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Hey Peeps,
I just read the official release in the AKSA newsletter about the two part competition for the nationals ie having the Waves in Queensland and the freestyle in Victoria. On top of this there is possibility that the sport will be split into three seperate events in the future! 
As much as I fully support having the sport seperated for individual disciplines (as in Gerro), I think holding the events 2000km apart is ridiculous and a sure fire way to dramatically reduce numbers at both events. 
Not to mention we will now require two weeks annual leave to attend both if you want to compete for the overall title. I understand it is easier to judge and we can focus on each particular discipline yadeyadeyada....., but come on is this really the answer? There must be somplace on the entire East coast that can play host to both disciplines at the same venue, even if it takes a couple of extra days it will be better than having two weeks in two locations.
Maybe we just need to combine the two disciplines again as we did in Cronulla and Narrowneck Queensland the two previous years so we can have it at one venue. 
splitting the events and venues will surely result in West Aussies not being able to afford to fly with all their gear to both events, this is ridiculous and totally favours east coast riders. [}:)] At least when it was at Gerro, riders only needed one flight and could do both. What about the groms who's parents will now need to take their kids to two events in two seperate states chewing up valuable family holiday time?
How does everyone else feel about this idea? Not happy!
Non competitor perspective
I reckon it suks too. If I cant get to see all events at 1 spot I wouldn't bother going
Agree with Darren completely, theres gotta be 1 place that can host both even if its not the same beach.
Is Gero really THAT good 
hmmm .... yep probly is.
But Darren they could always leave all the WA competitors off the list & run a 'B' grade Nationals - 
only joking 
not that i'd ever compete in competition of this nature but I can see why it bites...
If they want to split it maybe at least have 1 event on each coast, that way neither is disadvantaged...
Obviously the best idea is having split events at the same time, perhaps making the comp over from friday till the following sunday would be best, giving more time to get both waves and freestyle comps off, and possible changing venues, i.e freestyle here, and waves 10-20-30 min up the coast...
Gotta be better solutions than what they're suggesting.
i dont see why you cant just have the whole lot at queensland. if u get a score out of 5 scoring moves. 3 freestyle 2 wave rides per heat. that is a 60/40 split and somewhere like the goldcoast would be able to do that. if it is split it will be too much money and people will only be able to afford 1. and if u dont go to both and only go to 1 then why bother because if u do well in 1 and dont do the other u will finish near the bottom anyway. i vote 1 if u have 2 people wont go and it will be a flop. as much as everyone whinged about it gero was perfect. why cant u have 2 events at 1 location. it was done over here.
I tend to agree, its may dramatically reduce numbers attending and is hell of a lot more to organise. Make it one event, WA did and so can the east coast. 
100% spot on Darren!
We were stunned when we read that yesterday, glad you have mentioned it here for discussion.
Gero was awesome because both classes were held at the one venue.
Surely somewhere on the East coast can offer similar venues? Choosing St Kilda and Kawana might make sense because there are volunteers at these locations to help make each event happen, but wouldn't it be better to have the one event in a location that suited both styles?
Its not like St Kilda is really the best spot in Vic for flatwater and freestyle, nor is Kawana Qld ideal for waveriding, both spots are low on the quality scale compared to what else is available in each state.
Surely a list of suitable spots needs to be drawn up, then one of them decided upon to hold the nats at - both freestyle and waveriding?
It will be a flop for all concerned to split the nats into 2 separate events, the sport is not big enough to support that yet, the sport has not really even evolved into needing 2 separate disciplines yet has it??. The sport is totally wind dependent, why scew it up by casting the dice against ourselves by insisting there has to be good wind and decent kiteable waves at the same time in one location??
Why not have it like in other years, if there are waves at a chosen location have a wave event, if not just have freestyle?
Seems like someone in AKSA made a king solomon executive decision, trying to please too many people at once??.
Cya and
Goodwinds
Steve McCormack
Just another sad chapter in kitesurfings slow,certain road to self destruction !
In this scarcely pop country of ours I feel we should identify the best spot and have it there over and over again....continuous improvement on what works best.
Hoo Roo
Hi all, in regards to having to nats split into 2 states. I don't think that this can work as darren and rest of you have said already.
I can name some unreal spots on the gold coast and sunshine coasts that are capable of holding both waves and freestyle.
It will surely be interesting to see what will happen with this.
I'm sure people will find it hard for annual leave and finances to attend both if held in separate states.
Although i live and kite on the gold coast,I say go for the sunshine coast, it's warm, the wind is good and it has all the facilities for the travelling kiteboarder.They also have more spots where you have waves and flat water combined, on the gold coast we really only have The Alley that has waves and flat water in the one spot but the Alley is used by many water sports (surfing, rowing, kiting, windsurfing and it's also a boating channel)
VOTE 1 for the sunshine coast. No matter where it ends up i'm sure we will all make an effort to get there regardless.
Regards,Angela
"Just another sad chapter in kitesurfings slow,certain road to self destruction !"
Have to disagree there.
Most people are into kitesurfing because it is such a stoke .They couldn't really give a toss about comps and the sport succeeds regardless .
Ask most skiers and snowboarders about the comp scene and they wouldn't have a clue.Those sports aren't self destructing.
I agree , two different locations that far apart is going to kill the Nationals .
Even with the promise of the best conditions and the highest percantage of wind at Gero , we still only just got enough competitors to break even in the costs .
It is going to be harder to get sponsorship dollars for two smaller comps in different states .
The freestyle comp will get the numbers but the wave event is going to struggle .
The way things are going over here more and more people are losing interest in competing , this is not going to help .
I understand that it is difficult to organise this sort of thing , (if it wasn't for Gavin , I'd hate to think what would have happened here in WA ) however Gavin has worked out a lot of things and is happy to advise the next organisers .
It would be a shame if it all fell apart after the huge effort Gavin put in to give the Nationals real creditabilty .
As well as the judging system that Ian Young started and AKSA fine tuned , the format has been accepted as workable . Both of these still have flaws but at least a model has been found that can be corrected and improved on .
Given the above , the task to run the next Nationals is going to involve a lot less work than the Gero one .
Personally I think having two comps is going to result in very poor numbers and will end up being an East Coast comp .
Mike Bergman
before everyone dishes the idea.... have a look at gero.. it's 4000 km + 600km car drive to get there and because of it, WA made up half the entrants... Not because there weren't enough riders to go down from the east coast , but because people couldn't get there or didn't want to go... If you have it in Melbourne... then they would have no probs getting numbers ,if some people couldn't have two weeks of leave to attend both comps that won't have a huge impact either, and I'd guess the bulk of the riders are between the two states anyhow,for people from WA who only saw the 40 or so people from over east... just look at the mambo we had last year, 150 riders.... the people in brisbane who have to travel 2000km to get to melbourne face the same travel problem BUT having half the event in their state means they won't have to travel twice..so basically people on the east coast don't travel too far for the event ie NSW, or travel once for half of it, and the other half in their state.the event should be over quicker as there isn't a need for running both events for the same time.
a. what happens when there is no wind at the event, and we all go down there and wave and freestyle can't get done in time cause theirs too many heats to cram in?
and y bother going to both... If you can't make both, y not go to to one you like doing better? I don't see what the big deal is... If you really like waves... you'd probably just go to the wave event. Does it matter if you get ranked 3rd in waves, and go down to 20th overall cause you didn't compete? Probably to the hardcore and sponsered dudes!
Combine both existing disciplines (waveriding and freestyle) into a hot style called freewavekiting.
Choose premium venues (for instance in WA) like Esperence, Margies and Gnaraloo, Local Authority approval permitting.
Shoot the event with multiple land cameras and a couple of jetski-cams and package up into a media piece.
Now there's an act.
Hey Dachopper,
Firstly, Mambo is not regarded as a serious competition, it is a piss up and huge party. No one goes to Mambo for the competition, it's about the goodtime and the vibe, winning or placing is just a bonus, 99% don't give a toss as long as the pub doesn't run out of grog, and the BBQ doesn't run out of food, they're happy.
As for the Nationals, it is the only fully serious competition in Australia and most people who go and travel any distance to enter are serious about doing their best. You may also note that probably 90% + of the riders in the nationals ARE sponsored and do take it seriously. Some rely on placing to keep sponsors happy so saying "just don't go" isn't right.
I enjoy both disciplines and enjoy competing for the overall title, why do I have to make a choice? If I have to make a choice I would choose waves and so would many of my fellow kiter mates, so automatically we are the minority and have a better than 50-50 chance of the wave event being called off due to lack of numbers to make it financial and the difficulty in gaining sponsors.
The Melbourne comp would be a lessened with smaller numbers and mostly East Coast crew entering. This would reduce the impact of the event and would have a negetive impact on the public and sponsors and possible future of the nationals.
What's wrong with a unified nationals? It would take less energy and effort than seperate locations if you enlist the assistance of Gav, and I know he'd be more than happy to help out. Come on East coast, get it together! Lets come up with a solution
Good winds
So, where is that majic sopt over East where people can kite, party and have a crowd?
I'm dying to fly over East. But I do question kiting in Melb. though (despite 45% prob. of good S wind), I've been there a few times and the water near St. Kilda reminds me of the Hudson River in NYC...yuck. However, I'm sure Melb. could org. a good foam party.
PS I'de be more than happy to volunteer again, but one place only please and one event only as I want to fly also.
Hey Kitehard
quote:
As for the Nationals, it is the only fully serious competition in Australia and most people who go and travel any distance to enter are serious about doing their best. You may also note that probably 90% + of the riders in the nationals ARE sponsored and do take it seriously.
quote:
So, where is that majic sopt over East where people can kite, party and have a crowd?
I'm dying to fly over East.
So Missy, looking at Newcastle...it is near Port Macquarie right?
The wind rose for Jan.:
9am shows 18% chance for NE, with a 60% chance of being >20 km/hr.
3pm shows 37% chance for NE, with a 50% chance of being >20 km/hr.
Feb:
9am shows 32% chance for SW, with a 45% chance of being >20 km/hr.
3pm shows 33% chance for NE, with a 50% chance of being >20 km/hr.
Missy, it is about $, but also a game of odds. Check out www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/wind/wind_rose.shtml to check my interpretation.
Hoo Roo
PS Where are you Gavin H?
Hey Missy,
It's not a convenience thing, each year West Oz kiters have made the trip to east coast to attend the nats and other events like Mambo and no one is complaining, we also aren't complaining about it being on the east coast. we are complaining about the split venue and what it will do to the nationals.
I and a few others have traveled to and competed in every nats and also the Schick and Redbull in NZ amongst other comps and enjoy the getaway, never comlained about the travel, but splitting one competition into two states 2000 k's apart is just dumb.
I reckon if the results were weighted evenly between waves and freestyle, then that would make it more interesting. The split will see the demise of the wave event in any real significance, pushing this discipline out of the spotlight into which it has started to emerge.
I agree with you that Newcastle should be looked at. Nobbys would be excellent or what about the Northern side of entrance to the harbour on Stockton Beach? Flat and waves and wind, ideal. Permission should be easy to get, great spectator location and home to some great kiters, quality beaches, buggying etc. It is equidistant to all on the east coast and makes no difference to us from the west. Just as long as we get fun conditions.
What of it AKSA? What about it Mr Float? Ideal spot, you even have the AKSA secretary and comittee members in your backyard to assist.
Between, Dave Sorro, Mike W, Lachy, Emma and Andy to name just a few, couldn't it be done? Working with Gav it would be a cinch!
I don't care where it is, just as long as it is in one location.
Best winds
yep, 2 locations sucks :(
the newsletter sounded a little like splitting into two events to "grow" the sport to have more events which also kinda sucks
Hi Gruize
Newcastle is about 2.5 hrs south of Pt Macquarie.The better comparison is Williamtown.Many will be amazed that A We don't actually get alot of wind come out of the NE and that BThe difference in the Roses between PT Macquarie and Williamtown .
3 pm Rose for Williamtown looks good. 33% chance of SE, and 80% of time >20 km/hr. So when it blows it is strong.
I think you will find that the wind strengths on the rose are in KM/H rather than knots .Also a SE wind is directlty onshore at most spots here.
I agree with Darren - this sux big time. There are a heap of venues on the East Coast that can take both disciplines.
I am a big believer in the need for AKSA but if they don't consult the State Associations before they make decisions like this they they will lose support.
I was hoping that after Gero, there might be a little sympathy with the cost and effort it takes to travel across the country to participate in comps - now they make it twice as hard for WA :-(
Sympathy? With all the fantastic wind you get over there?
Yeah, I'm reaaaaaaal sympathetic 
Seriously, it does suck and I think it's a death bell for the wave riding event. Even in Gero the wave riding didn't seem to count for much, the top 2 men in the open basically were also the top 2 men in the freestyle. (I think Adam came 16th in waves and Daniel 9th or so?)
quote:
Originally posted by ianyoung
now they make it twice as hard for WA :-(
I would like to hear it. Try as I may I cannot fathom how it could ever have been suggested; let alone discussed; AND approved please.
just a thought...
Perhaps the president of aksa had/has sponsors and/or approval lined up for these locations after the colapse of the AKL tour thingy?
After all the president of aksa and the former organiser of AKL are the same person arent they...?
Just food for thought, I know nothing...
I'm a little suprised the Aksa hasnt responded to this thread... surely someone to do with aksa reads the posts here as it would be the easiest way to get a cross section of the opinions of kiters accross the entire country...
let's not forget though, that as for the NATS in WA, WA made up half the field because 4000 kms was too far to travel for most of the east coast riders.... Even if we have the event in Melbourne only ... there will be alot of people in Brisbane that won't want to travel 2000kms and go.... so if you are having a single event on the east coast , my thoughts would be somewhere in NSW, ie $80 plane flight from the neighboring states to get in there, and not to far from sydney so there's not a 6 hour cab/drive/train ride to get there from the airport..
nobbies is good. for those that havn't kited there www.stickybeek.com.au has a beach / wavecam situated near there and on surrounding beaches, they have hosted state comps there kiting and windsurfing before and IMO has enough room for freest and waves with great viewing from the dunes onshore.
wind strength is less than gero... MR float could give an indication of what typical winds you'd get in what month.
I agree with dachopper , Newcastle would be the best location as far as " easy to get to ".
The conditions and set up sound as good as anywhere else .
The only thing is , are there any local people prepared to do the organising there ?
There are lots of things to consider when choosing a location and local volunteers and support is one of the main factors unfortunately .
If there are people in Newcastle that are prepared to take on the task , please get in touch with AKSA and prepose this to them before it is too late .
WAKSA's first choice was not Gero but upon reconsideration of ALL the facts it became clear that Gero was going to be the best option .
As it stands now I would not go to iether comp , if it was to be held in Newcastle I will be there .
