Global warming?

I'm not a "nay sayer" as you may think....I'm a REALIST who knows that untill we start hating being consumers, these problems will only get worse.

Who here that has posted on this thread, doesn't own a big screen tv?

I luv mine, but you know, I actually get more of a kick playing outside with my kids!

maybe we all could make a difference.

Not untill the superpowers start to care will we ever see a difference.


Stabbs

^^^^
Except it's not true. Like all the other dooms day predictions these scientists have made like rising temps and sea levels, neither of which have in fact happened.
Why should we believe anything they say?

Don't panic, here's the original

Non believer? I believe CO2 emissions trading is an old fashioned power/money grab.

So is a non believer a person who doesn't believe there's a an old fashioned power/money grab/con at hand?

The prospect of being able to con you and me out of 100's of billions of dollars, means this tax/ets won't go away, and putting a green sticker on it is just to sucker you in.

If I could use any less electricity/gas/water/petrol, I would.
Wouldn't you?

sebol: I think u've misunderstood what's happening. No politian is offering a solution to "climate change", they're only trying to TAX you.
Collecting the revenue... passing it on to some traders (probably in New York/London or both), who swap it for credits invented by a UN body. The UN body allocates credits based on census data or estimated population.
If a country has spare credits they can sell these.
Credit prices varie depending on a floating CO2 price.

You know how last year traders bought oil futures, taking the price of oil to $147 a barrel and costing us $1.70/l at the pump? Well they could easily do the same with CO2, then release some bs story that since world CO2 consumption is so high there's scarce credits.

Like I said before Australia is 99% dependent on CO2 emitting energy.
We will get allocated the same amount of credits as Ghana.
We will have to purchase credits immediately.

We won't be able to afford to Kite anymore... Nylon to produce the kites will go up. The petrol to drive to the beach will go up.

While the traders enjoy lavish life styles trading credits.

This is all about a bunch of UN beurocrats in cahoots with City of London/Wall St, getting the world in to an energy trading mechanism.

If you really want to get Australia to cut down CO2, then you have to endorse Nuclear or massive investment in Wind/Solar power.
Massive investment in forrest protection.
Massive reduction in mining/air travel/car travel/aggriculture/etc...

We won't have enough money to invest in any type of power if we constantly need to buy credits.

I agree with you, I already know that it won't be managed well and some people will make a killing from it and it could be an excellent option to maintain a balance of power leaning towards the existing strong world economies but it will still remain a push towards a greener economy with a more sustainable future and a lesser footprint on our planet.

You basically worry about being taxed, well I am very happy to be taxed a further 10% of my income even if I know that only half actually goes towards greener projects. I am pretty poor as it is so 10% wouldn't be much

And if the entire world population starts comiting money towards research and new greener strategies, I think that even if the entire global warming saga is a scham, we will still have a massive impact on the environment and your children and many more generations to come will thank you for actually revolutionising the way we treat our planet.

You may say,I am a dreamer but I am not the only one, I hope one day you will join us and the world will live as one (from a weirdo with round glasses).

Out of curiosity if climate change was cooling the earth would we be told to burn more fossil fuels?

Did humans cause the volcano to erupt and destroy Pompeii?

The tsunami that hit in 2006 was that caused by Humans?

Is that considered climate change,…..…..or maybe this is all beyond the influence of man!

The Multibillion Dollar Carbon Trading System

The carbon trading system is a multibillion money-making bonanza for the financial establishment. The stakes are extremely high and the various lobby groups on behalf of Wall Street have already positioned themselves.

According to a recent report, "the carbon market could become double the size of the vast oil market, according to the new breed of City players who trade greenhouse gas emissions through the EU's emissions trading scheme... The speed of that growth will depend on whether the Copenhagen summit gives a go-ahead for a low-carbon economy, but Ager says whatever happens schemes such as the ETS will expand around the globe." (Terry Macalister, Carbon trading could be worth twice that of oil in next decade, The Guardian, 28 November 2009) www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/nov/29/carbon-trading-market-copenhagen-summit

The large financial conglomerates, involved in derivative trade, including JP Morgan Chase, Bank America Merrill Lynch, Barclay's, Citi Bank, Nomura, Soci?t? G?n?rale, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs are actively involved in carbon trading.( FACTBOX: Investment banks in carbon trading | Reuters, 14 September 2009)
www.reuters.com/article/GCA-BusinessofGreen/idUSTRE58D3MH20090914?sp=true

The legitimacy of the carbon trading system rests on the legitimacy of the Global Warming Consensus, which views CO2 emissions as the single threat to the environment. And for Wall Street the carbon trading system is a convenient and secure money-making safety-net, allowing for the transfer of billions of dollars into the pockets of a handful of conglomerates.

"Every major financial house in New York and London has set up carbon trading operations. Very big numbers are dancing in their heads, and they need them to replace the "wealth" that evaporated in the housing bust. Louis Redshaw, head of environmental markets at Barclays Capital, told the New York Times, "Carbon will be the world's biggest market over all." Barclays thinks the current $60 billion carbon market could grow to $1 trillion within a decade. Four years ago Redshaw, a former electricity trader, couldn't get anyone to talk to him about carbon." (Mark Braly, The Multibillion Dollar Carbon Trading, RenewableEnergyWorld.com, 5 March 2008)
www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2008/05/trading-sub-prime-carbon-52326




Is the Global Warming Consensus based on reliable data?

There are indications that both the concepts and the data on temperature and greenhouse gas emissions including CO2 have been adjusted and shaped to fit the agenda of the UN Panel on Climate Change.

For several years, the claims of the UN Panel on Climate Change (UNPCC) including the data base have been questioned.
Critical analysis of the climate change consensus has been conveyed in reports by several prominent scientists.

There has been, in this regard, a persistent attempt to silence the critics as conveyed in the writings of MIT meteorologist Richard S. Lindzen

Scientists who dissent from the alarmism have seen their grant funds disappear, their work derided, and themselves libelled as industry stooges, scientific hacks or worse. Consequently, lies about climate change gain credence even when they fly in the face of the science that supposedly is their basis. (Ibid)

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Civil Society and Environmentalist Organizations
The Alternative to Copenhagen Summit: KlimaForum09

The NGOs will be meeting in a parallel alternative summit, KlimaForum09. More than 10,000 people a day are expected to attend the sessions of KlimatForum09

Major international NGOs and environmentalist groups will be in attendance including Friends of the Earth, Campaign against Climate Change among others.

Klimaforum09 is to finalize a draft declaration which "will put forth a vision of a more socially just world society, [while] emphasizing the need to create substantial changes in the social and economic structures of society in order to meet the challenges of global warming and food sovereignty." (See Declaration ? Klimaforum09)
www.klimaforum09.org/Declaration

While there is fierce opposition to the multibillion carbon trading system within the NGO community, the Alternative Summit will not challenge the Global Warming consensus and its underlying data base. (All events ? Klimaforum09)
www.klimaforum09.org/All-events.

While critical and active voices will emerge from within the various sessions of the Alternative Forum, the organizational envelope of KlimaForum09 remains compliant to the official agenda. In many regards, the rhetoric of the KlimaForum09's Danish organizers ties in with that of the host government of the offical Summit, which coincidentally also funds the Alternative Summit. (Political Platform ? Klimaforum09") www.klimaforum09.org/Political-Platform.

What this means is that the boundaries of dissent within the Alternative Summit have been carefully defined.

There can be no real activism unless the falsehoods and manipulations underlying the activities of the UNPCC, including the data base and the multibillion profit driven carbon trading scheme, are fully revealed, debated and understood.

In a later article I will show the many natural systems that play a major part in our climate, temperature and the environment we live in. Hopefully by the end of this series you will have a basic understanding as to how everything comes together to form this beautiful planet that we live in.

It will also reveal the "axis of evil" that add unnecessary pressure to these systems all in the name of economic greed and control of the world's resources.

As we have previously discussed the earths land sea and air is like one big washing machine that continue to recycle itself. One can say with confidence that although climate change is a natural phenomenon man does put pressures on the natural eco-systems. The commercialization of vast tracts of land however is the main issue because this is carried out on a huge scale with the involvement of central and local governments, large transnational corporations, oil companies, mining companies, logging companies, bio fuel companies and the beef industry.

To put things into perspective the amount of CO2 released into the atmosphere in Brazil (from burning off for example) has in the past equaled the total pollution from all modes of transport in the world. It is also a fact that more pollution comes from cattle (methane) than from all the vehicles in the world. Let's look at another example that occurred some years ago. The OK Tedi mine (in the high country of Papua New Guinea) had installed tailing dams to take highly toxic waste from the gold and copper processing plant. As one would expect the deluge of rainfall in this area can be very devastating. At one stage excessive rains caused the water to spill over and enter the Fly River.

This river flows from the high country down to the sea and is also relatively fast flowing. The river is the lifeline for the many primitive native villages that run along its length, especially for the fish that it yields. This accident caused highly toxic waste (Cyanide) to flow down the entire Fly River and enter into the sea adjacent to one of the worlds listed national park (The Great Barrier Reef). This simple act of neglect caused the entire fly rivers to be almost void of fish resulting in the loss of a vital nutrition for the river dwellers. What as all this got to do with the various natural cycles you might ask? Simply the fact that large corporate companies (including their Wall Street and London City Bankers) continue to damage our world unrestricted. Those less fortunate are blamed and have to pay a stealth tax.

Let's take a few examples of some of those G20 countries that want to exploit the rest of the world under their scaremonger tactics called "Global Warming." Can one possibly imagine the financial and economic gains that can be achieved if this lie is successful in Copenhagen next week? Can we imagine their pitch as they tell us we are running out of time and that we have to take action now? Can we imagine a third world country being forced to take on some of the G20 technology such as nuclear power stations or a huge commitment to the World Bank (G20 Bank!) or the IMF with a forced lowering of trade barriers? Can we imagine a poor country (that can survive without any of this) being forced to become indebted to the G20 world of bankers? This is the truth behind this "Global Warming Fa?ade" It is to force the underdeveloped countries to buy G20 technology, go deeper into debt and therefore become less competitive with its newly acquired higher cost infrastructure.

The G20 countries are: Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States and the European Union. Let's take Argentina, retail beef sales totaled close to $8 billion resulting in the loss of huge tracts of land. Foreign investors are actively purchasing agricultural land in Argentina because prices are low compared with other industrialized countries; local slaughterhouses are also being purchased by foreign investors. Key players are John Deere and Massey Ferguson, Monsanto-Cargill and Dow, Digital Angel and Allflex to name a few. The government undertook a modernization plan for Argentina's beef industry, with funding support from international financial institutions. Total cattle stocks in Argentina are currently over 55million head and their major market is the EU. Between 1992 and 2002, export taxes on grains and other agricultural products were removed. Further, reductions in import taxes on key inputs promoted a high use of fertilizers, agrochemicals and other modern inputs in the main annual crops. Increased productivity and revenues per hectare during this period resulted in the expansion of crops, particularly soybeans.

With the US and EU push for Bio Fuels even more tracts of land are being consumed. This entails the removal of prime natural forest and replaced with Palm Oil Plantations that really do nothing for environmental. The gains in such ventures is for extremely large Trans national corporations (TNC's) to secure their economic growth at whatever the cost (our eco-systems!).
Oil/ Mining is also big here and therefore we see a clear picture of development versus environment. Can you imagine the scale of lost natural vegetation?

Can you imagine the methane value from 55 million head of cattle? Can you imagine the chemical value from Monsanto?.now you are beginning to see the true picture.......massive international banking and corporate sector investment and ownership with World Bank or the IMF sitting in the middle. This same story can be repeated on a bigger scale in Brazil with huge tracts of land lost to Oil - Gas - Mining - Cattle - Bio Fuel - Timber etc.

Environmentally speaking the loss of the Amazon has severe repercussions on the world's environment and weather. The region is considered to be the world's "lungs" for its capacity to absorb carbon emissions. Another very important factor is that jungles and forests create moisture or transpiration (rain) The loss of this valuable asset is beyond words and again if we multiply this environmental damage in many other areas of the world we can see that although the natural cycle of the world is taking place the Governments, International Trans National Corporations(TNC's), Oil and Mining Companies, World Bank/IMF and those notorious Wall Street and London Banking sectors are at the helm of this damage.

This propaganda machine is well oiled!............this week in the build up to Copenhagen our media has bombarded us with many issue such as car exhaust and our own carbon footprint and on the other hand putting a strong emphasis on the underdeveloped countries as being the main instigators of pollution. This spin is absolutely incorrect...it is hiding the true polluters...Yes you go it right "The G20 countries and all those listed above."

So let's take a look at what is really happening in such places as Brazil. Major Oil and Mining Companies are just a few examples of what's going on. They cut burn and clear to set up their huge opencast mining venture. They bleed the earth of all of its natural resources and leave behind total devastation that can only be described as a moonscape. Environmentally this has severe implications on not only the general areas weather but also its ability to cause major problems in other areas of the world such as the ice caps. Let's just stay with this example now and show what happens when such development goes along unchecked.

The suns energy is absorbed in the Amazon which has its own unique weather pattern. This very humid - steamy environment is full of so much energy as its releases its oxygen and moisture into the atmosphere and takes back in CO2.

By midday the storm clouds begin to form and by the afternoon torrential downpours take place and the whole cycle starts again.

When such areas are void of the jungle the landscape is basically a desert full of the leftovers from the mining industry such as toxic waste in the soil and a totally collapsed eco-system. The suns energy is now absorbed directly into the soil with a considerable amount being reflected off this earth and back into the environment. Now we see a totally different atmosphere in the region of hot and arid conditions with higher temperatures and dust particles etc. These air masses are extremely powerful and carry with them the dust from the region to far away places. Those particles have the ability to not only blanket the earth and thus reduce inbound energy from the sun but also to deposit themselves on the vegetation or food crops below. Obviously if the mine is an opencast uranium mine then one can expect such particles to be radioactive. Now we can see many variables at work such as airborne pollution, radiation contamination and rising temperatures if void of dust or drop in temperature in the sun is filtered by particles. This creates dramatic changes in wind speed as both hot and cold air masses collide etc.

When this occurs up in the polar regions the winds or storms can have dramatic effects on the polar ice caps and when mixed with the other cycles such as sea currents which are doing almost the same thing and other natural phenomena we can better understand why dramatic changes in the region occur. Obviously when the ice is reduced its ability to interact with the world's atmosphere is severely hampered. The exchange of temperature or control of temperature changes and sea levels rise.

It is very clear that the earth itself has continues cycles of natural events to which we cannot model on a computer. On the other hand the main issue that adds to this natural cycle is such things as the G20 countries own fast moving economic greed. They are the biggest users of fuel and energy, they are the biggest polluters which results in this "Global Warming Propaganda" that we endure to this day.

In my next article we will cover some more examples of "Big Brother Tactics" and their direct effect on our environment. I will also show some diagrams on the earth natural cycles. I sincerely hope that we all take our time and not rush to Copenhagen in such a blind - brainwashed way. Let's put pressure on our governments to ease the carbon footprint with much more logical methods of control rather than to hit ordinary people with stealth taxes and punish third world countries. If we allow this to happen then the Bankers in Wall Street and London will be extremely happy but in return we will see more severe poverty develop in those countries outside of the G20..........watch this place for the next article.


To read the previous 2:
http://www.paltelegraph.com/columnists/peter-eyre/3017-the-myths-of-global-warming-part-2-do-you-think-they-are-lying-of-course-they-are

www.paltelegraph.com/diaries/featured-articles/3003-the-myths-of-global-warming-part-1-do-you-think-they-are-lying-of-course-they-are

^^^^^
Simple Stamp, don't read it!
A few compelling points raised tho

www.prisonplanet.com/al-gores-crumbling-credibility-cracked-by-climategate.html