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Muslim man granted judge-only trial in NSW

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Created by doggie > 9 months ago, 9 May 2012
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doggie
WA, 15849 posts
9 May 2012 12:20PM
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A Muslim man was granted a judge-only trial in NSW on the grounds a jury may be biased because of his strict religious beliefs.

Ismail Belghar, 36, is believed to be the first Muslim in Australia to be granted the special trial, the Daily Telegraph reports.

The decision by Judge Ronald Solomon was revealed in the NSW District Court yesterday after Belghar pleaded guilty to detaining and assaulting his sister-in-law because she had "dared" to take his wife to the beach without asking him first.

He had initially been charged with attempted murder.

Judge Solomon had granted Belghar the trial back in March after agreeing he may not receive fair judgment with a jury.

"The attitude of (Belghar). is based on a religious or cultural basis," Judge Solomon said.

"In light of the fact there has been adverse publicity regarding people who hold extreme Muslim faith beliefs in the community, I am of the view that the apprehension by (Belghar) that he may not receive a fair trial is a reasonable apprehension."

The Crown appealed against Judge Solomon's ruling on the basis that every Muslim would then be entitled to a judge-only trial.

Last week, the Court of Criminal Appeal overturned the ruling and ordered Belghar be tried by a jury.

The trial was scheduled to start yesterday when Belghar decided to plead guilty to the charges. The attempted murder charge was dropped.

The court heard Belghar found out his wife of 11 years, Hanife Kokden, had been to the beach in late 2009 because he noticed her shoulders were sunburnt.

He rang his wife's younger sister, 25-year-old Canan Kokden, and said: "You slut, how dare you take my wife to the beach?"

Ms Kokden then ran into Belghar while shopping with her brother at Sydney's Broadway Shopping Centre a couple of months later.

Belghar slapped her across the face, carried her to the car park railing and held her out over it.

Ms Kokden's brother then tackled Belghar and she was released.

He is due for sentencing at a later date.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8464468/muslim-man-granted-judge-only-trial-in-nsw

Will justice be served?

chrispychru
QLD, 7932 posts
9 May 2012 2:49PM
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what a ****en joke.

Nicko82
WA, 54 posts
9 May 2012 12:59PM
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makes me very upset...

our grandads fought for what during WW1 and 2??

Gunna1
154 posts
9 May 2012 1:04PM
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Multiculturalism, Assimilation, at its finest. Nothing like trying to fit in and leaving the baggage behind in the old country.

OK over to you Loggy!!

Mark _australia
WA, 22521 posts
9 May 2012 1:13PM
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What I am getting out of this is - we have nothing to be worried about.

He was granted a judge-only trial BUT upon appeal that was overturned and it was ruled that he had to have a jury like anyone else.

Thus we have case law now that you can't shy away from being tried by a jury on the basis of being black, white, brindle, Muslim or Pastafarian. That is good.

Hopefully we see a decent penalty as he can't use the bvllsh!t excuses about drugs and alcohol that white trash like to use

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
9 May 2012 3:18PM
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How many other judge only trials are there in NSW? I don't know but perhaps there are some. Does it say in the Koran you are allowed to bash up your sister in law if she takes her sister to the beach? If it does this bloke might have a point. If not then the incident should be treated as a criminal matter like any other before a jury.

BTW, our ancestors didn't fight for this. WW1 had nothing to do with being judged by your peers. The Central Powers had no plan to take that right away from Australians. If you believe they did I suggest you read up on why World War One occured and why Australia joined it.



felixdcat
WA, 3519 posts
9 May 2012 1:38PM
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Mobydisc said...

How many other judge only trials are there in NSW? I don't know but perhaps there are some. Does it say in the Koran you are allowed to bash up your sister in law if she takes her sister to the beach? If it does this bloke might have a point. If not then the incident should be treated as a criminal matter like any other before a jury.

BTW, our ancestors didn't fight for this. WW1 had nothing to do with being judged by your peers. The Central Powers had no plan to take that right away from Australians. If you believe they did I suggest you read up on why World War One occured and why Australia joined it.





Really??? Does he??? Did not know that the coran was base for Australian laws?????


doggie
WA, 15849 posts
9 May 2012 1:43PM
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felixdcat said...

Mobydisc said...

How many other judge only trials are there in NSW? I don't know but perhaps there are some. Does it say in the Koran you are allowed to bash up your sister in law if she takes her sister to the beach? If it does this bloke might have a point. If not then the incident should be treated as a criminal matter like any other before a jury.

BTW, our ancestors didn't fight for this. WW1 had nothing to do with being judged by your peers. The Central Powers had no plan to take that right away from Australians. If you believe they did I suggest you read up on why World War One occured and why Australia joined it.





Really??? Does he??? Did not know that the coran was base for Australian laws?????





It isnt.

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
9 May 2012 1:45PM
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To all those who think that this is the end of the matter and everything is now sweet, you need to have another think.
It's not the end of the matter. It's only the end of this particular episode.
There will be plenty of people who believe exactly what this man believes and they will all believe that this persons cultural beliefs were not given due consideration by our infidel authorities.
When these people are suficient in number and sufficiently enraged they will take their rage to the streets and make trouble. Lots of it.
And they will be given the facility to do this by the freedoms that they have come here for and which they didn't have in their previous country.
And they will continue to do so with more and more force until their swelling numbers demand that they be dealt with by their own laws.

If you want to know if that's at all possible, just look at what's happening in the UK. They are 20 years further down the same path that we are now on.

Part of this persons penalty should be his return to place of origin.
We don't want their cultural claptrap here.

DunkO
NSW, 1146 posts
9 May 2012 3:58PM
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How do you know his place of origin is not Australia??
Because of his name? his religion?

What he did was flat out wrong and the law will deal with it just as if he were anybody else, thankfully.

I bet a few of the aboriginals wish the rest off us would of returned to our places of origin a couple of hundred years ago.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
9 May 2012 4:07PM
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felixdcat said...


Really??? Does he??? Did not know that the coran was base for Australian laws?????





What I mean is if it is written in the Koran for a believer to beat up his sister in law for taking his wife to the beach, ie Muhammad said it was okay, then he can defend his actions saying it follows his religious beliefs. The jury probably doesn't follow those same beliefs, so he could be persecuted for those beliefs. Possibly a judge could be more educated in interpreting Koranic verses.

Of course the Koran doesn't actually say this, or anything of the kind. So this bloke is hiding behind the threat of potential prejustice. Of course its a crok of crap. This is how lawyers earn their pay. Fortunately the system worked. It was seen for what it is, a crok.

This bloke probably comes from some village where the best education someone got was looking at a donkey's arsehole all day while plowing the field. So his idea of the role of a husband could be a little less developed.

He probably hit his wife hundreds of times and got away with it. However the little sister and her brother are a different matter. Now one way or another, he will pay the price.

He should be tried before a jury for what appears to be a criminal offense. When you become Australian you agree to follow Australian laws. If you are born here you don't make an agreement as such but get to know whats permissable and what isn't.





Cambodge
VIC, 851 posts
9 May 2012 4:11PM
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Australian law is based on the Judeo-Christian tradition so it's also based on some cultural claptrap. Fortunately it's softened by educated, compassionate case law from the past few hundred years.

Mark_australia made the pertinent point. There's actually no story in that article. Due process occurred and worked as designed but how could a journalist resist??! It's a mock-outraged right-wing journo's wet dream: non-anglo saxon name, non-Christian religion, violence against women - perfect!

Mark _australia
WA, 22521 posts
9 May 2012 2:17PM
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Yup
There is no story there

However pweedas has a point that there could be a strong voice amongst Muslims that he should have been treated differently and that can be a precursor to hatred

Poida
WA, 1916 posts
9 May 2012 2:29PM
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all female jury ?

chrispychru
QLD, 7932 posts
9 May 2012 4:38PM
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Poida said...

all female jury ?



that love bacon

felixdcat
WA, 3519 posts
9 May 2012 2:40PM
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chrispychru said...

Poida said...

all female jury ?



that love bacon


and topless sun baking!

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
9 May 2012 2:41PM
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Mark _australia said...

Yup
There is no story there

However pweedas has a point that there could be a strong voice amongst Muslims that he should have been treated differently and that can be a precursor to hatred


They hate us already, so that would give them an excuse to hate us more???

Dam stupid religions [}:)]

jamdfingr
QLD, 663 posts
9 May 2012 4:55PM
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The laws of a country are to govern the people within that country and decided upon by the people in that country. The Idea of a jury is to be judged by a pannel of your fellow countrymen (and women).

That being said, it is up to his countrymen to judge his behaviour and to hand out a fair sentence because of it.

If you want to be judged by a group of conservative god fearing christians, go and live in america, if you want to be judged by a group of your muslim peers, go and live in a muslim country.

And if you want to live in Australia and enjoy the freedoms/values that we have, you will be judged by a group of Aussies who (mostly) treat their women with respect and as equals!

Having said that, I used to live in a muslim country and wanted to point out that this bloke is not a good example of your typical muslim man who's role is to protect his wife and family.

DunkO
NSW, 1146 posts
9 May 2012 5:07PM
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it's just not right, women of all races and religions should be able to get thier cans out at the beach...

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
9 May 2012 5:13PM
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Mark _australia said...

What I am getting out of this is - we have nothing to be worried about.

He was granted a judge-only trial BUT upon appeal that was overturned and it was ruled that he had to have a jury like anyone else.

Thus we have case law now that you can't shy away from being tried by a jury on the basis of being black, white, brindle, Muslim or Pastafarian. That is good.

Hopefully we see a decent penalty as he can't use the bvllsh!t excuses about drugs and alcohol that white trash like to use


Hey hey. Someone actually read it! The words and stuff.

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
9 May 2012 5:17PM
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...I hear that Aborigines are also trying to be tried by their own people under their own laws. People that come here in boats like the Aborigines should live by our laws.

dinsdale
WA, 1227 posts
9 May 2012 3:24PM
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Mobydisc said...
Of course the Koran doesn't actually say this, or anything of the kind.

He probably hit his wife hundreds of times and got away with it. However the little sister and her brother are a different matter.

Er, no!! That highlights one of the biggest problems we're having in this, and most other western countries. That is, complete ignorance about the infestation which keeps coming our way.

Here, read it for yourself:-
www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/003-wife-beating.htm

A few other muslim apologists here could educate themselves a little too. The whole koran is there for your edification.
www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/quran.htm

Mark _australia
WA, 22521 posts
9 May 2012 3:26PM
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evlPanda said...

...I hear that Aborigines are also trying to be tried by their own people under their own laws. People that come here in boats like the Aborigines should live by our laws.


Did you do australian history at school?

(yes I know what you meant lol)

jamdfingr
QLD, 663 posts
9 May 2012 5:27PM
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I understand where you are coming from however:

The laws of our society are determined by the representatives of our society which include aboriginals. This allows the majority vote to give the majority population what the majority of all of us want / need.

If the aboriginals would like to be goverend outside of our laws, then I have no issue with that so long as it excludes the benefits that our governing system provides such as welfare, health care, transportation etc....

You can't have the benefits of a governing body without the responsibilities.

I am truly sorry if this makes me sound racist as it is not my intention but I believe in one system that governs the majority fairly and equally. There should be no special consideration based on your religion, colour or beliefs. Everyone benefits and everyone abides by the responsibilities.

I hope that clears up my position....

Cheers.

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
9 May 2012 5:36PM
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^^^ A very sensible and non-racist comment IMO - unfortunately in this day & age with PC going nuts, that doesn't account for much.

d1
WA, 304 posts
9 May 2012 3:49PM
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dinsdale said...

Mobydisc said...
Of course the Koran doesn't actually say this, or anything of the kind.

He probably hit his wife hundreds of times and got away with it. However the little sister and her brother are a different matter.

Er, no!! That highlights one of the biggest problems we're having in this, and most other western countries. That is, complete ignorance about the infestation which keeps coming our way.

Here, read it for yourself:-
www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/003-wife-beating.htm

A few other muslim apologists here could educate themselves a little too. The whole koran is there for your edification.
www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/quran.htm


Nice rightwing resource you've got there. Ever thought about how easy it would be to subject the Bible to similar "research":

The Bible on Women Rights: It's OK to offer your virgin daughters to a crowd for gang-rape (by example of Lot in Genesis 19.8)

Let's not drag Abrahamic Religions into this - the issue is simple assault that has been pimped by the press in order to sell a story, where there is no story. As Mark said.

jamdfingr
QLD, 663 posts
9 May 2012 5:54PM
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Good Call...

I read through a bit of that Quoran explained stuff and cringed because I have no idea if that is a valid resource or if that is just something that someone posted on the net to villify muslims.

Until I read the text myself in the original scripture, I reserve my judgement...

Plus, I aint even read the bible so cant compare either....

Mark _australia
WA, 22521 posts
9 May 2012 3:55PM
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Oh sh!te I'm losing my rep here

AWOL FIFO.

Ummm, if you don't love it leave it. They should all go back to where they came from.

jamdfingr
QLD, 663 posts
9 May 2012 5:57PM
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The winky face means sarcasm yes?

Wasnt that from a song... or atleast people were chanting it in Cronulla....???

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
9 May 2012 3:58PM
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Mark _australia said...

Oh sh!te I'm losing my rep here

AWOL FIFO.

Ummm, if you don't love it leave it. They should all go back to where they came from.




So Mark you are AWOL from your fly in fly out job wtf

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
9 May 2012 6:02PM
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doggie said...

A Muslim man was granted a judge-only trial in NSW on the grounds a jury may be biased because of his strict religious beliefs.

...



Congratulations you took the headline of the day

Muslim man's judge-only trial overturned by supreme court; to face jury


and totally reversed it to stir up crowd.

Trollie?



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"Muslim man granted judge-only trial in NSW" started by doggie