Global warming?

Good to see a diversity of opinion. It's interesting to see the correlation between those with vested interests and 'belief' in science. You'll note that the incidence of critics of climate change science is much higher in countries with a high emissions factor and emissions-intensity industry. This is due to the sums of money spent on marketing their version of science to distort the democratic process and the amount of human capital in emissions-intensive industries. An electrical enginner that knows only coal plants is much less likely to be swayed by any argument which undermines his value.

The point is that armchair scientists are layman, and to selectively dispute science with a broad base of support is irrational. Do you skeptics dispute Newtons theorem, Beers law or the demonstration that heavy molecules such as CO2 and CH4 refract infrared rays? On what basis? You can not read Plimers fictional novel and pretend to have an informed opinion, it's not even peer-reviewed. It is egoistic to disagree with science because you disagree with the personal consequences it may have.

The smoking industries intense lobbying against the health consequences of smoking is a good analogy for climate change skeptics. The effect of HCFC's on the ozone layer is another, Dupont visciously attacked any science which undermined its business in producing HCFC's. If a few notable scientists had not stepped out and got on with the job rather than debate in the public realm there is a very real chance that life as we know it would be very much worse than it is today. The view that humans can not have an effect of the Earth is debunked - get on with the job and leave the science to scientists. I have no time for armchair fanatics.

Mate, thats gold!

Best analogy of the ETS I have heard yet.


I'd worry more about our population doubling. Emagine what that would do to our coastline! Where is all the fish, water, meat, energy going to come from??

I have a feeling I’m going to get roasted for this but….

Isn’t global warming as a result of fossil fuel burning kind of like the human race having an incurable, terminal illness? And there’s 2 options – fight it and create a long, painful drawn-out death (i.e. try in vain to make fundamental changes to the way the human race currently operates with little more than the hope of drawing out the inevitable in a painful way); or accept it, learn to make the most of the life that’s left and go out with a bang (i.e. continue as we are on our resource guzzling path)?

I know it sounds like, and probably is, a massive cop-out but I just think that (assuming the global warming brigade are correct) the changes to the way the world works today and the level of cooperation required to achieve them are so fundamentally opposed to human nature and greed that it’s not realistic to think we can do anything about it. So why not accept it and enjoy the ride as much as possible?

Besides, the human species is part of nature – therefore isn’t anthropogenic climate change (should it be real) only natural too?

might be right dirtyharry - sort o like Mad Max.
Didn't seem to be that much kite surfing in that movie.

There's a wee bit of reason for hope, and the changes required on a global scale in energy are not that different from some of the technological revolutions in say communications.

I'm in Renewable Energy, I know it, live it, love it (and kite it) and most people would be taken aback by what is possible...with a bit of cash

Consider China that everyone loves to demonize; they've just increased the size of their target for solar by 10x up to 20GW. Cost of PV will be grid-parity in less than 10 years. There's BIG money to be made in renewables in the not too distant future....

Just might be getting a glum outlook because we all live in a country which has got their eyes closed to these things - rather watch Britney Spears race around with a head full of acid (actually that sounds sort of funny)

I hear you Durks - good points.

What do you reckon are the most promising renewables?

I remember hearing a couple of years back that making PV panels consumed more energy than the panels would ever produce. That's was possibly wrong then, and even if it was right I accept that with advances in technology it's not necessarily the case now (or in a few years time). But I do wonder if the prediction of PV reaching grid parity is based on using fossils to produce the panels - kind of like ponzi energy scheme.

Nice job Flysurfer! HIDE THE DECLINE may not top the charts, but an important message none the less.

kit3r is right.....I've been to China many times.....
you fly down thru the cloud into the smog layer and then land without even seeing the ground coming up!

You don't see the sky again untill you leave....you can cut the errr...air...with a knife.

So lets turn off every single light and go back to horse and cart(in Australia)...it would be nice for a week......

But make no earthly difference at all......

So why should we pay for some half assed Carbon Emmissions Shceme?

So we can look as tho we care?

F....that......

You pay!...I'm not!

I'll just do what every-other large business will do....take my manufacturing plant over to China or India.....

Crudd should wize up..... we all should.......

all this political bull**** is really starting to piss me off! the global climate is warming and weather or not it is anthropogenic we should be trying to come up with solutions of how to live with it because we have no chance in hell of stopping it!

all this emissions trading cr@p, assuming climate change is anthropogenic, should have been done 15, 20 years ago to make a difference!

and is it just me or is this political debate on chlimate change atm seem to be all about politicians furthering their own agendas and presenting no real effective pathways!

soz bout the rant just really sick of the crap! haha

if you actually took the time to read the info on the websites

"The oceans today are still warmer than they were during the 1980s, and most scientists expect the oceans will eventually continue to warm in response to human-induced climate change."

and wikipedia is mostly bulldust, because people (like yourself) that think they know everything go and change the infomation on there.

also CO2 leavels have risen at least 50% since industrilisation stated

so maby take your own advise before you look at 3 websites and think your an expert

The challenge is huge but beyond a general sense of despair, copouts such as this seem to me to generally mask a personal desire to continue consuming at unsustainable levels: "It's all too hard and nobody else seems to be doing much, so I'll keep driving a V8 to the shops that are a ten minute walk away and cranking the aircon at home." (Not saying this is you Stabber, but a more general malaise/non-response symptomatic of an alienating, consumerist, and individualistic yet not well-differentiated society.)

True, there is not much that any one person can do.

But there are many things that everyone can do.

We will have to communicate and co-operate like never before. And we will have to give up some mod-cons. Perhaps we stand to gain a new understanding of ourselves and each other and of how to change the things we can.

Let's keep on talking, keep on thinking, and new constructive options are sure to emerge.

On Rant:
Trading hot air? Whatever next? How much CO2 does Gore create by travelling the globe in his private jet and motorcade? Ditto K Rudd?
Anyway, all the problems Australia and the world are facing are caused by one thing and one thing only: Overpopulation. One in six is already starving yet people still breed. We're supposedly running out of oil, gas, coal, water etc yet people keep breeding.
Unless overpopulation is dealt with everything else amounts to re-arranging the deckchairs on The Titanic. I know the Freemasons are trying to control the population by introducing AIDS, SARS and various kinds of flu, but it's not enough.

I don't want my kids riding around on bicycles, I want the next generation to way out do this one... I was born when man had supposedly walked on the moon. Since then the west has sat back and talked s*it while getting a bunch of Chinese peasants to make trinkets... China developed and we continued to talk **** and think acting stupid while listening to our ipood's is cool. I've been to China, and while a lot of it still needs work, they're freaking doing it while we talk f'ing CO2.

Even Arabs doing this: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/6662675/A-first-look-inside-Burj-Dubai-the-tallest-skyscraper-in-the-world-as-it-nears-completion.html


We need to develop, we need to get humans off Earth, we need to focus our education on engineering and technology, not cutting back and f"ing riding bicycles!

I want my very own 3mega watt reactor in the back yard, I want my house to be completely self contained (add water and light her up!)... We know how to do it, we're just too damn lazy to do it.

V8? How about an 8mW?

We have a bunch of good for nothing bureaucrats that try and make themselves important by stifling us, while never giving us any benefit.

Lets get smart, lets concur the galaxy... to infinity and beyond.

^^^ I was watching a por... ummm Action movie today. Anyway, while watching the movie, I got to thinking about the amount of petrol wasted and CO2 created to make it. Every time there's an explosion. All the car's used in chase scenes. Now i'm sure if compared to real world use this would only be a tiny proportion, but all those Hollywood people like to talk about how they make such a difference. So surley they could stop doing this and use computer graphics to make it all.... Computers are good enough these days that you don't really need to blow up 50 cars to make a good movie...

Global warming is manna from heaven for the lefties that want to control our lives. Global warming linked to CO2 linked to energy thus they have a lever into just about everything. The state is gonna get bigger, not that people seem to have a problem with that these days- short memories.

Carbon trading is going to be full of rorts and trickery. Cant wait for the cheap credits from China or some dodgy African failed state.