Forums > Kitesurfing General

TANDEM KITING (with the little ones)

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Created by ruffryder61 > 9 months ago, 12 Dec 2008
Spacemonkey!
SA, 2288 posts
15 Dec 2008 6:32PM
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Wow you mean to tell me if you go in the water there is a possibilty of drowning? Thanks for the heads up.

Let me get this straight, you aknowledge there is more chance being killed in a car crash and it is more dangerous driving your kid down the beach and you probably do that all the time, take em to school, to friends houses etc.

But you won't let them have piggy back for a few runs at a lesser risk? Seriously name a water sport that would be less a risk. How many kids have died kiting, I'm willing to bet, zero. (Not saying it isn't possible). If your in the water theres a risk that they might drown. I would hate to see what some of you would think of Trav Pastrana doing a back flip on his motor cross bike with his young cousin sitting in front of him.

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
15 Dec 2008 7:12PM
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^--- What exactly are the statistics?

Num kiters/kiter deaths
Num drivers/driver deaths?

I think the point most are trying to make, keeping it with comparing cars and kites, is that the harness is a bit of a death trap, a safety belt is not.

Someone mentioned that particular brand has a release, I wouldn't expect a 3 yr old to release herself in an emergency situation.

knot board
QLD, 1241 posts
15 Dec 2008 6:25PM
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Spacemonkey! said...

Wow you mean to tell me if you go in the water there is a possibilty of drowning? Thanks for the heads up.

Let me get this straight, you aknowledge there is more chance being killed in a car crash and it is more dangerous driving your kid down the beach and you probably do that all the time, take em to school, to friends houses etc.

But you won't let them have piggy back for a few runs at a lesser risk? Seriously name a water sport that would be less a risk. How many kids have died kiting, I'm willing to bet, zero. (Not saying it isn't possible). If your in the water theres a risk that they might drown. I would hate to see what some of you would think of Trav Pastrana doing a back flip on his motor cross bike with his young cousin sitting in front of him.



Are you high?

mytchook
QLD, 561 posts
15 Dec 2008 6:33PM
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Spacemonkey.... Just one question, Do you have children????

meerkat
WA, 644 posts
15 Dec 2008 5:37PM
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Spacemonkey! said...

Wow you mean to tell me if you go in the water there is a possibilty of drowning?

Let me get this straight, you aknowledge there is more chance being killed in a car crash and it is more dangerous driving your kid down the beach and you probably do that all the time, take em to school, to friends houses etc.

But you won't let them have piggy back for a few runs at a lesser risk? Seriously name a water sport that would be less a risk. How many kids have died kiting, I'm willing to bet, zero. (Not saying it isn't possible). If your in the water theres a risk that they might drown. I would hate to see what some of you would think of Trav Pastrana doing a back flip on his motor cross bike with his young cousin sitting in front of him.




I'll take into consideration that you haven't got any kids, that aside.

Why would you intentionally put any child in more danger than they need to be, like on purpose like, you know?

My car is an all wheel drive with curtain airbags, anti-lock brakes. You know like safety is built into it, like oh my god. And the comment about strapping onto the roof, like, was only a joke, oh my god!

Statistics mean nothing. It only has to happen once to your ONLY child, like once you know, cause like when you only have one child.

Watersports less of a risk and as much fun(for a three year old as pictured).

* Building sand castles at the beach as the water splashs over the wall
* splashing about in ankle deep water
* sailing in a yacht with everybody wearing a lifejacket, multiple adults to assist the injured
* fishing in a boat wtih everybody wearing a lifejacket in safe seas
etc
etc

hang on hang on...... you are trolling aren't you? surely?

And if you aren't AND you seriously cannot comprehend what i am talking about, then volunteer at your local lifesaving club for a couple of months. Seriously are you trolling?

Spacemonkey!
SA, 2288 posts
15 Dec 2008 7:21PM
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meerkat said...
Why would you intentionally put any child in more danger than they need to be, like on purpose like, you know?


It's a mild risk, people take them all the time, for the sheer fun and thrill. No one is forcing you to strap your kids to your backs all I am saying is that IMO for a sensible experienced kiter the dangers are minimal and acceptable for the experience given.

Can't wrap your kids in cotton wool forever.

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
15 Dec 2008 8:25PM
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evlPanda said...

Someone mentioned that particular brand has a release, I wouldn't expect a 3 yr old to release herself in an emergency situation.



There's no release, ^^^
but even if there was.....
she's too young to understand survival tactics.
The age of reason is 7 years of age.
She's just a guinea-pig for her Daddy's experiment.

user
WA, 1140 posts
15 Dec 2008 8:30PM
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Plenty of opinions here :

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44724

phrase
WA, 228 posts
16 Dec 2008 2:00AM
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I`m so glad my parents were how they were and not the type that wanted to keep me wrapped up in cotton wool. My dad was always doing "stupid" crazy things with my brother and I. And we loved it!
I know there is the other side to the argument, things can go wrong etc. But personally I wouldn`t have wanted it any other way. And I think it`s made me the person I am today, no not stupid and reckless just fun and outgoing, enjoy life to the fullest.
My experience with kids, especially quite young ones is that if they don`t want to do something you`ll know it (they scream their heads off, cry etc.)
I think it goes without saying, you`re not going to start doing crazy tricks with your kid on your back (my dad probably would have), or under dodgey wind, sea conditions. Just a little cruise not too far out and back. And you obviously wont launch and land with littleone on your back.

Manny
WA, 89 posts
16 Dec 2008 2:27AM
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This is a very old photo. My dad used to take us swimming to this river, after the rains the rapids were very strong. Was that irresponsible? Probably, but it was great fun! We used to beg our parents to take us there.

lostinlondon
VIC, 1159 posts
16 Dec 2008 5:44AM
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chronic said...

yep it looks cool and a great photo

i gave my feral newphews a double last summer 12 and 13 years old - one at a time

not only did they choke the crap out of me when i did it, the kite itself became under a massive strain ,i'm 90kg they're about 50 kg each. i could actually see it straining under the load. no problem that day.tacked back and forth 2 or 3 times each.

guess what next time i rode the kite the leading edge blew out when a guy caught it on the beach, $80 later fixed it up.
next time i pumped it the leading blew up on the beach. both time at the very spot where one of the lines were connected. the kite fixer upper guy gave the sad news my kite was well and truly rooted for good.

so i gave it to mate who needed a bladder, and eventually i bought it from him once he got his next kite.

equipment failure and kites go hand in hand and if on the water can end in disaster




Excellent case in point. You only need the LE to blow out or a line snap and then what are you going to do? It's hard enough work self rescuing yourself let alone with a panicky kid on your back, PFD or not... It's all cool when things are going well, the kid will have fun, but if it went to custard could you live with the consequences? I would find it bloody hard to do so.

Giving your kid rollerblades or a bicycle is totally different to this. You can control the variables a lot better, ie. a 4 year old would have training wheels, wear a helmet and only cycle around the driveway or down at the school tennis courts. Same thing with skates. If they fall over (and hey, that's going to happen) it's not the same as something going wrong 100, 200m from shore.

UNCLEDOUG
VIC, 22 posts
16 Dec 2008 8:36AM
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What a bunch of f$%king idiots!
Mild risk, acceptable and kids in the same sentence? Yeah right buddy.
Regular day to day life activities where kids are concerned granted, are dangerous enough.
But you keep rolling the dice my friend, keep running with the "kids in cotton wool" defence, yeah she'll be right, up the ante, it's only a little risk,what could possibly happen? After all Im an expert coitsurfer.

Risk vs outcome - do the math, you all obviously have your heads up your a***s.
Lets talk to the kids in RCH or people at docs who have suffered/witnessed the consequences of an adults perception of "acceptable or minor risk".

Perfect argument for contraception.

Spacemonkey!
SA, 2288 posts
16 Dec 2008 10:19AM
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UNCLEDOUG said...

What a bunch of f$%king idiots!
Mild risk, acceptable and kids in the same sentence? Yeah right buddy.
Regular day to day life activities where kids are concerned granted, are dangerous enough.
But you keep rolling the dice my friend, keep running with the "kids in cotton wool" defence, yeah she'll be right, up the ante, it's only a little risk,what could possibly happen? After all Im an expert coitsurfer.

Risk vs outcome - do the math, you all obviously have your heads up your a***s.
Lets talk to the kids in RCH or people at docs who have suffered/witnessed the consequences of an adults perception of "acceptable or minor risk".

Perfect argument for contraception.




No one wants kids to get injured and those who do it is very sad. The point that people are trying to make is that the risk of doing this is comparable to various other common activities kids do everyday, thus acceptable. I understand if you don't let your kid do anything dangerous (like drive in a car, swim at the beach, leave them unattended) then letting them come kiting with you would be a pretty big jump.

Parents are protective in nature and would definately assess each situation thoroughly before taking their kids out on the water. I'm sure the parent wouldn't take out their kid without a PFD if both them and their child weren't able to swim. I'm sure they wouldn't ride 2km offshore, go out in strong gusty wind, go out in fronts, ride big surf, try tricks. Kiting can be dangerous but almost all accidents are related to inexperience or dodgy weather. Gear failure can happen but like I said before I'm sure the parent isn't taking the kid far offshore in offshore winds etc.

I think it is pretty harsh to call someone a F'in idiot when you probably have no idea of the exact circumstances. Knee Jerk reaction.

colinwill78
VIC, 1395 posts
16 Dec 2008 11:01AM
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UNCLEDOUG said...

coitsurfer.



LOL Why haven't i heard this one before!!


keep up the debate guys, a good read.



looks like great fun......but so does drink driving.

Personally, I won't be doing the tandem kite thing. I have tried to justify it to myself and think how to make it safe enough to do. Onshore wind, shallow flat water, observers, PFD's, no harness, ride carefully etc etc.
I have no doubt I could do it with my children and get them back 99 times out of 100.
But no, I won't be introducing my kids to kitesurfing like this.

I hope if people continue to do this seemingly crazy activity that it never goes wrong.
No-one here wants to say "I told you so" when it does.
You don't have to wrap them in cotton wool, but a PFD would be great (and far better than cotton wool when in the water) I'm sure you are taking other measures.

P.S. don't send that photo to the dept of social services

airush geoff
974 posts
16 Dec 2008 9:10AM
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How about we all tell others how they should live their lives, what they should and shouldn't do, what they can and can't watch- oh yeah and how to raise their kids.

We live in the biggest nation of wowsers and killjoys who want everybody else to be as boring as them...

I am sick to death of the fun police- a dad spending time doing something fun with his kids is a positive in my opinion.

When I have kids ( I don't yet ) they will be out scraping knees and breaking bones like kids should.

Fun up you old sad sacks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

brady
TAS, 451 posts
16 Dec 2008 11:39AM
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I'm thinking this little teacup has got quite a storm brewing in it. For crying out loud guys, what a bunch of moaners!

I love the idea of taking my daughter out like that. She's not yet two, so it's a few years away. But it looks like a great activity.

Yeah, sure you'd have to choose the time and place. But somewhere that was thigh deep a few hundred metres out would be sweet. A nice steady seabreeze.

It's been shown time after time that people's perceotion of risk is terrible. People are afraid of flying. In terms of deaths per kilopmetres travelled, cars a hundreds of times more dangerous. I was reading somewhere that after september 11 world trade centre stuff, there was a massive downturn in people flying, and people drive instead. As a consequence the road toll increased significantly, and about the same number of excess deaths occurred from car accidents over the next six months

I might have the numbers a bit wrong, but the point holds. Great article in New Scientist a couple of months ago about it.

Skateboarding in the driveway is safe? I don't think so. Working in emergency departments I've seen some bloody terrible accidents.

Dumbass
SA, 48 posts
16 Dec 2008 11:11AM
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amazing, it's obviously only knee deep, if something went wrong ditch the whole kite, don't even use a leash. Carry kid back to mum with the camera. Get kite. And yes you can do this safely you pack of retards.

No-one else around, Queensland sunny seabreeze by the looks of it, great fun.

Why all this wowser bull****? This sounds like a bunch of women dribbling **** justifying owning massive SUV's for the safety of thier children.

My kids, one is 1.5, come canoeing with me. Sure they have a PFD, but the boat could roll, they could get a knock on their head, they could drown! Yes, but they could also miss out on fishing, seeing different places, tranquillty, and experience.

Raise your kids however you friggin well want to, and ease up on how others decide to raise theirs.

colinwill78
VIC, 1395 posts
16 Dec 2008 12:13PM
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airush geoff said...

How about we all tell others how they should live their lives, what they should and shouldn't do, what they can and can't watch- oh yeah and how to raise their kids.

We live in the biggest nation of wowsers and killjoys who want everybody else to be as boring as them...

I am sick to death of the fun police- a dad spending time doing something fun with his kids is a positive in my opinion.

When I have kids ( I don't yet ) they will be out scraping knees and breaking bones like kids should.

Fun up you old sad sacks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Agreed totally.... until I had kids.
Believe me, they get plenty of knee scraping, and will no doubt break a few bones as they grow up.
I'm not going to tell anyone how to raise their kids, but surely you can all see that there is a point where you simply have to speak up. For most it seems to be around the point people start risking their kids lives in pursuit of a thrill. It's the risk perception that varies. Some don't get it (to the point of Naivety), some over estimate it (paranoid). We all think we are well-grounded and justified though.

For me the 12 Y.O. hanging on the backs like monkeys seems a good enough option. But at 12 i would've thought maybe old enough to start kite surfing anyway.

The 4 Y.O. in a harness, well, not something i'd do, and i wouldn't encourage it. But I won't go around telling people not to do it.

It's going to be your call, but you're making it on behalf of your kids, so think of them.


and please please please............ don't ever be as boring as me

au_rick
WA, 752 posts
16 Dec 2008 10:28AM
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yeah, what if the dog fell into the water and got run over by a windsurfer with a razor sharp titanium fin with saw teeth ??

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
16 Dec 2008 11:08AM
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Big girls enjoy horsey-rides too. ^^^
Giddy-up.

kiter789
NSW, 238 posts
16 Dec 2008 1:36PM
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waveslave said...



Big girls enjoy horsey-rides too. ^^^
Giddy-up.


^^^^^ Just wait till he figures out the girl goes on the front!

Seriously now, smut aside....I laughed at several things in this thread; First;

No kids have been killed kitesurfing. Ah well, statistically - you're sweet! No elephants have been killed kiting either, so line em up!

And the pic in the river....nice pic. I think the point here is....I used to beg my Dad to let me drive the truck while puffing through a pack of his Rothmans. Kids aren't always the best judge of good ideas. Lots of stuff looks like fun till right up til you're dead. My Dad reckoned he was just going to get a tape recorder with "No, because I said so" on repeat.

I know there's too much cotton wool but as pointed out above; it's all about where to draw the line. I don't think kiting with a kid on your back is really dangerous, but I think it's a bit over the line for my tastes - I've seen it all go wrong too often I guess. Maybe I'd feel more confident if I'd not seen the carnage I have, I can't say.....

eightfootplus
NSW, 298 posts
16 Dec 2008 2:04PM
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just do it, whats the worst that can happen?

if the kids gets hurt then you will never forgive yourself,
the wife will never let you forget,
and if you really hurt them, Docs wont let you forget.


Best to let them hang onto the harness while you body drag, that way they can let go after they get a gob full of sea water, or let them sit on the front of a windsurfer while you kite, there are uses for all those old windsurfers under the house.

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
16 Dec 2008 12:05PM
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Whoaa, horsey !.... ^^^

phrase
WA, 228 posts
16 Dec 2008 12:24PM
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Mmmm now that kind of tandem kiting I can enjoy!

Years ago I used to go and watch a mate compete in motocross. There used to be kids there racing as young as five. And I don`t mean just scooting along. They go quite fast and some of the crashes were pretty hard. I`m sure even with all the protective gear every once in a while one would have to go to hospital. Does that make those parents irresponsible?
A friend of mine is exactly the opposite. He wrapps his kids up in so much cotton wool it`s unbelievable. No skate boards allowed, hardly ever takes them down to the beach because even playing in the shallows is dangerous according to him.
Because he is such a big wooss his kids are not enjoying what life is about, getting out there, getting dirty and doing what most kids love, a bit of ruff and tumble.
This topic can go on forever. You want your kids to have fun and I`m sure there`s always an element of risk. It`s just knowing where to draw the line and that`s all about good parenting.

bobjaan
WA, 314 posts
16 Dec 2008 12:36PM
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Don't be a bunch of Kill Joys.

Taking out a kid on your kite is safe given the conditions and surroundings are right.

I take my nephew out all the time, he is 10 mind, has a life jacket on and only stands in between my legs so that not attached.

I only ride in water he can stand in.

But please do way up risks, 4 I think is too young, they can't swim too well and strapping them to you is not clever if something goes wrong. They do need easy get out clause that they can be in control of, otherwise risks are greater of something going wrong.

Common sense is what is needed in all situation, but unfortunately I don't think everyone has the same opinion on this.

And I really belive some people are natural victims, cause there always seems to be the same people that I need to rescue all the time.

Now I am not saying nothing goes wrong with me ever, I have had lines snap and leading edge burst, but I know how to get out of that situation, and I don't panic.

The people you need to worry about are those gumbies that panic when they are out of their control zone.

Have fun with your kids, but don't take Unnecessary risks.

colinwill78
VIC, 1395 posts
16 Dec 2008 3:12PM
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What would Chuck Norris do??

Cezar
VIC, 270 posts
16 Dec 2008 3:31PM
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Even Chuck Noris would put the bloody PFD on poor dog

gavo
WA, 127 posts
16 Dec 2008 1:42PM
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phrase said...

I`m so glad my parents were how they were and not the type that wanted to keep me wrapped up in cotton wool. My dad was always doing "stupid" crazy things with my brother and I. And we loved it!
I know there is the other side to the argument, things can go wrong etc. But personally I wouldn`t have wanted it any other way. And I think it`s made me the person I am today, no not stupid and reckless just fun and outgoing, enjoy life to the fullest.
My experience with kids, especially quite young ones is that if they don`t want to do something you`ll know it (they scream their heads off, cry etc.)
I think it goes without saying, you`re not going to start doing crazy tricks with your kid on your back (my dad probably would have), or under dodgey wind, sea conditions. Just a little cruise not too far out and back. And you obviously wont launch and land with littleone on your back.


Mate Im so with you on this...Ive been looking for a way for my kids to enjoy the sport as well..there are so many parents out there who are all about wrapping up there kids in cotton wool, trying to protect them from all the 'dangers' out there!!!

Im the 1st to realise that things can go wrong kiting as Ive had my fair share, so I know my limits and I would definitely know the limits taking my kids for a ride.

It just makes me laugh with all the negative crap that goes on this forum!!!! Im so glad there was no internet when I was a kid, didnt have to be subjected to everyones negative outlook on such a positive sport.

Good onya ruffryder, piff all the negatives out there, hang loose and enjoy your groms.

poor relative
WA, 9089 posts
16 Dec 2008 1:46PM
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If i were you i'd only do it at night.

Cezar
VIC, 270 posts
16 Dec 2008 3:51PM
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Perhaps we should all start riding with kids strapped to our backs- new sdtyle of kiteboarding???????.



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"TANDEM KITING (with the little ones)" started by ruffryder61