Select to expand quotedrsurf said..Alysum said..
What is the power like on the P4 8m? I know it will fly but could I expect more power than a 10/12 tube kite which I was struggling to keep in the air.
For a start I assume you're talking about using the P4 8m on a surf foil say around 1000 sq cm?
(If you're running a small freeride or race foil then the more high aspect, twin skin Soul is more suited.)
I use the 3m, 4m, 5m & 8m Peak4's and the 4m would be the one I use the most in the wind we get for my 65kg. I take the 8m out when it's so light that not only is no kiter on the beach but no kiter would even bother to go to the beach. It will fly in 3 knots and when it gets to 6 knots I can get going on my surf foil without too much effort.
However there's a law of diminishing returns in light wind kiting. Once you're up and going the apparent wind is your friend and it can feel stronger than it is. Being too casual in a gybe where you're turning downwind can lead the kite to fall out of the sky if you're forward motion is greater than the wind speed. Sharp turns and tight lines are important even with the fantastic drift of the Peak4. Ditto on waves or small swell. It's easy on a foil to outrun the kite on the wrong angle.
However on the plus side the water in light winds is much smoother and clearer which can make for a fun foil in a good location. And it's definitely easier to keep a Peak4 in the air than an inflatable kite. The light weight also makes the P4 much easier to control and turn even if you get the timing a bit wrong in light wind. The Peak4 doesn't have the power of a Soul but it's way more manoeuvrable and has much better drift which is what works great on a surf foil. In my experience I only need enough power to get out of the water. If my kite can do that it has plenty of power for everything else I want do on a surf foil. Consequently I use the smallest, fastest P4 I can in a given wind. Today that was a 3m P4 on 14m lines. (It was windy.)
If you're able to get down to Jervis Bay from Sydney, contact me and you can have a go on the 8m and see what you think.
This is a really interesting thread. I was searching some info what size FS Soul kite to ride with my surf foil set up and found myself down this rabbit hole. Some background, I am light rider 65Kg (same as DrSurf) on Moses 633/483 foil with a 94cm pocket board. We have hot & humid conditions in general with good days at 11 knots and light days (majority) at 7-8 knots. My kite quiver is a 12m and 8m mono strut kites. My 8m gets me going well in 10 knots up to 14 knots. I use the 12m on the 7-8 knot days but it is very iffy with a high risk of dropping the kite. I initially thought about getting a Soul 12m for the light wind days then considered a 10m Soul instead. However, after reading that the Peak4 power is equivalent to 1.6x power of other kites. I'm wondering if I should considering the Peak 8m to replace my 12m LEI and Peak 5m to replace my 8m LEI. Do I even need a Soul at all if I'm not jumping and always on a large surf wing?
Curious to hear thoughts on this, especially from lighter riders as I'm sure this also factors into the kite sizing.
Thanks Magic K
Hi MagicK,
The Soul is less ideal for larger surf foils and low speed kiting. I find the Souls are at their best for normal kite foiling at moderate speeds. The Souls is powerful and super easy to ride and relaunch. A 12m Soul at your weight would max out at around 18 knots I would think, and that's on a twin tip. On a foil? probably around 10-12 knots.
The Soul in a 7 or an 8 would be all the power you need and this will pair well with the 633 as it can hold a decent turn of speed. It really all depends on how you ride. If it's slow and catching waves I'd say stick with the Peak. The 8m will fly in as little as 3 knots and will kite along nicely in around 5-6 knots.
Hope this helps
DM
Hi Magic I would get the p4 5m first it's a great intro to them and very versatile. See how you go with that.
Personally I have all the p4s up to 6m and absolutely.. well . It's not so much about how much I love them it's more that they've ruined every other kite for me.
There's a distinct cutoff were the 6m won't get my 95ks going even after 4 loops each way in a gust. I don't have someone over my shoulder with a wind meter but it's under 10kts somewhere. At that point I don't think the slower 8m p4 would work either.
I have found that I want more structure to my kite for the very lightest stuff. I went with an ultralight 10m nova from PLKB. It weighs 1.48kgs which is almost equal to the p4 11m at 1.46kg however it has a double skin which helps hold shape and relaunch. Both significantly less than the Soul. I tried a 12m soul for light wind btw and it does make the power but I found it painfully slow.
I had 9m Mono and it was a great fun versatile friendly foiling kite when I was learning with it however I went to clouds then peaks. Last time I rode it after 6 months on the p4 5m I found it slow & unresponsive.
This is the Nova in about 7-8kts. You can see there's plenty of power for foiling by the drag marks.
Select to expand quoteActionSportsWA said..
Hi MagicK,
The Soul is less ideal for larger surf foils and low speed kiting. I find the Souls are at their best for normal kite foiling at moderate speeds. The Souls is powerful and super easy to ride and relaunch. A 12m Soul at your weight would max out at around 18 knots I would think, and that's on a twin tip. On a foil? probably around 10-12 knots.
The Soul in a 7 or an 8 would be all the power you need and this will pair well with the 633 as it can hold a decent turn of speed. It really all depends on how you ride. If it's slow and catching waves I'd say stick with the Peak. The 8m will fly in as little as 3 knots and will kite along nicely in around 5-6 knots.
Hope this helps
DM
Thanks. This is very helpful. I'm not sure why I keep getting recommendations for 15m Soul. Always seemed like an overkill to me.
Select to expand quoteKBGhost said..
Hi Magic I would get the p4 5m first it's a great intro to them and very versatile. See how you go with that.
Personally I have all the p4s up to 6m and absolutely.. well . It's not so much about how much I love them it's more that they've ruined every other kite for me.
There's a distinct cutoff were the 6m won't get my 95ks going even after 4 loops each way in a gust. I don't have someone over my shoulder with a wind meter but it's under 10kts somewhere. At that point I don't think the slower 8m p4 would work either.
I have found that I want more structure to my kite for the very lightest stuff. I went with an ultralight 10m nova from PLKB. It weighs 1.48kgs which is almost equal to the p4 11m at 1.46kg however it has a double skin which helps hold shape and relaunch. Both significantly less than the Soul. I tried a 12m soul for light wind btw and it does make the power but I found it painfully slow.
I had 9m Mono and it was a great fun versatile friendly foiling kite when I was learning with it however I went to clouds then peaks. Last time I rode it after 6 months on the p4 5m I found it slow & unresponsive.
This is the Nova in about 7-8kts. You can see there's plenty of power for foiling by the drag marks.
I think I will go with you suggestion of trying a 5m Peak first to get sense for power and movement. I was going to go the Clouds after the mono struts but seems the better option might be to go straight to the Peak. By the way, I ride with a rope slider on the harness, any options to get a slide surf loop for FS Connect Bar or do I need to get another bar?
Select to expand quotemagic2k said..KBGhost said..
Hi Magic I would get the p4 5m first it's a great intro to them and very versatile. See how you go with that.
Personally I have all the p4s up to 6m and absolutely.. well . It's not so much about how much I love them it's more that they've ruined every other kite for me.
There's a distinct cutoff were the 6m won't get my 95ks going even after 4 loops each way in a gust. I don't have someone over my shoulder with a wind meter but it's under 10kts somewhere. At that point I don't think the slower 8m p4 would work either.
I have found that I want more structure to my kite for the very lightest stuff. I went with an ultralight 10m nova from PLKB. It weighs 1.48kgs which is almost equal to the p4 11m at 1.46kg however it has a double skin which helps hold shape and relaunch. Both significantly less than the Soul. I tried a 12m soul for light wind btw and it does make the power but I found it painfully slow.
I had 9m Mono and it was a great fun versatile friendly foiling kite when I was learning with it however I went to clouds then peaks. Last time I rode it after 6 months on the p4 5m I found it slow & unresponsive.
This is the Nova in about 7-8kts. You can see there's plenty of power for foiling by the drag marks.
I think I will go with you suggestion of trying a 5m Peak first to get sense for power and movement. I was going to go the Clouds after the mono struts but seems the better option might be to go straight to the Peak. By the way, I ride with a rope slider on the harness, any options to get a slide surf loop for FS Connect Bar or do I need to get another bar?
My Ridengine with sliding Whitworth ring.
Fits any rope slider,put chicken loop through or around.I have a small fixed rope on my RE slider to give a less slider option for TTip or whatever.
A mate your size started with an 8m Peak4 kite foiling & will get a 5m Peak later.
8m P4 8-15kts , 5mP4 12-18kts depending on front wing size or body weight.
Select to expand quoteLeighbreeze said..magic2k said..KBGhost said..
Hi Magic I would get the p4 5m first it's a great intro to them and very versatile. See how you go with that.
Personally I have all the p4s up to 6m and absolutely.. well . It's not so much about how much I love them it's more that they've ruined every other kite for me.
There's a distinct cutoff were the 6m won't get my 95ks going even after 4 loops each way in a gust. I don't have someone over my shoulder with a wind meter but it's under 10kts somewhere. At that point I don't think the slower 8m p4 would work either.
I have found that I want more structure to my kite for the very lightest stuff. I went with an ultralight 10m nova from PLKB. It weighs 1.48kgs which is almost equal to the p4 11m at 1.46kg however it has a double skin which helps hold shape and relaunch. Both significantly less than the Soul. I tried a 12m soul for light wind btw and it does make the power but I found it painfully slow.
I had 9m Mono and it was a great fun versatile friendly foiling kite when I was learning with it however I went to clouds then peaks. Last time I rode it after 6 months on the p4 5m I found it slow & unresponsive.
This is the Nova in about 7-8kts. You can see there's plenty of power for foiling by the drag marks.
I think I will go with you suggestion of trying a 5m Peak first to get sense for power and movement. I was going to go the Clouds after the mono struts but seems the better option might be to go straight to the Peak. By the way, I ride with a rope slider on the harness, any options to get a slide surf loop for FS Connect Bar or do I need to get another bar?
My Ridengine with sliding Whitworth ring.
Fits any rope slider,put chicken loop through or around.I have a small fixed rope on my RE slider to give a less slider option for TTip or whatever.
A mate your size started with an 8m Peak4 kite foiling & will get a 5m Peak later.
8m P4 8-15kts , 5mP4 12-18kts depending on front wing size or body weight.
Thanks Leighbreeze. I have the exact same harness but with the Ride Engine rope slider connection. I have to get me one of those Whitworth rings - I guess I have to undo the knot in the rope connected, the ring in then tie the knot again. Peak4 sizing info for my weight also very helpful.
Select to expand quotemagic2k said..Leighbreeze said..magic2k said..KBGhost said..
Hi Magic I would get the p4 5m first it's a great intro to them and very versatile. See how you go with that.
Personally I have all the p4s up to 6m and absolutely.. well . It's not so much about how much I love them it's more that they've ruined every other kite for me.
There's a distinct cutoff were the 6m won't get my 95ks going even after 4 loops each way in a gust. I don't have someone over my shoulder with a wind meter but it's under 10kts somewhere. At that point I don't think the slower 8m p4 would work either.
I have found that I want more structure to my kite for the very lightest stuff. I went with an ultralight 10m nova from PLKB. It weighs 1.48kgs which is almost equal to the p4 11m at 1.46kg however it has a double skin which helps hold shape and relaunch. Both significantly less than the Soul. I tried a 12m soul for light wind btw and it does make the power but I found it painfully slow.
I had 9m Mono and it was a great fun versatile friendly foiling kite when I was learning with it however I went to clouds then peaks. Last time I rode it after 6 months on the p4 5m I found it slow & unresponsive.
This is the Nova in about 7-8kts. You can see there's plenty of power for foiling by the drag marks.
I think I will go with you suggestion of trying a 5m Peak first to get sense for power and movement. I was going to go the Clouds after the mono struts but seems the better option might be to go straight to the Peak. By the way, I ride with a rope slider on the harness, any options to get a slide surf loop for FS Connect Bar or do I need to get another bar?
My Ridengine with sliding Whitworth ring.
Fits any rope slider,put chicken loop through or around.I have a small fixed rope on my RE slider to give a less slider option for TTip or whatever.
A mate your size started with an 8m Peak4 kite foiling & will get a 5m Peak later.
8m P4 8-15kts , 5mP4 12-18kts depending on front wing size or body weight.
Thanks Leighbreeze. I have the exact same harness but with the Ride Engine rope slider connection. I have to get me one of those Whitworth rings - I guess I have to undo the knot in the rope connected, the ring in then tie the knot again. Peak4 sizing info for my weight also very helpful.
Yep great harness.I unscrewed the spreader rope set up undid knot one end managed to fit a second rope into holes after sliding ring on.Used the ring for years now only need to tighten rope occasionally.
Just replace ropes when they wear which isn't very often.P4's are IMO best for kite foiling just don't drop them.Or be quick to relaunch.
Hi All
I have this fantasy of riding a wing foil board with a Peak 4 in lighter winds to eliminate the need to water start. The idea is that the Peak will float in the air while I climb on the board, then provide sufficient power to get some speed up and get foiling.
I've ridden a SUP with a foil and a lightweight LEI. The kite requires too much attention when climbing on, then provides too much power with a big foil. It all gets a bit clumsy.
Anybody tried this with a Peak and a SUP/wing foil board? What size Peak are you using?
Hey Gorgo
Can't say I tryed a wing board.
Last few Foil sessions in 7-13kts wind I used P4 -11m
25ltr carbonco custom my light wind board with
Armie 1550 ,60fuse 85mast 232rear.
1550V1 is a big cruiser and turns great with 232rear.
Low stall speed with moderate top speed.
Depower the P4 at 12oclock and ride the swells.
For my 110 kgs once the wind gets above 12-14kts I am looking to change to the P4-8m.
Too many options now with all the HS & HA wings.
Fun times.
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..
Hi All
I have this fantasy of riding a wing foil board with a Peak 4 in lighter winds to eliminate the need to water start. The idea is that the Peak will float in the air while I climb on the board, then provide sufficient power to get some speed up and get foiling.
I've ridden a SUP with a foil and a lightweight LEI. The kite requires too much attention when climbing on, then provides too much power with a big foil. It all gets a bit clumsy.
Anybody tried this with a Peak and a SUP/wing foil board? What size Peak are you using?
Hi Gorgo..
Not sure why u want. A kite/SUP board combo..
1st up.. What is board displacement?
2nd ur weight?.
At 73pies..I have kited w 2400cm2 wing + 4m p4 wind 12knts -24/26knts board = sector 60 .. Not sure displacement prob 35l..
Regular winter wind ride is 1200cm2 8m p4 6-14knts w 110cms brd. V. Little rocker..
U commented on post about 1550 v1 Armstrong wing snaking upwind.. easy 2 get up in 6knts with small kite =6m p4 but not much power 4 body dragging.. I take flippers with me now to swim upwind w kite in the air with this combo..
Recent 6-8knt day.. Got into wind shadow by mistake behind local island mesmerized riding swell.. Fell off on heel to toe.. No power
P4 8m wanted to fall out sky. After sorting fall to horizontal movement flogged till back in breeze.. The Peaks have v.little inertia so movement is key in utra lite wind.. And prepared 2 swim. If wind drops below 3-4 knts..
Cheers
AP
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..
Hi All
I have this fantasy of riding a wing foil board with a Peak 4 in lighter winds to eliminate the need to water start. The idea is that the Peak will float in the air while I climb on the board, then provide sufficient power to get some speed up and get foiling.
I've ridden a SUP with a foil and a lightweight LEI. The kite requires too much attention when climbing on, then provides too much power with a big foil. It all gets a bit clumsy.
Anybody tried this with a Peak and a SUP/wing foil board? What size Peak are you using?
Yeah not sure about this. Those wing boards (the 100+ litre ones at least) are HUGE and I reckon would be dreadful to kite with. I have Peaks 4/5/8/13. The 13 might interest you. It hangs in the sky in virtually zero wind, you can take all the time you want to get ready for your waterstart, one loop and you are away.
at 90kg in 10 knots it's way too powerful - it's seriously a kite for minimal conditions. My point is there are kites available that will do what you want without having to buy an enormous pig of a thing to stand on. If you already have one - happy days, but I couldn't justify the expense myself unless I was getting into winging.
Hey Gorgo,
This guy seemed to have a decent time doing exactly what you are talking about. I'm also interested in the same.
I will let you know how it goes when I get my chance.
John
(I keep getting error messages so just search YouTube for "Fanatic Sky Wing with Flysurfer Peak" if my link doesn't work)
Thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for. There's quite a bit of information in the comments. That guy's using an 11m kite and a 1900cm foil in 10-15 knots.
I'm just looking for more options to play with. The idea appeals of just standing on a floaty wing/SUP board with a big foil. I've already got all the wing foiling gear. It would also give me an excuse to buy a Peak. ;-)
I've tried all sorts of variations of kite/wing board and foil combinations. They don't work all that well due to the mismatch in size and power spikes. I might experiment with the wing board and foil and smaller LEI and see what happens.
My biggest hand wing is 6m. It works ok in lightish winds with an 1875cm 5:1 aspect foil. It's not a patch on a kite foil. I had this fantasy that a 6m Peak would have the exrta grunt that comes from some line length to make wing board kite foiling a doable thing.
I am hoping to use a wingfoil board and my Peaks on short lines in places with lousy kite launch options, light wind that shuts down to zero, and places where I'd like to ride without dealing with the possibility of a long swim (I'd rather paddle in on a floaty board). A Peak on short lines is extremely easy to drift launch, relaunch and pack down. Additionally, I would really only deal with one leash for my board. I haven't yet figured out what kind of board to get and where I live I don't get the option of trying products out before buying.
Hi,
I appreciate this forum very much. Due to your nice information did I order now a peak 5 8sqm for gusty lake conditions. I choose 8sqm for days for wind conditions of 3-12ktn. I even thinking to add for extra light wind a 13sqm peak. What do you think. Would be an ozone explorer v2 12sqm a better choice due to better weight? Ozone is 1200g vs Peak with 1500g.
But before I test the 8sqm with my kite foil gear and although with a wing board of 88litres.
To my person: I am German, 51 years and 88kg.
Foil Armstrong hs625, cf 1200, ha925t and hs1850. Board Moses hf and Armstrong wing sup 5,5.
Looking forward to hear your point of view's.
best,
Boris
Hi,
I appreciate this forum very much. Due to your nice information did I order now a peak 5 8sqm for gusty lake conditions. I choose 8sqm for days for wind conditions of 3-12ktn. I even thinking to add for extra light wind a 13sqm peak. What do you think. Would be an ozone explorer v2 12sqm a better choice due to better weight? Ozone is 1200g vs Peak with 1500g.
But before I test the 8sqm with my kite foil gear and although with a wing board of 88litres.
To my person: I am German, 51 years and 88kg.
Foil Armstrong hs625, cf 1200, ha925t and hs1850. Board Moses hf and Armstrong wing sup 5,5.
Looking forward to hear your point of view's.
best,
Boris
Hi Boris,
I am also looking forward to read the experience of others. I am about the same weight as you with an extra 10 years on my clock. I rode a Peak4 8m with a 1750 cm2 Gong Fluid XXLS (first time) yesterday in very light wind on a 70L wingfoil board. Hoping to try soon on 88-98L board. I'm looking for the same thing as you I believe.
Select to expand quotehighbeaufort said..
Hi,
I appreciate this forum very much. Due to your nice information did I order now a peak 5 8sqm for gusty lake conditions. I choose 8sqm for days for wind conditions of 3-12ktn. I even thinking to add for extra light wind a 13sqm peak. What do you think. Would be an ozone explorer v2 12sqm a better choice due to better weight? Ozone is 1200g vs Peak with 1500g.
But before I test the 8sqm with my kite foil gear and although with a wing board of 88litres.
To my person: I am German, 51 years and 88kg.
Foil Armstrong hs625, cf 1200, ha925t and hs1850. Board Moses hf and Armstrong wing sup 5,5.
Looking forward to hear your point of view's.
best,
Boris
Hi Boris & Loco.
I would first try the 8m Peak5 kite before deciding on the next kite you need. You may find a different size may be better after trying the 8m.
I would also suggest trying a thin low volume kite foil board instead of a large high volume, floaty wing board. In my experience a large board for kite foiling is much harder to use and will slow your progress. You cannot easily put such a large board on its side to start foiling and it's weight and size will lower your performance.
I can understand the desire to have a large floaty board to paddle in with if the wind drops, but a Peak5 kite will still fly in 3 knots and if you need to paddle in make sure you have a good wetsuit/drysuit to stop hypothermia and take some lightweight flippers in a small pack which you can also use to pack your kite in.
Kind regards Dave
