The plastic lugs are not missing - a lot went missing with the missile failure. The setup was as per instruction. I regularly look at this and there was no evidence of imminent failure, the rope is not frayed at all. I must admit that I did not disassemble the mechanism to look at the anchorage points, that is a time consuming thing to do. My fault - I doubt it - there is no manufacture specific inspection instructions nor suggested replacement intervals.
There is another problem I have had. With my Ocean Rodeo 14.5 kite it has occasionally disconnected from the hook, most dangerously on land when holding at the 12 o'clock position. I do not have the issue with my North 12 and 10m kites. The Ocean Rodeo has a soft stick (to be polite) on the chicken loop, with the hook design and flexible fixing point of the Dynabar at the vertical position it can and does want to open. A deeper or more curved hook would probably eliminate this issue.
On looking elsewhere on this site it seems that many have illustrated methods to have secondary failsafe devices - pity I did not see them. It would suggest that a few others have had or perceived this as a potential problem. I've perused some of the solutions and worry that they'd even work, or become a danger in there own right. The manufacturer needs to provide one, that has had the proper rigorous engineering and testing applied.
I have briefly looked at other sites for Dyneema failure. Mountaineering sites are good ones. They are using 8 through 11mm ropes and can get failure see http://dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/knotting-dyneema-vid/ . Is the rope on the Dynabar simply too undersized for the job ? There are a number of other factors to consider. The rope passes into a hole at close to 75 to 90 degrees to the length of the rope. Protection against fraying is a thin plastic sheath, which in itself provides a pinch point. There should be a radius for direction change, the greater the better, in this design it is a pinch point. Inspection on the underside is made difficult because of the disassembly complexity, if due to the narrow radius there is internal fibre failure, visual inspection would show nothing. A better design would be to have a system where the rope is anchored on the outside of the bar.
Dyneema rope simply snaps, and I've witnessed a dangerous result on my person. With a short rope there is no elasticity for dynamic load, and Dyneema has stretch anyway. For those who own and love the Dynabar, don't be cavalier, take whatever steps is necessary to prevent a similar incident from occuring to you. I'll be examining the steel runner option for the time being, if I go back to rope it will be with 10mm cord with a Ronstan pulley to provide radius.
I've used my dynabar for 2 years with no problem. Even with the rope distressingly frayed.
Then my buddy finally gets one after my raving, and he breaks 2 ropes in 2 sessions:
(1) plastic grommet failure -- with the load on rope, cuts through in no time.
(2) some kind of failure with the roller not working, causing wear, yadda yadda (my buddy does tend to invoke Murphy's Law with his gear)
Gear failure leading to swimming can happen with any system. Broken harness hooks. Broken chicken loops. Broken lines. That's a part of kiting and why you don't kite farther than you can swim! Sounds like you got double unlucky though with breaking your kite leash at same time. Good to hear you recovered your kite.
Would thicker dyneema actually have helped in your situation? Seems a sharp edge will cut that in no time.
May want to check out this thread for some ideas....some good DIY stuff there.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/Dont-show-us-your-hook/?page=1
2 hrs into my first sesh on my new dynabar v8.
Is it too hard to make a bush that flexs and not cracks.?
Mr Dynabar could send me a hand ful of replacements
So my dyneema doesnt get fk,d over...
Some spares would have been the idea in with the kit
What are they worth $1 for 100.
How about it JAYSTORE?
Would you like to keep a customer or 2 ?
Such a good product should not be let down by a 1 cent bush.
A formal reply would be nice.
Select to expand quotepearl said..
^^^^your fault for not changing rope^^^^^
You also look to be missing the plastic lugs that protect the rope from wearing in the frame of the dynabar. It's important to replace them if they are split or missing. You can see wear in this spot you just need to pull rope through from back to inspect.
Same thing happened to me.
The rope was 3 sessions in.
Fairly sure the plastic lug failed and the rope cut on the metal.
So for him replacing the rope earlier may not have helped.
Never got spare lugs in my kit.
+1
The lug splits, the split bit is sharp and cuts the rope.
I've had a better run since using knotted dyneema straight through the metal holes with no lugs! Not recommended apparently, but I can't be bothered chucking new lugs back in for the same result!
Great concept though...
i have the v7. when i read this post i replaced the rope and the black plastic cover. a few session later the black plastic have crack again. i checked the hole for sharp edges but is it smooth . the new rope looks like the old rope after a few sessions. i don't jump may be is one of the reason my rope hasn't break. i love the system.
my plastic lugs cracked too. I ended up just filing the holes so they were smooth and just run the dyneema through on it's own. No issues. Took maybe ten minutes. Not a fan of the plastic lugs...for obvious reasons
We are testing some grommets made in PVC instead of PA66. PVC is more flexible and should work better.
When you see the crack in the grommet you should turn it and use the good side.
We are also testing this configuration, can you notice anything wrong?
Select to expand quoteGreenarrowz said..
2 hrs into my first sesh on my new dynabar v8.
Is it too hard to make a bush that flexs and not cracks.?
Mr Dynabar could send me a hand ful of replacements
So my dyneema doesnt get fk,d over...
Some spares would have been the idea in with the kit
What are they worth $1 for 100.
How about it JAYSTORE?
Would you like to keep a customer or 2 ?
Such a good product should not be let down by a 1 cent bush.
A formal reply would be nice.Select to expand quoteyendor said..pearl said..
^^^^your fault for not changing rope^^^^^
You also look to be missing the plastic lugs that protect the rope from wearing in the frame of the dynabar. It's important to replace them if they are split or missing. You can see wear in this spot you just need to pull rope through from back to inspect.
Same thing happened to me.
The rope was 3 sessions in.
Fairly sure the plastic lug failed and the rope cut on the metal.
So for him replacing the rope earlier may not have helped.
Never got spare lugs in my kit.
We sold few thousands of DYNABARs and we had few problems like this, as we explained the hole edge could be the problem and we will smooth it in next deliveries.
We are working on material as explained above and we will soon send new grommets to Australian resellers.
To let you know, if you change type of plastic the mould could not work and a new one must be produced, but we hope not...
i have the v 7. I can see the safety ring is on a separate rope. Could the hook and the second rope get tangle?
This configuration has been used since 2010-2011, what kind of tangle you mean? There is no way the sliding hook can tangle the second rope.
Select to expand quotejaystore said..
...can you notice anything wrong?
Could be hard to hook back in to that...
Repying to JAY.
see below for my current set up. The bungee cord was removed because the grommets cracked. When I got the bar from kite power it didn't have the two rope like the picture above. I like your product is simple. Having two ropes (one that has the hook and the other that has the ring) may or may not cause the hook to tangle when you are been tumble by the white water.
the hook on your picture is set up wrong . cheers
Select to expand quotejaystore said..
We are testing some grommets made in PVC instead of PA66. PVC is more flexible and should work better.
When you see the crack in the grommet you should turn it and use the good side.
We are also testing this configuration, can you notice anything wrong?
I recently swapped over the Powerwave bar to the dyneema line. It's just too much hardware and one ding to many on my surfboard. The simplicity of the line is a plus, and it's "surfboard" friendly. Unlike the metal bar however, it's prone to failure no matter what anyone says. With a myriad of unforeseen things that can go wrong on the water, I don't need to add to that list and or worry about something else.
All said, I like your idea of using grommets instead of ferrels. Better still is having two separate lines as in your photo. The second line, the one used for the sliding leash, can serve as a backup in the event of your main line breaking. Just attach your chicken loop to the new line and continue riding. I like redundant systems.
Select to expand quotejaystore said..
Greenarrowz said..
2 hrs into my first sesh on my new dynabar v8.
Is it too hard to make a bush that flexs and not cracks.?
Mr Dynabar could send me a hand ful of replacements
So my dyneema doesnt get fk,d over...
Some spares would have been the idea in with the kit
What are they worth $1 for 100.
How about it JAYSTORE?
Would you like to keep a customer or 2 ?
Such a good product should not be let down by a 1 cent bush.
A formal reply would be nice.
yendor said..
pearl said..
^^^^your fault for not changing rope^^^^^
You also look to be missing the plastic lugs that protect the rope from wearing in the frame of the dynabar. It's important to replace them if they are split or missing. You can see wear in this spot you just need to pull rope through from back to inspect.
Same thing happened to me.
The rope was 3 sessions in.
Fairly sure the plastic lug failed and the rope cut on the metal.
So for him replacing the rope earlier may not have helped.
Never got spare lugs in my kit.
We sold few thousands of DYNABARs and we had few problems like this, as we explained the hole edge could be the problem and we will smooth it in next deliveries.
We are working on material as explained above and we will soon send new grommets to Australian resellers.
To let you know, if you change type of plastic the mould could not work and a new one must be produced, but we hope not...
When and where can I get new lugs.
I need minimum of four.
Also my roller for the rope is worn out, but can't find them for sale anywhere.
Spare parts are lacking.
I was wanting to try a sliding hook setup with my seat harness as I was really struggling to ride toeside.
So I started making my DIY alternative when a V7 Dynabar came up on ebay for $70.00.
My setup only came with the lace/rope, which was a little stretched, making it very difficult for me to reach my above the bar depower. Once I added another knot into the rope and shortened it a wee bit I have never looked back.
I am really digging the Dynabar and like many others cannot see myself going back to a fixed hook anytime soon.
Now the cheeky bit.... I would like to try the freeride and prowave bars but don't want to buy them then decide I prefer the rope. To that end does anyone in Melbourn have one I could borrow? If I like it I would buy it from you if you wanted to sell it. Thanks
Select to expand quotehorace01 said..
Now the cheeky bit.... I would like to try the freeride and prowave bars but don't want to buy them then decide I prefer the rope. To that end does anyone in Melbourn have one I could borrow? If I like it I would buy it from you if you wanted to sell it. Thanks
Yeah pretty sure I have both the freeride and prowave bars I could send down.
If you like them you can keep them for free, otherwise just post them back.
PM me your address.
Select to expand quoteGreenarrowz said..
I wouldn't even bother after using my set up with no issues for many sessions.
To late mate.
Great idea. Looks OEM too. Well done.
Select to expand quotedamageddad said..
Snap shackle as I dont unhook and obviously cant weld.
im no engineer but if I was you I would not attach both my safety leash and chicken loop on the same fixing that's also happens to be (after reading all these posts) possibly the weakest point on the setup.
Select to expand quotehorace01 said..
I was wanting to try a sliding hook setup with my seat harness as I was really struggling to ride toeside.
So I started making my DIY alternative when a V7 Dynabar came up on ebay for $70.00.
My setup only came with the lace/rope, which was a little stretched, making it very difficult for me to reach my above the bar depower. Once I added another knot into the rope and shortened it a wee bit I have never looked back.
I am really digging the Dynabar and like many others cannot see myself going back to a fixed hook anytime soon.
Now the cheeky bit.... I would like to try the freeride and prowave bars but don't want to buy them then decide I prefer the rope. To that end does anyone in Melbourn have one I could borrow? If I like it I would buy it from you if you wanted to sell it. Thanks
Don't bother! I found the bar to be quite clunky and the whole sliding motion quite noticeable, if that makes sense. (Still loved the freedom it offered).. I've just got back in from my first session on the rope and boy what a difference. It felt so natural and the sliding motion so smooth, I literally forgot it was even there. Stick with the rope!
Select to expand quoteMrknownothing said..
horace01 said..
Now the cheeky bit.... I would like to try the freeride and prowave bars but don't want to buy them then decide I prefer the rope. To that end does anyone in Melbourn have one I could borrow? If I like it I would buy it from you if you wanted to sell it. Thanks
Don't bother! I found the bar to be quite clunky and the whole sliding motion quite noticeable, if that makes sense. (Still loved the freedom it offered).. I've just got back in from my first session on the rope and boy what a difference. It felt so natural and the sliding motion so smooth, I literally forgot it was even there. Stick with the rope!
Now see I'm the opposite, I've been using the free ride bar for about 4 years, after about 2.sessions I stopped noticing the hook move. What I like over the rope is the feel is consistent every time, there is no stretching of the rope, and no wear to worry about, And the hook settles nicely into the centre position of the bar when using a TT even when boosting which I prefer. I swap between my surf board and TT about every 30 minutes over a session and this has been the perfect solution.
We are following this topic by taking all wise advices and... Wednesday we are flying to Cape Verde to test some new FTC WingedPad and PowerBand and also these 3 solutions to limit dyneema leash damage.
The first is using 2 eye nuts with a double safe splice dyneema, the second a grommet in PVC and the third Greenarrowz solution :)
As soon as we came back we will let you know our best choice.
Thanks for supporting us.
^^^^^
Sounds like a good idea to do some more testing...great place to do it as well!
Not trying to discourage you - the Dynabar is so much better than a fixed hook, however....
There has to be a better way than extending the rope even more forward and away from the body - with eye bolts and shackles - as shown on the top and bottom photos. Which make it more clunky!
Having the rope go through the hole (as in the middle photo) is the best for performance. The problems being that the rope has been breaking (on the V8) and isn't visible to inspect. However this didn't seem to be a problem with the V7?
Re-tensioning the rope needs to be addressed.
If the rope went back through a hole in a composite carbon fibre bar, which would be thick enough to not cut the rope - like the stainless steel bars have been; and went back to an integrated cleat on the back of the bar - that allowed visible inspection and easy re-tensioning....
Maybe this could be V9?
