW, 4453 posts
24 Sep 2011 5:10PM
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laceys lane said...

doesn't it sound good, but the people who are running things now will still be in control, just with a hell of a lot more control over you, me and everybody


The people with control in our world are those who control the money supply.
In a resource based economy, money doesn't exist... so I guess those who control the resources will be the new elite... BUT what if a computer allocated resources based on an appropriate algorithm?
Computer says, NO more iron ore for you.

We're already in a defacto world government... G20, CO2 trading UN all acting in concert... and it's ~2 years before they declare a currency stabilization act which pegs currencies.

adolf
1862 posts
24 Sep 2011 3:36PM
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They should make Wayne Swan Treasurer - he was voted the best in the world. Laurie Oaks should be the leader - He's fat but fair. Tom Elliot should be spokesperson, his radio program on 3AW is great, and they should make Melbourne the world capital - cause I live there, and idiots keep telling us its the worlds most liveable city - whatever that means.

I want to know what's the worlds most fu$kable city - I want to live there

log man
VIC, 8289 posts
24 Sep 2011 6:24PM
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Yes , Tom Elliott is a genius that knows everything. The sooner he becomes the dear leader, the better we'll all be.

log man
VIC, 8289 posts
24 Sep 2011 6:37PM
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What a great video, when I grow up I want to end all wars and find a cure for all known diseases. I would also like a hovercar. My interests are horseriding and meeting people.

SomeOtherGuy
NSW, 807 posts
24 Sep 2011 6:40PM
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How could be not a good thing? Competition? Meh! Australia used to be a number of separate states before federation. Are you saying we were better off that way? The USA likewise. Would they have been better off staying that way instead of centralising their government?

What are the benefits?

Well... for one thing, you don't see NSW declaring war on Victoria do you? Why? Because we consider ourselves ONE country, not lots of little ones competing for the same space. Europe is just learning that lesson. Do you think either of the world wars would have happened if there were ONE government governing Germany, France, Britain etc? I think not. SO it'd be an end to wars for a start.

Why would a democratically elected world government be any more constraining than a democratically elected national government? So there's another benefit - the spread of democracy worldwide.

A single finance system eliminates the opportunity for one nation to soak up the wealth of others for its own benefit. Imbalances like the artificially low Chinese currency are eliminated.

There's a few benefits with just 5 minutes thought. There's bound to be more.

Toots
WA, 271 posts
24 Sep 2011 5:50PM
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Most people living in so called democracies, see communist ideals as their only way out. They don't often realise these alternatives are communist ideals until someone points them to the Soviet Union. These issues have been fought out in history, (check out European History of the aristocracy including Russia and the Ukraine and why the Soviet Union is the Soviet Union, not to mention the rest of the world) and because of human nature, it goes round and round in circles. Its Human nature we need to change first and foremost, (good luck with that one crusader rabbit) government will come second.
I also despise Nazi's posing as Hippies forcing their beleifs down your throat thinking there is no alternative but communism.
Anarchy is the only real alternative I see. Most confuse chaos with Anarchy, Anarchy means 'No Government', (from early greek meaning "No Ruler") so Anarchy is often associated with chaos depending on the speaker; Its a utopian ideal, to have no government, chaos is what would be the result if you had an anarchic society full of morons, so for an anarchic society to flourish we first need civilised people, so again highly unlikely.
So yeh Global Governance= a Sh!tty deal, big brother, WAR ie CIVIL WARS 24/7 365 For ever and ever. not much different from what we have now.

chrispychru
QLD, 7932 posts
24 Sep 2011 8:29PM
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i am your new world leader. all donations will go to making my life better. thankyou all in advance

hamburglar
ACT, 2174 posts
24 Sep 2011 8:41PM
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Bad

GalahOnTheBay
NSW, 4188 posts
24 Sep 2011 8:52PM
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FlySurfer said...

But our leaders are converging, and most alternate movements are also promoting global governance.


So let me get this straight.

Not one country in the world manages to get local governance right and we want to go for a "whole world" solution?

Sure. That sounds like a good idea...

PS: No I didn't watch the video.

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
24 Sep 2011 9:55PM
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SomeOtherGuy said...

How could be not a good thing? Competition? Meh! Australia used to be a number of separate states before federation. Are you saying we were better off that way? The USA likewise. Would they have been better off staying that way instead of centralising their government?

What are the benefits?

Well... for one thing, you don't see NSW declaring war on Victoria do you? Why? Because we consider ourselves ONE country, not lots of little ones competing for the same space. Europe is just learning that lesson. Do you think either of the world wars would have happened if there were ONE government governing Germany, France, Britain etc? I think not. SO it'd be an end to wars for a start.

Why would a democratically elected world government be any more constraining than a democratically elected national government? So there's another benefit - the spread of democracy worldwide.

A single finance system eliminates the opportunity for one nation to soak up the wealth of others for its own benefit. Imbalances like the artificially low Chinese currency are eliminated.

There's a few benefits with just 5 minutes thought. There's bound to be more.


maybe this would help

SomeOtherGuy
NSW, 807 posts
25 Sep 2011 12:29PM
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err... yeah, thanks lacey but Tinkerbell has never really done it for me. Not enough... err... development... for me.

But you go ahead and dream about her. Here, this might help you:

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
25 Sep 2011 12:42PM
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Perhaps if you believe a global government will fix all of humanities problems you believe in fairies too.

SomeOtherGuy
NSW, 807 posts
25 Sep 2011 12:57PM
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No, I don't believe it'd fix all the problems nor did I say that. There's lots of problems it'd have absolutely no effect on. May even make some worse - global warming, peak oil. There's two for starters.

But if you believe that global governance necessarily means some kind of worldwide enslavement by evil overlords who guffaw at their own evil then maybe you've been reading too many comic books yourself. YOU need to explain why and how that'd happen. Otherwise you're just one more nutjob conspiracy theorist who has dreamed up a new one.

FlySurfer
NSW, 4453 posts
25 Sep 2011 4:10PM
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Centralising power for me is evil, because it means a small group impose their will on a larger group.

We're all in this play ground together and we only get 1 turn, so I don't want anybody telling me how to play.

I think societies need founding basic principals like:
Preservation of all life.
Your body is your own to do as you will with it.
Wilfully causing harm to another results in expulsion from the society (sent to the desert with no clothes )
...
And then goals like:
To discover new worlds.
To progress our species.

I don't see how creating another bureaucratic layer would benefit us; all it would do is add another bunch of unproductive people to a society that already suffers from too many unproductives ie:pen pushers (bankers, politicians).

As a nation what goal do we have?

GalahOnTheBay
NSW, 4188 posts
25 Sep 2011 4:13PM
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FlySurfer said...

As a nation what goal do we have?


That's a bit deep for this time of day.

Isn't the a 3am-after-1000-beers kind of question?

Mark _australia
WA, 22362 posts
25 Sep 2011 2:54PM
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SomeOtherGuy said...

No, I don't believe it'd fix all the problems nor did I say that. There's lots of problems it'd have absolutely no effect on. May even make some worse - global warming, peak oil. There's two for starters.

But if you believe that global governance necessarily means some kind of worldwide enslavement by evil overlords who guffaw at their own evil then maybe you've been reading too many comic books yourself. YOU need to explain why and how that'd happen. Otherwise you're just one more nutjob conspiracy theorist who has dreamed up a new one.



OK then. Not everybody want a one-world Government.

How do they establish it? By the only way they can when smaller countries say no, or protestors are out in every city in the world - Force.
And that makes it bad.

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
25 Sep 2011 5:06PM
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Mark _australia said...

SomeOtherGuy said...

No, I don't believe it'd fix all the problems nor did I say that. There's lots of problems it'd have absolutely no effect on. May even make some worse - global warming, peak oil. There's two for starters.

But if you believe that global governance necessarily means some kind of worldwide enslavement by evil overlords who guffaw at their own evil then maybe you've been reading too many comic books yourself. YOU need to explain why and how that'd happen. Otherwise you're just one more nutjob conspiracy theorist who has dreamed up a new one.



OK then. Not everybody want a one-world Government.

How do they establish it? By the only way they can when smaller countries say no, or protestors are out in every city in the world - Force.
And that makes it bad.


reckon its going to happen anyway and there wont be any voting on it. i personally don't believe those with the real power are pushing because their good blokes.

flame on

BulldogPup
6657 posts
25 Sep 2011 3:25PM
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Well okay - who's ideals (not sure of the word best describing a base point or rule which for a start will put lots of folks off) are we basing a "one world governance system" on? ....Pleeease don't say America.
Then , we'll go left field a wee bit - where does one of our world's biggest current bugbears - Religion - fit in the Glo Go picture?

FlySurfer
NSW, 4453 posts
25 Sep 2011 5:34PM
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GalahOnTheBay said...
That's a bit deep for this time of day.

Isn't the a 3am-after-1000-beers kind of question?


It wasn't meant that way, it was more of a rhetorical question... what goal does any country have?

...the most effective way of getting people to do something they wouldn't normally want to do, is to fool them in to wanting it.
You could do it by force, but that would engender immediate resistance, so wouldn't be a good foundation for it.

BulldogPup
6657 posts
25 Sep 2011 3:48PM
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What goal would Greece , Italy , Portugal and some of the skint African countries (just to name a couple or so) have?
To get the hell out of debt and be richer - there lieth another fundamental problem to Glo Go.

Toots
WA, 271 posts
25 Sep 2011 6:00PM
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SomeOtherGuy said...

No, I don't believe it'd fix all the problems nor did I say that. There's lots of problems it'd have absolutely no effect on. May even make some worse - global warming, peak oil. There's two for starters.

But if you believe that global governance necessarily means some kind of worldwide enslavement by evil overlords who guffaw at their own evil then maybe you've been reading too many comic books yourself. YOU need to explain why and how that'd happen. Otherwise you're just one more nutjob conspiracy theorist who has dreamed up a new one.


You really need to read some history, Start with Europe, you will then realise there were much deeper thinkers back then than their are now on this forum, they would all be laughing truly reading this thread, reminding each other History is one big circle, Viva la Revolution! (notice the word revolution is to do with circles, because thats all we do as humans, chase our non existent tails.) Read some Plato, Socrates and Aristotle, then try Pythagoras. Time is not Linear, its spherical with abitrary normals and prone to Boolean operations, when the time machine dudes work that one out we shoudl get time travel, so start writing down those Lotto numbers.

SomeOtherGuy
NSW, 807 posts
25 Sep 2011 8:15PM
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Mark _australia said...

OK then. Not everybody want a one-world Government.

How do they establish it? By the only way they can when smaller countries say no, or protestors are out in every city in the world - Force.
And that makes it bad.


Fair 'nuff. But why would they have to be forced to join in? Because yoochoob told you so? Maybe you lot should all try doing your own thinking instead of outsourcing your thinking to yoochoob.

Australia became one federation democratically and voluntarily because the separate states could see the benefits. Same for the USA. Europe is trying to head that way. Britain may not have joined up quite the same way but England, Scotland and Wales certainly seem to prefer to stay together.

There is no reason for example that USA, Britain, Australia and any other nations who wanted to establish a greater democratic nation couldn't get together to do it. All it takes is the nod from the people. If other nations didn't want to join in it'd be up to them.

No force. No heinous evil villains with fluffy cats. No paranoia.

SomeOtherGuy
NSW, 807 posts
25 Sep 2011 8:16PM
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Toots said...

SomeOtherGuy said...

No, I don't believe it'd fix all the problems nor did I say that. There's lots of problems it'd have absolutely no effect on. May even make some worse - global warming, peak oil. There's two for starters.

But if you believe that global governance necessarily means some kind of worldwide enslavement by evil overlords who guffaw at their own evil then maybe you've been reading too many comic books yourself. YOU need to explain why and how that'd happen. Otherwise you're just one more nutjob conspiracy theorist who has dreamed up a new one.


You really need to read some history, Start with Europe, you will then realise there were much deeper thinkers back then than their are now on this forum, they would all be laughing truly reading this thread, reminding each other History is one big circle, Viva la Revolution! (notice the word revolution is to do with circles, because thats all we do as humans, chase our non existent tails.) Read some Plato, Socrates and Aristotle, then try Pythagoras. Time is not Linear, its spherical with abitrary normals and prone to Boolean operations, when the time machine dudes work that one out we shoudl get time travel, so start writing down those Lotto numbers.




You really need to learn to string ideas together into sentences. I have not the slightest idea what you're on about. Or on.

SomeOtherGuy
NSW, 807 posts
25 Sep 2011 8:27PM
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SomeOtherGuy said...

Australia became one federation democratically and voluntarily because the separate states could see the benefits.


While I'm at it... it strikes me that when Australia federated, New Zealand originally put up their hands to join in. They then changed their minds (from what I remember, I think the referendum was defeated).

I don't remember learning that the newly formed Australia declare war on New Zealand to force them to join. Do you?

theDoctor
NSW, 5780 posts
25 Sep 2011 8:32PM
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<<<<some bastards stole my avatar...

As if global governance would be a good thing

Can't even keep the local cants honest

But we already have it

Australia is already the most over governed most over taxed place on earth

We are but a bucket of dirt for the global governance

What else has saved us....? Nothing

The incompetence of the australian minerals industry continually astounds me...

If we didn't have what they wanted to dig up and had to actually manufacture something

We'd be as phucked as the rest of them..

Now give me my avatar back......

Leprechaun
WA, 92 posts
25 Sep 2011 6:51PM
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SomeOtherGuy said...

SomeOtherGuy said...

Australia became one federation democratically and voluntarily because the separate states could see the benefits.


While I'm at it... it strikes me that when Australia federated, New Zealand originally put up their hands to join in. They then changed their minds (from what I remember, I think the referendum was defeated).

I don't remember learning that the newly formed Australia declare war on New Zealand to force them to join. Do you?



Global Governance probably couldnt be addressed at a state or feral level my friend .

The Global Governance puppeteers would be the American Federal Reserve , the IMF and the World Bank and subsidiaries with the G8 as the puppets that implement the whole agenda. The agenda is perpetual debt ,our monetary system is basically a Ponzi scheme . If no one or no group or no bank or no country is in debt the Ponzi scheme fails ?????? ........... Watch out for China .



SomeOtherGuy
NSW, 807 posts
25 Sep 2011 9:28PM
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theDoctor said...

Australia is already the most over governed most over taxed place on earth


Why? Because you say so? FAIL. Sweden is the obvious example... nice place, lots of people live there, lots want to live there, does quite well globally. Heaps higher tax rates than here.

Leprechaun said...

Global Governance probably couldnt be addressed at a state or feral level my friend .

The Global Governance puppeteers would be the American Federal Reserve , the IMF and the World Bank and subsidiaries with the G8 as the puppets that implement the whole agenda.


Why? Because you say so? You make sweeping pronouncements without a shred of argument as to how this would work or why it would be so. If you can't provide such explanations my friend then all I can say to you is .. BbbaaaaaAAaaa

FlySurfer said...

I think societies need founding basic principals like:
Preservation of all life.
Your body is your own to do as you will with it.
Wilfully causing harm to another results in expulsion from the society (sent to the desert with no clothes )
...
And then goals like:
To discover new worlds.
To progress our species.


Careful there, Flyboy. Go any further and cisco will call you a socialist.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Global governance - Good or Bad?" started by FlySurfer